Poll: Monaco Grand Prix 2018, Monte Carlo - Race 6/21

[Deleted member 651465]

^ I laughed

Tbh I’d be happy if they simply took away the “must use two compounds” rule. At least then those who want to stretch a 0 stopper can, versus those that want to go hyper, hyper, hyper.

Monaco is a bad example but I think Canada would benefit from a variety of strategies as there are good overtaking opportunities and the circuit is longer than a mars bar.

 

[jonneymendoza]

You can't go 7-8 seconds faster with a car in your way though?

If it was that easy to overtake then he would have, however the very real risk of hitting either the other car or the wall was outweighed by championship points for a 2nd place.

Max likely would have gone for more overtakes as would normally have had nothing to lose (but in this case needed to have a clean race)

But then how did max overtake half the field then?

they were not that slow!

 

[GravyMonster]

He may have gotten past 'half the field' but only really made moves on 3 of them.

He got past Magnussen and Grosjean off the line. Ericsson and Stroll a couple of laps later; granted the Ericsson pass was a nice move. Hartley let him through as he had front wing damage and couldn't do anything. Then he sat on the same tyres for 2/3s of the race, only really gaining positions when people had issues (Sirotkin) or pitted before him (everyone else). He then pitted in P9 and fell back to P11, and gained from Alonso's retirement and finally passing Sainz who was on knackered tyres to finish P9.

https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/27...-interactive-data-lap-charts-times-and-tyres/

The overriding point here is that he only moved up as far as he did because he ran so long before pitting. The moves he did make were done in the first 5 laps when others were still trying to get a feel for the grip level and find a rhythm.

You saw from the Sainz pass that it was hard work to overtake even a car whose tyres were finished and 4-5 seconds slower than you. This validates why none of the front runners pitted under the VSC. Sure you'd have fresh tyres and more grip, but around Monaco, that's meaningless.

 

[4K8KW10]

But then how did max overtake half the field then?

they were not that slow!

You are correct - in the same way how Max found a way through the field and showed that it was possible, Sebastian could have repeated it.
The average speed difference at any point on the circuit between laps 1:17:500 and 1:11:000 is the staggering 15 km/h - up to 170 km/h average speed down to 155 km/h average speed.
I feel that Sebastian has nothing to lose this year anymore - it is Hamilton's title to be lost.
Sebastian lost much more in Baku where he could have just waited for a more suitable moment for an attack, instead of trying to jump like a kangaroo with the cold boots.

 

[Yaayuh!]

But then how did max overtake half the field then?

they were not that slow!

To be fair, that's a little apples v oranges. A lot of the overtakes were not challenged as why would you risk it when you're a team that just wants to get into the points?

 

[4K8KW10]

To be fair, that's a little apples v oranges. Most of the overtakes were not challenged as why would you risk it when you're a team that just wants to get into the points?

This is untrue. Most of the time, Max was kept at bay. Otherwise, he could have finished even higher in the points.
There was some defending against him - especially that manouvre after the tunnel. It was just that the other guy obeyed the rules and stayed on the left, thus giving space to Max to take the outside position to the next corner!

 

[MooMoo444]

Ric would not have given Vettel the space even if he had the opportunity. He's got a smarter head on him. Elbows out and all.

 

[this_is_gav]

Think back to Montreal 2014, when Perez couldn't overtake Rosberg's MGU-K-less Mercedes. Perez was far quicker over a lap, but Rosberg was sufficiently quick in the corners to keep enough of a gap on the straights, so Perez couldn't get past.

When Ricciardo came up to Rosberg though it was easy pickings, as the Red Bull was around the same speed in the corners, and so could easily overtake Rosberg on the straight.

So even on a track where overtaking isn't overly difficult Perez couldn't get through as the ailing car was quick enough in the corners.

 

[aowc02]

probably the most boring race in the past few years :/

(would say decade but nothing beats Indianapolis - now that was an absolute travesty!)

 

[jonneymendoza]

Think back to Montreal 2014, when Perez couldn't overtake Rosberg's MGU-K-less Mercedes. Perez was far quicker over a lap, but Rosberg was sufficiently quick in the corners to keep enough of a gap on the straights, so Perez couldn't get past.

When Ricciardo came up to Rosberg though it was easy pickings, as the Red Bull was around the same speed in the corners, and so could easily overtake Rosberg on the straight.

So even on a track where overtaking isn't overly difficult Perez couldn't get through as the ailing car was quick enough in the corners.

lol if a car is quicker on the corners then the car is quicker overal! its not all about the straights!

 

[this_is_gav]

lol if a car is quicker on the corners then the car is quicker overal! its not all about the straights!

What are you on about?

Perez was much quicker over the lap (~2 seconds average IIRC), but couldn't stay near enough in the corners, so despite Rosberg's car suffering the same failure as Ricciardo suffered last weekend and Perez being far quicker he still couldn't overtake Rosberg, even on a track where overtaking is relatively easy.

 

[GravyMonster]

lol if a car is quicker on the corners then the car is quicker overal! its not all about the straights!

Think it through some more...

probably the most boring race in the past few years :/

(would say decade but nothing beats Indianapolis - now that was an absolute travesty!)

The Indianapolis debacle was more than a decade ago

 

[jonneymendoza]

What are you on about?

Perez was much quicker over the lap (~2 seconds average IIRC), but couldn't stay near enough in the corners, so despite Rosberg's car suffering the same failure as Ricciardo suffered last weekend and Perez being far quicker he still couldn't overtake Rosberg, even on a track where overtaking is relatively easy.

but surely his faster in straights and would have gained then?

 

[this_is_gav]

but surely his faster in straights and would have gained then?

Yes, but sometimes it's just that difficult to follow in F1. A car slower around the corners (Perez/Vettel) was losing more following another car (Rosberg/Ricciardo) than it was gaining in the straights (remember Rosberg's car was still far quicker in the corners than Perez's Force India). But as Ricciardo's Red Bull was faster in the corners than Perez he was able to keep up with Rosberg sufficiently to be close enough on the straight, and after that it was easy pickings.

Conversely in the same race Ricciardo didn't have the straight-line speed to overtake Perez when they were caught up behind Rosberg, so if Perez's brakes hadn't failed in the last couple of laps Rosberg would almost certainly have won, despite being much slower than the cars behind him - a touch of Jarama 1981 to it (which is considered Gilles Villeneuve's greatest win).

I'm not saying Montreal 2014 is the same as Monaco 2018, of course not, but it was just a way of highlighting how even a car 2 seconds quicker (which is the rate at which Perez caught Rosberg) couldn't overtake on a relatively easy track to overtake on, so there was no hope at all in Monaco, regardless of how much quicker Vettel was overall, as Ricciardo was still 4+ tenths quicker in the corners (likely more given the Red Bull's usual straight-line deficiency), and so Vettel couldn't get close enough before the straights.

If you can't remember it Montreal 2014 is worth another watch to see how it all unfolded - one of the most interesting races of the hybrid era, without being edge-of-your-seat exciting.

 

[aowc02]

Think it through some more...

The Indianapolis debacle was more than a decade ago

I know but it still hurts!