More difficult to drive F1 or rally car ?

[matthew_o50]

I think the F1 car would be a more difficult car to drive simply beause a rally car is more like a normal car. I remember watching a programme once and it showed how all the controlls for the F1 car are on the steering wheel. These are controlls for everything (something like 40 buttons!) The driver has to change several settings on the car for different conditions/gradiants/speeds. It looked extremely complicated so much so the man that was allowed to drive the car couldn't get it to move very much and then there is the very tight driving position you have to drive in. A rally car is pritty much just a normal modified car which anyone could probably drive.

A rally driver also has someone beside them telling them what's coming up ahead F1 drivers don't get this.

 

[[TW]Fox]

A rally driver also has someone beside them telling them what's coming up ahead F1 drivers don't get this.

Becuase they know *exactly* what is coming up ahead.

 

[Morba]

Doesnt the Race of Champions settle this argument each year?

 

[Gojira]

They are really two different sports, aren't they?

One requires the maximum precision over a well known circuit, repeated many times.
The other requires the best speed over a much less known, and much more unpredictable, relatively short blast, repeated on different bits of course, with varied breaks between them.

I suspect that a rally driver would get the hang of driving an F1 car close to its limit fairly quickly, but would lose out on the ability to consistantly get to the edge and no further, over and over again, that an F1 jock does.

I also suspect that the F1 driver would have problems with the sheer unpredictability of a rally stage, and the lack of practice.

Both guys get my total respect, but for different things!

Alan Woodford

 

[Stringy]

This is like a PS2 vs XBox argument

I don't particularly favor either side, but imagine the highest G-Force rollercoaster that you've been on (if you have), and then imagine taking the simplest of corners in your own car while feeling those forces.....

 

[Combat squirrel]

This is like a PS2 vs XBox argument

I don't particularly favor either side, but imagine the highest G-Force rollercoaster that you've been on (if you have), and then imagine taking the simplest of corners in your own car while feeling those forces.....

explain a simple corner, the corners in most F1 world circutes are a nightmare at 170+ mph, especially in a car that if you even sneeze the whole setup and speed of it changes , most rally corners are simple no ? just like roads around outside my house thanx for this goverments excellent expendature on roads

 

[g60dubster]

They stuck 500bhp in one, and it got round estoril in a time that would have put in 6th on the grid for the grandprix that year

Taken from SportsCarForums:

Rallying today is growing in leaps and bounds; More manufacturers than ever are taking part in the world rally championship, and even more are participating in various national championships. Last year, 16.5 million people spectated at the 14 rounds of the WRC, the highest live attendance figure of any form of motorsport. The drivers are among the best in the world, and the cars are extremely quick and very entertaining to watch.

But there was a time when rallying was very different. The early 1980s saw a category created specifically for manufacturers who wanted to show off their engineering capabilities; Group B was born. The Group B rally supercars quickly evolved into 500+ horsepower, four-wheel-drive chest-thumping beasts with space frames, kevlar bodywork, and many other high-tech pieces. The cars reached a point where many wondered if the cars had reached a point where the drivers could not fully control them. For instance, the Lancia Delta S4 could accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h in 2.3 seconds on a gravel road. Henri Toivonen drove an S4 around Estoril, the Portuguese Grand Prix circuit, so quickly that he would have qualified sixth for the 1986 Portuguese Grand Prix. Nigel Mansell sampled a Peugeot 205 T16 and said it could out-accelerate his F1 car. And, perhaps most impressive (frightening?), the driver's reaction times were cut in half compared with previous rally cars. The Group B rally cars and their pilots were the stuff of which legends are made.

@@
The end of Group B
The pace of technology in Group B was astounding, but FISA was planning Group S. Group S was to be a class which would allow manufacturers to produce highly futuristic cars, and only ten copies would be required for homologation. However, the inevitable finally happened: during the 1986 Port Wine rally in Portugal, a Ford RS200 left the road on a spectator stage, killing three and injuring dozens; after the crash, all the works teams withdrew from the rally. But the final blow for Group B came on May 4, 1986.

Lancia's lead driver, Henri Toivonen, was dominating the 1986 championship and the Tour de Corse rally when his S4 left the road during a twisty tarmac stage. The car went off the edge of the road, hitting trees and rocks while sliding down a hillside. Toivonen and his navigator, Sergio Cresto, were killed. There were no witnesses to the crash, and the subsequent fire completely destroyed the car, leaving the remains unrecognizable as a vehicle. The heat from the fire was so intense that all that remained of the car was a blackened space frame. Group B and Group S were instantly cancelled for the 1987 season; Ford and Audi withdrew from Group B immediately. The other works teams decided to see the season out.

Imagine what group S would have produced

Now you know exactly why the WRC cars have the 34mm turbo restrictor. Imagine a WRC evo with the Norris engine or a Focus WRC with a reyland job

 

[Flibster]

Haha...A thread I can contribute sensibly in *well..as senibly as I get...*

I have driven various forms of both types of car.

They're 2 completely different styles of driving. Personally I find Rally cars harder.

F1 cars are currently ~920bhp and 600kg's minimum weight including driver with virtually no fuel. They rely on aerodynamics and setup to be able to be driven quickly.

Rally cars have roughtly 1/3rd the power and weighs more than double what a F1 car does @ 1300kg. They rely on mechanical grip - setup is still important.

It's difficult to compare as they are such different styles of driving. Rally cars are meant to be able to be slid around corners. Thats bad for a F1 car.

F1 cars are extremely sensitive to wind, bumps *every bump in the circuit feels like someone is hitting you on the base of the spine with a hammer* camber and have to run on really smooth tarmac to get the best out of them.

Rally cars really don't mind that much about bumps, wind, camber and will run on any surface.

I think it's more to do with how you learnt to drive quickly. If I'd learnt in a stripped out 205 on normal roads - I'd be better suited to rally driving. I learnt in a F3000 car on a circuit. Once I had that hammered into me I then got given a Celica Rallycar and was told to go have fun.

For most people I feel that Rally Cars would be easier to drive as they are closer to road cars to drive quickly. F1 cars are a completely diifferent animal.

People mentioning all the driver aids here - it doesn't matter. Rally cars are now getting automatic gearboxes. Traction control wouldn't work in a rally car. Both have power steering.

They you've got to look at whats around them:
Rally cars - trees, rocks, gateposts, fences, spectators - pretty much all stationary.
F1 - Other cars is the main one. They can be mobile roadblocks, or just fast enough to be producing turbulance behind it causing you to have problems overtaking it - you also have pit stops.

Think I've rambled on a bit here..

In essence - 2 totally different driving styles required - neither are harder than each other. It's just how you learnt.

Simon/~Flibster

 

[Nitro_Junkie]

rallying, definately

you have unpredictable, uneven and slippery changing surfaces, you have to actually use and standard type clutch and gearbox, control slides and learn the best areas to gain traction. Im not saying F1 is easy but its boring as hell

 

[Glaucus]

F1- You or I could jump in a rally car and drive it, ok we wouldn't be fast, but we could drive it. Where a F1 car we would more than likley stall it of the start line then stuff it up...

 

[SC04]

For an average man to get 'the car' down the road and around a corner definitely an F1 car.
Its unlikely anyone (scooby and Evo drivers included ) would get the thing to move off the line in the first place, and if you did and got it to a reasonable speed, you would loose it the first time you turn the steering wheel. This would apply to many race cars, Ive seen drivers of high powered road cars struggle for months with racing Karts.

Professional Rally drivers though, have tested F1 cars before and taken to them quite well but are always very surprised with the car.
F1 drivers who have tried rallying have tended to be less surprised with the car but do always state they appreciate the skills of Rally pros.

 

[Pain]

F1

Dealing with the Gs would be a challenge in itself.

 

[atpbx]

Lets put it this way, after a months training in each, i would say i would be a lot faster than when i started in an F1 car, compared to how fast i would be from when i started in a rally car.

 

[SC04]

Lets put it this way, after a months training in each, i would say i would be a lot faster than when i started in an F1 car, compared to how fast i would be from when i started in a rally car.

no one will train you in an F1 car or anything with super sticky tyres and such an aero package, you cant even dream of pushing an F1 car hard enough to make the tyres and chassis work, F1 cars characteristics change by the lap, theres no way on earth you can learn what you need to deal with that in one month!
But Amateurs can and do take up rallying.

 

[atpbx]

no one will train you in an F1 car or anything with super sticky tyres and such an aero package, you cant even dream of pushing an F1 car hard enough to make the tyres and chassis work, F1 cars characteristics change by the lap, theres no way on earth you can learn what you need to deal with that in one month!
But Amateurs can and do take up rallying.

Whoosh i didnt honestly believe someone would misunderstand that post, but you've proved me wrong.

----speed at which i could do a rally course before training.
--------------- After training
- speed at which i would do a lap in an F1 car before training
-----Speed after a months practice.

 

[Tax Evader]

I imagine the F1 cars would be trickier to get used to.

There is one aspect in particular - corner speed. Imagine taking 'imaginary corner' at say 70mph and losing it/coming off. Now in a regular car (and a rally car I suppose) you'd back off next time and slow down to take that corner.
In an F1 car you need to go much faster to avoid coming off - and it's that mentality I think I'd struggle with most of all.
There was a good demonstration of this yesterday when we following Massa round on his 10mph Qualifying lap - see how hard the car was to control?

 

[Dolph]

There's a sport that blows both of them away..... Off-shore powerboating.

Even a Rally stage is predicatable compared to the sea.

As to which of the cars is harder to drive, I would say as much as anything else, it depends on the driver. They are very different techniques, different tactics and totally different enviroments (racing in a pack vs against the clock, cars that are expected to slide against cars that don't and so on)

 

[Gojira]

no one will train you in an F1 car or anything with super sticky tyres and such an aero package, you cant even dream of pushing an F1 car hard enough to make the tyres and chassis work, F1 cars characteristics change by the lap, theres no way on earth you can learn what you need to deal with that in one month!
But Amateurs can and do take up rallying.

Yep, amateurs take up rallying. Just not in works Scoobs or Evos.
And amateurs take up track racing as well, just not in works F1 Ferraris.

The level of skill required at the top in either sport is huge. Different, but huge!

Alan Woodford

 

[The_Dark_Side]

F1 most difficult to drive.
both in terms of operating and driving competitively.
the forces on your body are extreme to say the least.

at least a Rally car resembles a road car to a degree from a driving point of view.

 

[Glaucus]

There's a sport that blows both of them away..... Off-shore powerboating.

Even a Rally stage is predicatable compared to the sea.

As to which of the cars is harder to drive, I would say as much as anything else, it depends on the driver. They are very different techniques, different tactics and totally different environments (racing in a pack vs against the clock, cars that are expected to slide against cars that don't and so on)

Depends how you look at it though, you are taking tracks and style into it, but that wasn't the questions. The question was which one is harder to drive. Take getting the car to your local shops (or what ever). Even in a works evo rally car. I'm sure I could drive it on a road, try the same in a F1 car I'd probably stall it and if I did get it away I would crash at the first corner. The hardest is an F1 car no doubt about it..