Soldato
I don't think he gained an advantage - the place was already his so there was nothing to yield.
I didn't see the Perez incident.
I didn't see the Perez incident.
Monaco Grand Prix 2016, Monte Carlo - Race 6/21
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
Soldato
Agreed. Regardless of what strategic SNAFUs RB has pulled on Ricciardo so far this year, calling him into pit when the tyres are still in the garage is totally unacceptable.
Caporegime
Huh. I missed that. They're normally super strict about that.
Several other drivers did the same; it seems they weren't penalising for a single offence. Probably the right decision, IMO.
Caporegime
Has there been any word on what happened? I wondered whether there was a last minute change of mind on which tyres to use or something?
I read that it was a last minute change on what tyres they wanted to put on. Christian Horner also said that the garages were too small and on different levels so it was harder to get the tyres there quickly. Which is why every other team suffered this same issue. Oh no wait...
I read that it was a last minute change on what tyres they wanted to put on. Christian Horner also said that the garages were too small and on different levels so it was harder to get the tyres there quickly. Which is why every other team suffered this same issue. Oh no wait...
Either the pit crew brought the wrong tyres out initially and realised too late or they simply weren't aware that ric was pitting that lap and that blame would fall on the pit wall.
Man of Honour
Maybe they deemed the wet pit exit, and with coming out on slicks, it was difficult to avoid the line. They've been pretty slam dunk in the past when it comes to line breeches so it seems odd they would miss this, unless they had a reason like stated.
I saw this incident and thought hmmm wonder if he'll get away with that because of the conditions/too much else going on.
The offence is to leave the track and gain an advantage. When he entered the corner he was ahead of Ricciardo and after missing the corner he was alongside, so he didn't gain any advantage, he lost time from it.
The FIA don't penalise everyone who crosses a white line (although they are particularly lapse in some cases).
If I was Rosberg I wouldn't have let Hamilton past. He was looking almost a sure bet for the WCC until this weekend.
I don't think that has been discussed in this thread. Would Hamilton if the positions were reversed? Admittedly Hamilton has less to lose this season disobeying the order.
I don't think that has been discussed in this thread. Would Hamilton if the positions were reversed? Admittedly Hamilton has less to lose this season disobeying the order.
Soldato
I think he would have done in the same situation in the same race. There's clearly been a 'conversation' behind closed doors.
Soldato
Devil's advocate but that depends on their definition of advantage. If yours and the FIA definition is purely to gain/not lose a position, or get faster time then fine.
My definition of advantage would, like many others, include the fact that to make it around that corner correctly, he would have had to break even harder causing a flat spot (requiring pit stop maybe), plus he would have slowed even more, losing even more time and possibly giving DR an easier chance of a pass.
But yeah, they aren't consistent with similar incidents, so why anyone would expect consistency season wide, well meh
.The dirty air would have meant that Hamilton's car was sliding around more, which doesn't warm the tyres, but damages them instead. As for a slight loss of cooling air, that won't help raise the brake temperature by the 100 or so degrees required for them to work.
The problem with the tyres later in the race was due to the compound being completely unsuitable for the track temperature, or have you forgotten that the car was running the purple ultra softs which actually require a hotter temperature to operate correctly than the super softs.
Caporegime
It would be stupid of Rosberg to alienate his team at this point in the championship; there's a lot of races ahead.
If Rosberg was as obviously faster than him, and he was shedding time like crazy to the car ahead? Yeah, I think he would have. The only time I know of that Hamilton refused the order was when Rosberg was failing to even get onto his back wing.
I think given that rosberg has done it for him and if hamilton was losing that much time he would.
That being said if we're 5 races to go in the championship and they're both vying for points probably not, but then I suspect rosberg wouldn't either. As above it's early doors in the season.
That being said if we're 5 races to go in the championship and they're both vying for points probably not, but then I suspect rosberg wouldn't either. As above it's early doors in the season.
Soldato
Tyre wear isn't an issue at Monaco, it's thermal degradation (normally). There was no tyre damage at all in the race - even the wet tyres held in and Hamilton's looked almost as good as new when he stopped, even after running around on a dry track. There weren't even any marbles this year, that's how little the tyres were wearing or graining.
Even if Hamtilons's brakes were only 10 degrees higher than Rosberg's he can brake harder, getting more temperature, then at the next corner harder again and so on, gradually ramping up the temperature and thus that of the tyres. If Rosberg wasn't able to get over that hill then he was only going to go slower until was on a more suitable tyre and able to stress the brakes a bit more.
Hamilton is a better driver in the wet than Rosberg, but he's not 5 seconds a lap better.
Ooh, someone's get a bee in their bonnet.
The ultra-softs do apparently like a higher temperature for peak performance, but presumably the reason Mercedes chose them is because they wouldn't be able to get the other tyres up to any temperature anytime soon, let alone reaching the peak operating temperature. The other teams that chose the ultra (albeit only the lower-end teams) didn't seem to have the same problem or not to the extent Mercedes did of losing 10 seconds a lap initially.
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Caporegime
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Tyre wear isn't an issue at Monaco, it's thermal degradation (normally). There was no tyre damage at all in the race - even the wet tyres held in and Hamilton's looked almost as good as new when he stopped, even after running around on a dry track. There weren't even any marbles this year, that's how little the tyres were wearing or graining.
Even if Hamtilons's brakes were only 10 degrees higher than Rosberg's he can brake harder, getting more temperature, then at the next corner harder again and so on, gradually ramping up the temperature and thus that of the tyres. If Rosberg wasn't able to get over that hill then he was only going to go slower until was on a more suitable tyre and able to stress the brakes a bit more.
Hamilton is a better driver in the wet than Rosberg, but he's not 5 seconds a lap better.
Ooh, someone's get a bee in their bonnet.
The ultra-softs do apparently like a higher temperature for peak performance, but presumably the reason Mercedes chose them is because they wouldn't be able to get the other tyres up to any temperature anytime soon, let alone reaching the peak operating temperature. The other teams that chose the ultra (albeit only the lower-end teams) didn't seem to have the same problem or not to the extent Mercedes did of losing 10 seconds a lap initially.
They all did, the operating temp really doesn't mean all that much, it's the window. In colder conditions a tire with a wider working range is what is needed. Ultras, supersofts and mediums have narrow working ranges by design, soft and medium have a higher working range. So you get to say 110C the softs and hards would already be in the working range and do fine right up to 130C, but the ultras want say 125-135C, the softs hit 110C way before the ultras were hitting 125C.
Hamilton had a 101 second outlap, Perez and Ricciardo were about a 94, Hamilton's second lap was a 90 or so.
Ultra was in every way the worst choice for the conditions, Monaco is about track position, outlap/undercut is the primary way to overtake, after that only lasting to the end matters at all. Ultra's being the worst for both factors where soft would mean a far quicker outlap, the best undercut you're going to get and the best/easiest to push on for a longer stint. Ultra's dropped out of the window just dropping to VSC pace each time and with a tiny bit of rain at the end hurt Rosberg more as well. If Rosberg was on softs or supersofts he'd not have lost the place at the end.
If Ricciardo didn't have a terrible pitstop the call for ultras would have cost Merc a 1st and 6th place finish.
Entertaining race for Monaco
Impressed no one called out the real SC post started
Obviously would have been boring as anything without the rain
Really scuppered rosbergs advantage .. And that team order could well cost him the WDC
Shame for Riccardo.
That is two races in a row the team have cost him.
They should have stuck with the tyres they brought out.
I really don't understand how that situa can even happen!
Impressed no one called out the real SC post started
Obviously would have been boring as anything without the rain
Really scuppered rosbergs advantage .. And that team order could well cost him the WDC
Shame for Riccardo.
That is two races in a row the team have cost him.
They should have stuck with the tyres they brought out.
I really don't understand how that situa can even happen!