Monitor madness

[inverseSquare]

Hi all

I’m looking to replace my long-serving 17” crt screen, so I have been looking at the variety of LCD screens that are available and have reached a bit of an impasse.

I generally use my machine for graphics work (photo editing, 3D graphics, etc), but would also want to run games. So decent colour rendition would be important to me (but not £1200-pro-spec-monitor important)

I had been looking through the reviews of the Samsung SM226BW, it seems to be well regarded, offering fast response times and respectable colour display.
So I went to have a quick look at them in the local computer store to check before ordering online The screen looked ok, not as ‘bright’ as the LG screens next to it, but the colour looked ok.

This was before I looked at the whole ‘panel lottery’ issue - http://www.behardware.com/articles/667-1/samsung-226bw-a-and-s-series-the-verdict.html
So I cannot find out what ‘type’ of SM226BW I will be getting before it arrives ? That does seem slightly crazy
Even a high-street store would not be exactly understanding of you asking to connect up a bunch of their stock while you sift through the serial numbers

So, I guess im asking if its worth it ?
Would a different manufacturer offer a better chance of a decent screen ?
I’m seeing good things about the Dell Ultrasharp 2007WFP, but at 20”-widescreen would that not have a smaller screen height than my old 17”crt ? (and that also has a 16ms response time)

Finally, I overheard a store employee mention a replacement to the SM226BW, im guessing that is the SM226CW ?
So what are my chances of getting a ‘samsung’ Samsung SM226CW ? better than the 226BW ? Seems like a crazy question to have to ask

Any input is cheerfully appreciated.
My Budget is £200-300.

Thanks.

 

[MarkBald1989]

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MO-011-DE&groupid=17&catid=510&subcat=

 

[Mr_Orange]

I agree on the with Mark on the 2007wfp. Kickass monitor with great colours, wide viewing angles and fairly respectable gaming potential.

The response time is not the usual g2g time that most manufacturers quote. If i remember right the g2g time for this panel is ~8ms.
The size going from 17" shouldent be a problem. If it is the next biggest monitor that slays is the Dell 2407 for a few more £££

 

[Tosk]

for that price you can get a nice 22" with better specs
tho ive never been 1 for any think dell

 

[Mr_Orange]

22" screens all use TN panels (which in my opinion suck) with small viewing angles, infirior colour reproduction. They have an advantage in response time, thats it. So if you were after a pure gaming TFT then a TN panel may be an option. If not avoid like the plague. The Dell uses a S-IPS panel which I think is superior than TN.

Dell monitors are about the only Dell thing that I would buy, they really are good and any brand snobbery should really be checked when looking at them.

 

[skunksta]

Ye i got the a panel sometime back had a lot of messing but its fine now the 226bw.As said the colours on the dell are much better VA not much in it tbh as i have a 20" downstairs.But its a gaming lcd indeed like already said i would pick my dell over my samsung for dvd's well just about everything other than gaming.
But it puts my dell in its place gaming wise.Some of these older games run in dx7 (cod2) i pull 700 odd fps at times not stable fps but no ghosting unlike the dell it gets some.

 

[inverseSquare]

So all 22" screens will be using the TN type pannel ? I see.


The Dell 2007WFP is 'fairly respectable' for games ? I've only ever played games on a 17" CRT screen, would it be immediately noticeable to me ?

From wikipedia, the entry for the 2007WFP says:
"Serial Number ending with "L" = S-IPS panel. Serial Number ending with "S" = S-PVA panel."
Is there a preferred model ?

What would the height of the panel be on a 20" widescreen ?
I can find numbers for the physical hight of the monitor, but not the screen.


Thanks for your help

 

[C64]

You could always buy a viewsonic 19" crt new for £138 delivered
3 year warranty and it's black with 70 watts power consumption..

 

[Greebo]

So all 22" screens will be using the TN type pannel ? I see.


The Dell 2007WFP is 'fairly respectable' for games ? I've only ever played games on a 17" CRT screen, would it be immediately noticeable to me ?

From wikipedia, the entry for the 2007WFP says:
"Serial Number ending with "L" = S-IPS panel. Serial Number ending with "S" = S-PVA panel."
Is there a preferred model ?

What would the height of the panel be on a 20" widescreen ?
I can find numbers for the physical hight of the monitor, but not the screen.


Thanks for your help

The S-IPS panels are better IMO but the S-PVA are dam good in their own right. See Baddass's guide to tft types to see the major differences.

Height would be 10.6" on a 20" widescreen. Don't forget your 17" CRT will only be 16" visible so i;m guessing your current screen would be about 12.8" by 9.6" so a new 20" ws tft would be an inch taller and over 4" wider

A good site for comparisons of size is here:

http://tvcalculator.com/

As for me, I can recommend the NEC 20WGX

 

[Tosk]

22" screens all use TN panels (which in my opinion suck) with small viewing angles, infirior colour reproduction. They have an advantage in response time, thats it. So if you were after a pure gaming TFT then a TN panel may be an option. If not avoid like the plague. The Dell uses a S-IPS panel which I think is superior than TN.

Dell monitors are about the only Dell thing that I would buy, they really are good and any brand snobbery should really be checked when looking at them.

oh i didnt know that thanks Mr_Orange

hmm sorry to but in but does the Dell E228WFP 22" use a TN panel? and could you list 20" to 22" tft
screens that dont use TN panels please?

 

[james.miller]

oh i didnt know that thanks Mr_Orange

hmm sorry to but in but does the Dell E228WFP 22" use a TN panel? and could you list 20" to 22" tft
screens that dont use TN panels please?

all 22's use tn-film as said, so that includes the average e228wfp

 

[Baddass]

as said, all 22" models are TN Film based. Tbh, if you're doing colour work on the screen i would suggest looking at other panel technologies. The viewing angles of TN Film are the major issue here really since you can detect obvious contrast and colour shifts with a change in viewing orientation, and this can often be even with slight changes. Colour reproduction and black depth can actually be very good from modern TN Film panels, so that's not really a concern as it used to be in the past. However, one thing which might be important here is whether you have a colorimeter or device for calibrating your screen?

If so, you can probably get pretty decent colour repro out of most of todays models, but without, you are going to rely on how they perform out of the box. TN Film panels are often pretty poor in this regard, with not much time spent factory calibrating the screens before they are shipped. Some are VERY poor too in this regard. Having said that, just because a screen uses VA / IPS technology doesnt mean that at default settings it will be any better, in fact the very pricey NEC 20WGX2 was very poor at default settings when i tested it. You're prob going to want a good colorimeter to get the most out of whatever screen you get, and S-IPS might be the best choice thanks to it's very good viewing angles, 8-bit colour depth (TN Film is only 6-bit with frame rate control) and decent colour rendering capabilities.

The Dell 2007WFP would be a good choice, dont be put off by the 16ms quoted response time. For some unknown reason Dell didn't list the G2G response time of the panel used (LG.Philips S-IPS or SAmsung S-PVA) which is 8ms. In practice, the Dell is very good, pretty comparable to the modern overdriven TN Film models and the well regarded NEC 20WGX2.

hth

edit: you can use the panel database here to search for all different panel types: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/ (e.g., put 20"WS into the search for 'panel', and it will bring up all the 20"WS models, showing you which panels are in which

 

[inverseSquare]

Many thanks for all the replies

One other question now surfaces
If im looking at the 2007WFP, should i also consider the 2007FP ? Is it basically a non-widecreen version of the same pannel ? Older tech ? poorer performance ?
Just that it would deliver a bit higher res and no possible wide-screen compatibility issues


Thanks again.

 

[C64]

Yes as good as the 2007wfp S-IPS panel but as you said 4:3.

 

[Greebo]

Also consider the Samsung 215TW

This is a beaut of a 21" screen with a S-PVA samsung panel (no panel lottery)

IMO you won't miss the 1" compared to the 22" TN film panels and I would much rather have the better quality screen.

And can be had for a bargain £170 on the net at the moment.

 

[casualty]

No asking for competitor information.

 

[inverseSquare]

Also consider the Samsung 215TW

This is a beaut of a 21" screen with a S-PVA samsung panel (no panel lottery)

IMO you won't miss the 1" compared to the 22" TN film panels and I would much rather have the better quality screen.

And can be had for a bargain £170 on the net at the moment.

Thanks, i'll look at the 215TW as well Would you choose it over the 2007WFP / 2007FP ?
Its spec seems very similar to the 2007WFP (the same resolution on a slightly larger panel ?), but the contrast ratio is higher at 1000:1 to the dell's 800:1. Would this be noticeable ?
I see some comments about the dell's lacking a bit of blackpoint detail, would the 215TW fair better ?

On the price, i looked at the 'usual suspects' and found Overclockers to be about the lowest Others were £300+

Thanks.

 

[C64]

Has anyone else noticed in a lot of cases it's cheaper to buy certain monitors
in high street shops than anywhere online for example the samsung 226bw you can walk in to a shop and buy for £229 online with delivery is more expensive it's also the case with the hp 2207 and many others.

 

[Greebo]

Thanks, i'll look at the 215TW as well Would you choose it over the 2007WFP / 2007FP ?
Its spec seems very similar to the 2007WFP (the same resolution on a slightly larger panel ?), but the contrast ratio is higher at 1000:1 to the dell's 800:1. Would this be noticeable ?
I see some comments about the dell's lacking a bit of blackpoint detail, would the 215TW fair better ?

On the price, i looked at the 'usual suspects' and found Overclockers to be about the lowest Others were £300+

Thanks.

Because I can find one under £200 then yes I would choose it over the Dell.

As for contrast ratio, you wouldn't notice it. Both screens are very good.

At overclockers price I would buy the Dell 2007WFP TBH since it is a faster screen

Reviews of the Samsung here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/guides/samsung_215tw.htm and Dell here: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/guides/dell_2007wfp.htm

 

[Baddass]

guys, please can I just remind you that discussion of competitors and their pricing is against the rules of the forum. Please keep this on topic about the models, and not the prices. thanks