More army bullying

big_white_dog84 · 13 May 2006 at 10:16

BBC News link

This strikes me as being a lot of nonsense. I have also been put in a chamber and exposed to CS gas. The whole point of the exercise is that you are able to remove the used canister from your respirator and replace it with a new one. If you do it wrong you get a lungful of nasty CS stuff. I think the sun are barking up the wrong tree here.

Of course if it really is being used as a bullying tool then it's a very different story.

tom_nieto · 13 May 2006 at 10:38

I read it as bullying, but the idea of changing the canister on the respirator hadn't even occured to me. Damn media sensationalisation.

4T5 · 13 May 2006 at 11:03

I can never understand any of these cases to be honest.
You don't produce killers by being nice. I think we should chuck all the PC brigade and media sensationalists on the front line.
We are at War we need trained killers and people with Actual experience.
Breathing a bit of CS gas is par for the course and so what if some of the other guys are laughing at you choking a bit. I bet when they first did it someone laughed at them choking.
The odd kicking and mickey taking brings the sufferers together and forms bonds that are taken on to there regiment. Like a baptism of fire you struggled through together it bonds you for life and gives reason to why you would risk your life for each other.
All getting together to whinge and moan like girls breeds wimps who would rather hide than fight.
We have always produced a high standard of soldier i would like to leave them alone to continue.

Thrash · 13 May 2006 at 11:08

I have had fairly lengthy exposure to CS on a number of occasions and while unpleasant the effects wear off fairly quickly. If you are in a role that may include you using CS on others it is a good idea to experience the results personally so that you know what to expect should yourself be accidently exposed to it.

Aod · 13 May 2006 at 11:11

malc30 said:
I can never understand any of these cases to be honest.
You don't produce killers by being nice. I think we should chuck all the PC brigade and media sensationalists on the front line.
We are at War we need trained killers and people with Actual experience.
Breathing a bit of CS gas is par for the course and so what if some of the other guys are laughing at you choking a bit. I bet when they first did it someone laughed at them choking.
The odd kicking and mickey taking brings the sufferers together and forms bonds that are taken on to there regiment. Like a baptism of fire you struggled through together it bonds you for life and gives reason to why you would risk your life for each other.
All getting together to whinge and moan like girls breeds wimps who would rather hide than fight.
We have always produced a high standard of soldier i would like to leave them alone to continue.

*wipes tear from eye*
its too true.

i just wish that the PC brigade would grow a pair of... ba... sense...

Zip · 13 May 2006 at 11:12

Aod said:
*wipes tear from eye*
its too true.

i just wish that the PC brigade would grow a pair of... ba... sense...

Was balls the word you were looking for

Aod · 13 May 2006 at 11:31

Awww, you saw straight through me.

just keep quiet, if they hear you, they'll get offended on behalf of women... :eek:

Hugogo · 13 May 2006 at 12:11

How silly is that? This has been part of training for so long my dad 20+ years ago had to do it in the navy! Its a good thing that they are exposed to the affects of the Gas without any long term affects on their mental or physical well being.

This is yet again another case of some people outside the 'system' not understanding and looking at something from a civilian perspective. If we keep turning our armed forces into a civilian organsation we will severly weaken it and soldiers, in this case, will panic when it comes to working under pressure of CS gas or any other biological / chemical warfare instead of knowing what to do instictivly. (Rant).

Thrash · 13 May 2006 at 12:19

Just for your information CS is not a gas, it's a crystalline solid.

SexyGreyFox · 13 May 2006 at 12:27

We're breeding a nation full of puffs.
I did a stint in the Navy in 1974 and we were told that we would have tricks done on us and it was best to take it.
I then went to do an Engineering Apprenticeship at The Michelin and we went through the same indoctrination again.
This involved anything from asking for a long weight (long wait) or having your head put in a barrel of soap.
We were told that if you worked out what was happening then just go along with it because you'll be able to do it next year - which we did.
Obviously, some can't take it and end up being disliked.

Mike · 13 May 2006 at 12:39

This is fairly standard, I know no one in the forces who hasn't done this, even we did it and we were aircrew.

Stupid media.

Sul · 13 May 2006 at 12:57

The Sun is full of crap.. tbh.

Stringy · 13 May 2006 at 13:15

I'm going to be exposed to it, it's part of the NBC training. As far as I know we have to remove our gas masks, say our name rank and serial, and then put the gas mask back on. Other services may do it different, but then they are much more likely to encounter it.

Another waste of space story by the Sun.

Orcish-Horde · 13 May 2006 at 14:48

OCdt Stringy said:
I'm going to be exposed to it, it's part of the NBC training. As far as I know we have to remove our gas masks, say our name rank and serial, and then put the gas mask back on. Other services may do it different, but then they are much more likely to encounter it.

Another waste of space story by the Sun.

Thats right stringy, when I last did that the instructor took his of too for very group that came in so yes he did have a bit of fun with some but that is all part of the game.

The taking the mask of and shout your name rank and number is if for real there is something wrong with your mask, you can take it of and replace it or fix it. If you have done it once you can do it again.

Chasser · 13 May 2006 at 21:30

OCdt Stringy said:
I'm going to be exposed to it, it's part of the NBC training. As far as I know we have to remove our gas masks, say our name rank and serial, and then put the gas mask back on. Other services may do it different, but then they are much more likely to encounter it.

As someone said earlier, CS is not a gas, it's an irritant.

The days of the old name, rank, number in the CS chamber are well gone (well in the RAF they are, can't comment on the other services).

The RAF (all ranks below Wg Cdr) complete yearly Common Core Skills (CCS) training. Part of this training includes NBC personal de-contamination drills to combat exposure to anything 'nasty'.

CS is used in the Respirator Test Facility, but only as a control medium. Personnel under CCS training enter the RTF in full IPE (Individual Protection Equipment), which is NBC suit, gloves (inner & outer), S10 respirator, overboots, kevlar helmet. They then carry out a series of de-contamination drills which include taking off the respirator to clean the face of any chemical agent. They have special pads which contain 'fullers earth' which absorbs the nasty stuff. They also practice cannister changing drills and drinking & eating drills.

CS is used only to give you confidence is the S10 respirator and to give you an appreciation idea of how difficult personal de-contam is to do properly.

richyfingers · 13 May 2006 at 22:18

I was exposed to CS during my nbc training and 65 seconds sounds about right, we had to take our masks off and say our name rank and number then tell a joke, as well as the cleaning process and replacing the filters. They even made us go out for a run before hand in full nbc gear so we were cream puffed when we got shut in.

The sun is full of tripe and it seems they have taken something that’s fairly standard out of context. At the end of the day CS isn’t really THAT bad, it’s not exactly pleasant but you do build a tolerance to it after prolonged exposure.

Our instructor always said that people that weren’t really affected by it must have Irish blood in them

Cueball · 13 May 2006 at 23:01

Here's the thing, you hear more stories about 'bullying in the forces' yet the funny thing is this:

The army's way of training hasn't changed, the only thing that has changed is the quality of the men and women who are applying to join HM Forces. Obviously the whole political correctness and the "I'm reluctant to do my job properly incase some bleeding-hearts brigade gets on my case" plays a part too.

Hilarious really, how the heck can political correctness apply to an organisation whose sole purpose is to engage the enemy and destroy them? To quote one ex-forces and good friend of mine: "How are they meant to be thinking about political correctness when they're meant to be killing to survive?"

How true.

"Political Correctness" and "Professionally trained killer" are opposites with oppsite prerequisites.

Energize · 14 May 2006 at 00:24

When burned it turns into a gas, so it isnt necessairily a solid. Its not even that toxic.

Thrash · 14 May 2006 at 00:33

In its normal form it is dispersed as either a fine airborne crystalline powder or in a solvent which in turn evaporates, leaving the CS residue.

tom_e · 14 May 2006 at 01:35

were not here to argue weather the naming of the product is wrong if you called it CS crystalline powder no one would know what you were on about CS gas means everyone knows what were talking about