MMRPG's, FPS's etc - Griefing..fun or childish

[Tefal]

I find it really weird that all the mmo people seem to find killing the enemy Griefing :/


The best Griefing however is always done against your own team, like persuading all of the people on your side to rush garage and lob a flash bang into them just as they turn the corner so they all get mowed down.

Or spraying the flame thrower in front of a sniper on tf2.

 

[ins0mn1ac]

Ah but Red = Dead isnt necessarily griefing, its simply pvping.

Yeah granted, but my point being, no matter the situation as in me being say lvl 80 and you lvl 5, I'm going to kill you and perhaps kill you again for fun. I've had it happen to me or seen it happen so I'm just passing on the fun. I do see that as griefing.

Something else thats a little bit of a favourite to me, back in the SOF2 days me and a friend would block the doorway in Shop2 and throw smoke/flash nades everywhere, was a great way to annoy people but very ****ish

 

[Tombstone]

Yeah granted, but my point being, no matter the situation as in me being say lvl 80 and you lvl 5, I'm going to kill you and perhaps kill you again for fun. I've had it happen to me or seen it happen so I'm just passing on the fun. I do see that as griefing.

Yeah, I dont see that as griefing, thats just pvp. I would do the same and I would expect you to do so if you saw me too.

Technically speaking, I am roleplaying so I cannot tell what level someone is anyway (one of the differences between Roleplaying and Metagaming ) , I simply see an enemy and attack it.

 

[Deadbeat]

When I was young I used to grief all the time in HL1-based games. Used to TK, spam stuff over voice comm with HLSS, use hacks etc.

I remember in Natural Selection whenever I could get comm I would instantly sell everything, and then spam med packs till I ran out of money lol.

I grew out of it years ago but I don't really regret it, it's hardly a crime is it.

I never ganked in WoW though, always /waved or /saluted enemy players.

The little WoW I played saw me mostly /sexy and /spoon players. Used to get the weirdest comments.

 

[skullman]

I'm not suggesting anyone go around and 'sort out' anyone else

Well I'm quoting Tombstone here: 'real names', 'home addresses' and 'the sheer fear of real consequences' with 'venom and anger'. I dunno, maybe I misinterpreted.

Yes it is annoying and childish if some team mate is chucking flashbangs in front of you on purpose, but you were expecting what? Your playing on a public server! Join a clan and organise some proper games. Another example: some hunter on WoW pulls some insane dragon boss thing into stormwind that annihilates everyone (which I used to find quite hilarious even if I died along with them!) Theres far too many culprits and different variations out there to be managed by some sort of Grieving Police Force.

 

[Tombstone]

Well I'm quoting Tombstone here: 'real names', 'home addresses' and 'the sheer fear of real consequences' with 'venom and anger'. I dunno, maybe I misinterpreted.

Even I wasnt advocating physical violence, I was merely pointing out the fundamental difference between "griefing" someone when there is no way they can retaliate and doing the same when the person you are doing it to has the chance to be face to face with you. As I say, most, if not all, of the people who take such pleasure from ingame griefing wouldnt dare do the same if there was any chance of any kind of repercussion for their acts. It is the inherent anonymity which expands their bravado. Remove that anonymity and suddenly theres an enormous drop in griefing because of peoples fears about what would happen if people actually knew who they were.

If you like its similar, to those people who have 2 usernames for forums. One that they behave themselves with and one which they use to login as whenever they want to muck about or do something which might get them banned.

To give you a real life example of anonymity and how it "enhances" bravado. A couple of months ago some teen threw a shoe at my front door, not just a shoe, but a shoe which was on fire (guess they used a lighter or something). Anyway, they threw it and immediately ran off. Now I'm sure they thought it was absolutely hilarious, probably laughed their heads off about it for ages and ages, was probably one of those things they look back on and say how "fun" it was. Question is....if their bravado was all that, wouldnt it have been even more hilarious if instead of throwing it and running away in the darkness...they had walked up, rung the doorbell, waited for me to answer and then throw it into the open doorway? That surely would have been even more hilarious to them, so I find myself wondering why they didnt? Reason that comes up in my mind, because then they would have lost the anonymity of who it was who did it and its vastly more amusing to do something when the target cannot respond. Perhaps they dont quite have the bravado that they undoubtedly expressed to their mates the next day. Repercussions.

but you were expecting what? Your playing on a public server!

See now isnt that just a sad statement on the standards of people though? That if its a public server you expect people to behave like asses? I dont know about anyone else, but I find that a shame. Then again I like to see the best in people, just a pity that more people dont think the same. But as I say, its largely down to the anonymity, if I go to the snooker club , people dont wander around the club just knocking peoples snooker balls about. Why not you ask? Repercussions.

 

[skullman]

See now isnt that just a sad statement on the standards of people though? That if its a public server you expect people to behave like asses? I dont know about anyone else, but I find that a shame.

Welcome to Earth

Of course its a shame and it shouldnt be that way, but I dont think naming and shaming would make any real impact too be honest. We're talking about computer gaming, not crime.

********* are always going to find a way to vent their frustrations. I'd rather they did it in video games than on the streets.

 

[Tombstone]

I'd rather they did it in video games than on the streets.

I'd rather they didnt do it anywhere, but as you say, it is Earth and thats simply how people are. (which as I say is in itself a sad comment on the way things are)

You are right too about naming and shaming, it is essentially pointless in gaming, as the person simply rolls another character and nobody is any the wiser. (different in real life though of course, there people should always be named and shamed. Annoyed me no end when the killers of jamie bulger were given new identities).

 

[skullman]

I first started online gaming during the late 90's when I discovered Wireplay. The community was much more mature & friendlier back then - there were still idiots about but nothing like it is today.

 

[Gazb]

I think Team Roomba's TF2 griefing is hilarious Youtube it!

Out of all the griefing you'll see, Team Roomba's TF2 griefing really is the funniest. I mean the pop quiz for before letting people out of the spawn door was pure genius.

 

[Gazb]

I first started online gaming during the late 90's when I discovered Wireplay. The community was much more mature & friendlier back then - there were still idiots about but nothing like it is today.

Yeah, wireplay and gamespy3d/arcade at the start had fantastic communities.

 

[MaX_PoWah]

Surely SWG was the ultimate griefing game, the sheer randomness of the stuff that used to go on in that game was immense...

You would get some Bounty hunter (BH) turn up to try and kill a Jedi, he would attack the Jedi who was in a group with you then all the lot of you would get what’s called a Group Tef (Group Temporary enemy flag) against the BH and anybody else in his group (basically the ability to attack anyone in that group), add to that the group you were in might have been attacking something big (like an ancient Krayt dragon or something) and the ensuing chaos was crazy, people running about everywhere attacking everyone.. Then there was saber tef (basically if you got your light saber out everyone from the opposing faction could attack you)

A similar thing would occur when you attacked an Imperial or Rebel NPC as you would be flagged as an enemy combatant and everyone could attack you, but obviously when people saw what happened everyone jumped in to battle as well.

It was awesome! You could do as you say as well by dragging really high level Jedi NPC’s into populated areas and it would just slaughter everything for up to an hour sometimes before people would turn up to try and kill it.

Obviously though you can imagine the complaints by players who eventually became known as “Carebears” who wanted to be as they describe it “involved” with the Galactic civil war or play as a Jedi without anything bad ever happening to them and wined and wined whenever they ended up involved in player Vs player combat.

 

[Tombstone]

Obviously though you can imagine the complaints by players who eventually became known as “Carebears” who wanted to be as they describe it “involved” with the Galactic civil war or play as a Jedi without anything bad ever happening to them and wined and wined whenever they ended up involved in player Vs player combat.

To be fair, the term Carebears existed many many many years before SWG as a derogatory (now theres a surprise) way of describing people who dont like non-consensual PvP.

As I say though, PvP isnt griefing imo. Nor do I see any way that PvP can be griefing. Even a level 100 killing a level 3 isnt griefing if its done in PvP and within the acceptable rules of the game without using exploits.

However, if the level 100 was to block a doorway so that his faction mates couldnt enter a specific building in a game with some form of collision detection (something that often happened in UO), now thats griefing.

 

[xaldub]

I completely agree with your opinions on griefing Tombstone. Unfortunately, MMORPGs are plagued by it nowadays - which is the sole reason I no longer play them. So many closet sociopaths out there ! ( and no, it's not roleplaying for the majority that "grief" - it demonstrates a dualism in their personalities - a latent need to lash out against society ).

 

[MaX_PoWah]

To be fair, the term Carebears existed many many many years before SWG as a derogatory (now theres a surprise) way of describing people who dont like non-consensual PvP.

I think the argument in SWG was that the game revolved around a galactic civil war and people seemed to think they had this right to go round getting "involved" with absolutely no consequences, either that or they were simply too daft to realise that there would be consequences.

Regardless it was this line of thought that started the dumbing down of the game from something challenging and engaging which rewarded time spent understanding what was going on - to them eventually making jedi on par with every other proffession (apart from the apparently obvious logic that a star wars game MUST involve everyone having lightsabers)

 

[ins0mn1ac]

heh the good ol' DJK at Dant MO

 

[MaX_PoWah]

heh the good ol' DJK at Dant MO

That and when they had that gcw revamp which kept dropping elite stormtroopers into the middle of populated areas.. fun times

 

[ChrisJSY]

Yeah granted, but my point being, no matter the situation as in me being say lvl 80 and you lvl 5, I'm going to kill you and perhaps kill you again for fun.

Fine line between that being pvp and griefing.

See I don't attack low level players because:
1; It takes no skill, you already know the outcome
2; Usually no reward
3; Makes you look like just as much a "carebear" as someone who does not pvp, picking on targets you know you can handle.


So, you kill them in all of 1 second and you call that fun? Really?
Then camp them, clearly as you killed them again?

Cheap kicks I say, makes you look like a bit of a prat (hey who cares, nobody knows you) but that's okay if you can't play on a level playing field.


The only time I killed a low level player was when, I was say "20" and a "40" kept spawn killing me, some time passed and I hit "60" and it seemed this player quit playing and remained around 40, so I did the same back to him

I don't go out and ruin oher peoples gameplay unless they have to me previously. I don't pick on lower level people, or grief.

I guess because I was bullied in real life, my concious stops me from being a **** to other people, because I know behind the character is another person, I will damned pvp my best and kill anyone and anything in my level range but picking on lowbies is just, corwardly.

I don't care if you can, it just is
Many mmos eventually bring in changes to help counter stuff like this.

I actually had to stop playing a character once because the server/areawas renouned for havng high level, lowbie killers, I had a job and little time to play, I want open pvp for my level not a PVM server, however there was nothing to stop the harrassing. Don't tell me "if the game allows to, then it's ok".
I can't do anything back, not even the most skilled player in the world can do anything to counter it, it's like trying to win a fight against a grizzly bear, blind-folded and hands tied.


PS. If this post lacks paragraphs, I'm not fixing it, I can clearly see I've written them out here, it happens on 6 pcs I use to post on ocuk on multiple browsers