More army bullying

[Stiff_Cookie]

BBC News link

This strikes me as being a lot of nonsense. I have also been put in a chamber and exposed to CS gas. The whole point of the exercise is that you are able to remove the used canister from your respirator and replace it with a new one. If you do it wrong you get a lungful of nasty CS stuff. I think the sun are barking up the wrong tree here.

Of course if it really is being used as a bullying tool then it's a very different story.

ok, the canister filters out the poisonious gas, so why on earth would you want to remove it? I have been trained in gas mask usage and have never been told that I would need to remove a used canister, while in a contaminated area, and replace it with a fresh one. I would have to be decontaminated, brought out of the area to do anything like that.

I also went through the CS chamber and can say that 65secs is a long time to be exposed to it in an enclosed area.

I am going to go with bullying on this. There is absolutly no reason to expose someone to CS for that long as anyone will get the idea of what CS does on their first breath in. CS is very potent and stating ones name and rank or DOB is enough.

Your supposed to do reguar checks of your mask anyways, to check for things that may be wrong. If your mask is failing than thats because you didnt do the checks right, and IMO they should be training to do the correct checks not how to fix their screw up. And besides, if your going to take your mask off to fix it, you wouldnt want to breath anyways so why the whole 60s, again? I mean, one breath should be all you need and if they cant do it in one breath than the instructor needs to get on to them about that. When I get issued a gas mask, it comes with a little card that has the procedures for checking for a correct fitting and working mask. So even if I happened to forget, i will have the card, which happens to be in the gas mask bag.

It has nothing to do with breeding wussies, its about proper training.

 

[SaBBz]

Was balls the word you were looking for

I think everyone understood that without the need to say it...

 

[Zip]

I think everyone understood that without the need to say it...

Just was making sure everyone new what was on his mind

 

[cleanbluesky]

Isn't the principle of the bullying that the recruits were exposed to CS gas for a much longer time than they should have?

 

[Chasser]

ok, the canister filters out the poisonious gas, so why on earth would you want to remove it? I have been trained in gas mask usage and have never been told that I would need to remove a used canister, while in a contaminated area, and replace it with a fresh one. I would have to be decontaminated, brought out of the area to do anything like that.

I can only comment on the UK armed forces NBC drills, but changing a canister could be necessary in a chemical environment. I'm surprised the US don't train for that eventuality also.

There are at least 6 occasions when you may would need to change immediately, that is before you can get into a forced air environment. Also that would in itself involve a lengthy de-contam procedure under the COLPRO (Collective Protection) drills, so an immediate change is the only option. I can only recall the following: If the canister is damaged, if it gets immersed in water (stops the active charcoal filtering), if you are feeling the effects of the agent, if you have difficulting breathing, when told to do so by the local Cdr.

Also UK forces have the S10 respirator on permanent issue and they train with the same one year in year out. It will only get replaced if it is damaged/worn. As well as yearly CCS training, they are subject to 6 monthly checks (valves, eyepieces, straps/buckles etc).

 

[Chasser]

Isn't the principle of the bullying that the recruits were exposed to CS gas for a much longer time than they should have?

Agreed, it is bullying. It is unecessary and that kind of training stopped years ago. It was standard practice to have to remove the respirator, recite name rank & number before exiting the chamber. I can only speak for the RAF, but that was outlawed years ago, so IMHO it is bullying.

As I said before CS is only used as a training medium, to give people confidence in their respirators and to give them an appreciation of how difficult personal decontam would be in a chemical environment.

 

[VIRII]

BBC News link

This strikes me as being a lot of nonsense. I have also been put in a chamber and exposed to CS gas. The whole point of the exercise is that you are able to remove the used canister from your respirator and replace it with a new one. If you do it wrong you get a lungful of nasty CS stuff. I think the sun are barking up the wrong tree here.

Of course if it really is being used as a bullying tool then it's a very different story.

Did you only do the cannister change? No Fullers Earth on the inside of the mask whilst in the chamber?
I take it this was down at Porton /DSTL? Some of the instructors down there seem able to breathe CS all day without noticing it the loons. What about the fun tyre moving exercises in full kit during the peak of summer, finally get out of the charcoal suits dripping black sweat. Still I rather enjoyed it all.

 

[VIRII]

Just for your information CS is not a gas, it's a crystalline solid.

Which is burnt to give off a debilitating gas.

 

[VIRII]

I'm going to be exposed to it, it's part of the NBC training. As far as I know we have to remove our gas masks, say our name rank and serial, and then put the gas mask back on. Other services may do it different, but then they are much more likely to encounter it.

Another waste of space story by the Sun.

Name rank and number? Unlikely. There are cases where you DO have to remove your mask because the inside of your mask "could" in a battlefield scenario haves traces of agent on it. Hence mask off, dab with fullers all around the inside then mask back on.
During this time you will be required to hold your breath and have your eyes shut.

 

[Energize]

ok, the canister filters out the poisonious gas, so why on earth would you want to remove it? I have been trained in gas mask usage and have never been told that I would need to remove a used canister, while in a contaminated area, and replace it with a fresh one. I would have to be decontaminated, brought out of the area to do anything like that.

I also went through the CS chamber and can say that 65secs is a long time to be exposed to it in an enclosed area.

I am going to go with bullying on this. There is absolutly no reason to expose someone to CS for that long as anyone will get the idea of what CS does on their first breath in. CS is very potent and stating ones name and rank or DOB is enough.

Your supposed to do reguar checks of your mask anyways, to check for things that may be wrong. If your mask is failing than thats because you didnt do the checks right, and IMO they should be training to do the correct checks not how to fix their screw up. And besides, if your going to take your mask off to fix it, you wouldnt want to breath anyways so why the whole 60s, again? I mean, one breath should be all you need and if they cant do it in one breath than the instructor needs to get on to them about that. When I get issued a gas mask, it comes with a little card that has the procedures for checking for a correct fitting and working mask. So even if I happened to forget, i will have the card, which happens to be in the gas mask bag.

It has nothing to do with breeding wussies, its about proper training.

Even if you hold your breath, it still effects you.

 

[Zip]

Even if you hold your breath, it still effects you.

How so?

 

[Energize]

How so?

It reacts with any moisture causing a burning sensation, there is moisture on the skin and eyes.

 

[SB118]

I did my gas chamber testing about 13 years ago and i "fondly" remember having to remove my respirator, answer a question ("what day is it?", "what's your favorite colour?" makes you stop and think for a second, stops you blurting out your details and trying to rush out), give my details, then clear off outside.

Horrible stuff, stings like f. which is why they make you run until you drop before your testing (it works with the moisture in your skin & eyes )

They are training people to go and kill, i really hope they toughen them up in every way possible.

 

[PinkPig]

I think it's fair to say that there's no reason why there shouldn't be an investigation - by all means there's nothing wrong with having the test, but it can't be used as a form of bullying or harassment against individuals singled out from others for whatever reason.

 

[Chasser]

Name rank and number? Unlikely. There are cases where you DO have to remove your mask because the inside of your mask "could" in a battlefield scenario haves traces of agent on it. Hence mask off, dab with fullers all around the inside then mask back on.
During this time you will be required to hold your breath and have your eyes shut.

Thats right. The old blot, bang, rub with the decontam pads. In advanced training, they spray your face with a substance called CATAM (I think that's right). This is invisible to the naked eye, but can be seen under UV light. Again this is to ram home the difficulty in actually cleaning exposed skin of any agent. Quartering the face is the usual method, and it needs a good few goes in each quarter and even after 30 mins of this, hold breath, close eyes, unmask, blot bang rub, and repeat, and again, I didn't manage to get everywhere. The message is that even the smallest spec of agent left on the skin could incapcitate you, or worse.

 

[robmiller]

I have had fairly lengthy exposure to CS on a number of occasions and while unpleasant the effects wear off fairly quickly. If you are in a role that may include you using CS on others it is a good idea to experience the results personally so that you know what to expect should yourself be accidently exposed to it.

I think you should be exposed to it so you know what it does to you before you use it on someone else, in much the same way that police officers in the US get sprayed with mace as part of their training.

 

[Stiff_Cookie]

I can only comment on the UK armed forces NBC drills, but changing a canister could be necessary in a chemical environment. I'm surprised the US don't train for that eventuality also.

There are at least 6 occasions when you may would need to change immediately, that is before you can get into a forced air environment. Also that would in itself involve a lengthy de-contam procedure under the COLPRO (Collective Protection) drills, so an immediate change is the only option. I can only recall the following: If the canister is damaged, if it gets immersed in water (stops the active charcoal filtering), if you are feeling the effects of the agent, if you have difficulting breathing, when told to do so by the local Cdr.

Also UK forces have the S10 respirator on permanent issue and they train with the same one year in year out. It will only get replaced if it is damaged/worn. As well as yearly CCS training, they are subject to 6 monthly checks (valves, eyepieces, straps/buckles etc).

OK, the forces must be different because removing the canister was never part of my training. I can understand why it would be trained but I dont think its nesessary, IMO.

I think changing the canister might be specialized training for certain units who are likely to be in combat while wearing it.

We get a new mask and filter issued to us when we deploy and when it is issued we test it right there and then. I have no idea about the model number etc.

 

[Chasser]

I think you should be exposed to it so you know what it does to you before you use it on someone else, in much the same way that police officers in the US get sprayed with mace as part of their training.

Nope, how many more times. CS is used in respirator testing facilities to simulate something nastier, without harmful or lasting effects,

Nothing at all with using CS as a weapon..............

 

[SB118]

I think changing the canister might be specialized training for certain units who are likely to be in combat while wearing it.

It's for situations where you are still in a "toxic" situation and your filter has reached the end of it's usefulness. Be a bit stuffed if you had to go home when your respirator canister had packed up!

We get a new mask and filter issued to us when we deploy ...

Wish our guys had your budget

 

[Chasser]

The UK NBC kit is acknowledged as the best in the world. Gets a tad hot, but in full IPE you can still function in combat.