More dog pics

Again that is crap, the problems which can arise in all dogs do so, granted if somone who buys a pedigree pug or a dog with inherent, serious health flaws then they will have that problem, but I wouldn't suggest to anyone to buy a dog for cosmetic value.

I take it you are base of opinion is from your GF who is a vet, which tbh after some of the discussions with my vet I would disagree with a lot of what is said about diet and also the effects of more natural supplements.

KaHn
 
KaHn said:
I take it you are base of opinion is from your GF who is a vet, which tbh after some of the discussions with my vet I would disagree with a lot of what is said about diet and also the effects of more natural supplements.
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Well, I put my faith in science - not narrow observation.

KaHn said:
Again that is crap, the problems which can arise in all dogs do so, granted if somone who buys a pedigree pug or a dog with inherent, serious health flaws then they will have that problem, but I wouldn't suggest to anyone to buy a dog for cosmetic value.
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How can you say it is crap? It is readily statistically shown - pedigree dogs visit the vet more than mongrels, undergo surgery more and are prescribed more medicines. Ask your vet, they won't lie to you about the numbers. More vet = more money = higher cost of ownership.
 
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Hatter The Mad said:
No, it isn't a vet lie. It is a fact - for healthy teeth, a dog has to have something hard, crunchy and/or chewie in its diet (whether you give the dogs bones, chews or dried hide as snacks - or a mix of wet and dry food). Dogs who just eat wet or fresh food, and only that, have bad dental health. Fact.

Again, false. It is a slightly above-average pet food, sitting just under the likes of Iams, but still miles away from the likes of Royal Canin and Hills. In terms of value, assuming no medical requirements from the diet, Pedigree presents one of the best value in wet food. There are far, far more 'worse' brands of dog food available than Pedigree. Ask for your vet, get the facts.
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Any dog breeder/owner who feeds a RAW/BARF diet will tell you that they will never have to brush their dogs teeth as they are constantly being cleaned by the food on the otherside anyone who feeds a dry only diet (even royal canin/JWB) will have to give extra help to clean their teeth, look at Hills for example they provide a dry diet to increase the amount of cleaning done to teeth while chewing, that in itself is admition that a dry diet will not completely clean their teeth and as such needs extra work from brushing etc.

The vets at the moment have been hand reared by the dog food coperations to lead everyone to think that dry food is better for thier dogs.

I understand why most will blindly follow or even feed it out of convinence but please don't sit there and quote things as fact with out doing the research yourself.

KaHn
 
Hatter The Mad said:
How can you say it is crap? It is readily statistically shown - pedigree dogs visit the vet more than mongrels, undergo surgery more and are prescribed more medicines. Ask your vet, they won't lie to you about the numbers. More vet = more money = higher cost of ownsership.
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Again I wouldn't believe everything your vet says.

KaHn
 
The vets at the moment have been hand reared by the dog food coperations to lead everyone to think that dry food is better for thier dogs.
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Having been with my GF throughout her entire education, I haven't seen or heard of this happen. Apart from free pens and sponsored student events, she hasn't noticed a presence either. Biased third parties (food, equipment or drug companies alike) are not allowed to come into a University and teach students. Same with human medical students, too. Again, get facts - not assumptions.


I understand why most will blindly follow or even feed it out of convinence but please don't sit there and quote things as fact with out doing the research yourself.
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I had opinions before my vet GF, from years of dog ownership in multiple parts of my family - both pedigree and mongrel, and lots of research. I was originally wanting to become a vet myself, but couldn't get into voluntary work experience in my local area (which is required by the Universities). So trust me, I got into and I am still into "this stuff".

Look, I'm not sure if this is a conscience thing for you - but if it is, get over it. You have a pedigree dog and you're enjoying owning that dog. So do I (but never again, unless I go blind or become a shepherd). Your enjoyment and your needs are all that is important - but it should not mean you brand truths and numbers "crap".
 
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KaHn said:
Again I wouldn't believe everything your vet says.
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Why would a vet lie to a pedigree dog owner, when asked "What kind of dog gives you more custom; pedigree or mongrel"? Don your tin foil hats :rolleyes:

I don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye (on anything :p), so lets agree to disagree. You have a lovely looking Max there, makes me sad that my Max has passed :)
 
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haven't read the rest of the thread, but my Gran had a German Sheppard (strangely also called Max!) and that got dodgy back legs as well. It's a problem with the breed, as i'm sure you're aware.

He was alright until he got quite old, and never really seemed to be in any pain, but after a while of just dragging his back legs behind him he had to be put down.

B@
 
I'm not going to argue with you anymore about this as I find your blind faith amazing, all I will say is that from my experience and comments made about Max from the vet (before realising he was on a Raw diet) about his coat,teeth, temperment and general well being all being excellent then having him tell me that I should be feeding the dog something like Hills dry food (which I have had numerous reports that it causes dogs to become hyper, even over other dry food) is quite amazing.

Also I didn't say that the dog food companies would encroach in university teaching but in vet practices, how many have you been into and have them offer science plan as their prefered type of food? I have also been told by my vet that they werent allow to talk about certian type of dog insurance as they had been paid to promote one type, now do you think that is correct?

KaHn
 
My dogs! Well the male is mine the female is the family's but theyre brother and sister :p

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Roxy and Shadow!

Shadow has a skin problem, allergic to flea's :/ and something else they have not found out yet glad we have insurance :p
 
Hatter The Mad said:
Is there something I'm missing about German Sheps and the name "Max"? I didn't name ours, my parents did. Crazy strange that mine, Kahn's and yours was/is called Max!
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As I posted in another thread, Max is the best dog name ( I had a Max as a child as did my Dad).

My next dog will be called Thor tho.

KaHn
 
KaHn said:
I'm not going to argue with you anymore about this as I find your blind faith amazing
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It isn't blind faith, just facts - and a faith in science, and not reports or narrow observations.


Also I didn't say that the dog food companies would encroach in university teaching but in vet practices, how many have you been into and have them offer science plan as their prefered type of food?
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Science Plan is different; they have the broadest range of specialist diets. There are competitors for some certain types of specialist diet foods, but none as broad as Hills. It is easier and cheaper for Vets to buy and 'prefer' science plan. However, vets are not allowed to sign themselves away to food or drug companies, to such an extent that their professional opinion, recommendation or referral becomes or is even at risk of becoming skewed, to fulfil a biased interest. They'll be struck off for that.


Insurance is another matter. It isn't essential to a dog, and they could well be biased in this regard, to earn a referral income for the practice. In the same way that going to see your bank's 'financial advisor' about insurance or a pension isn't wise, because they're biased and/or not allowed to discuss other products.
 
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I Think you're going to get as many different opinions on dog food as there are brands and diets. Everyone wants to think they are giving their dog the best food.

While at Crufts this year we got talking to an Akita owner who had a Bitch that had identical markings as our dog and she swore by Pedigree food. The vet that my g/f used to work at used to recommend Eukanuba(even though they sold hill's science plan). The instructor who we see at dog training classes doesn't like Eukanduba and just feeds his dogs on whatever they have at the supermarket.

We feed our dog Eukanuba.
 
I will find the articles about dry food over the weekend as I am at work.

But I will leave you with one thing, Vets are not "Non Profit" orginisations, they need to make money from somewhere and where that comes from is pushing special diets/drugs which will not be needed.

I had to ask for Max to be put on a Glucosamine supplement (which he suggested Seraquin and then chaged 4 times the market value) and I have since changed to Cosequin DS based on the US studies, I will be asking my vet about that next week but that will probably be the last time I will go untill I have him Hipscored by the BVA in a years time.

KaHn
 
KaHn said:
I'm not going to argue with you anymore about this as I find your blind faith amazing, all I will say is that from my experience and comments made about Max from the vet (before realising he was on a Raw diet) about his coat,teeth, temperment and general well being all being excellent then having him tell me that I should be feeding the dog something like Hills dry food (which I have had numerous reports that it causes dogs to become hyper, even over other dry food) is quite amazing.

Also I didn't say that the dog food companies would encroach in university teaching but in vet practices, how many have you been into and have them offer science plan as their prefered type of food? I have also been told by my vet that they werent allow to talk about certian type of dog insurance as they had been paid to promote one type, now do you think that is correct?

KaHn
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You say that your vet suggested Hills before they realised you were feeding it a raw diet. I can guarantee 95% of vets wouldn't suggest a raw diet to many people due to the perceived expense/difficulty of the diet and would recommend the next best thing which is a high quality dry food.

It's like when you go to a personal trainer, they don't tell you to stock up on loads of when protein and supplements a 99% of people aren't going to be dedicated or bothered enough to take it that far. They just tell you to have a good intake of protein in your diet and eat healthier which is good but obviously not the best way to do it.

In regards to health issues, with a pedigree you can be pretty certain that if the breed has known health issues, it's more than often going to get them at some stage. With a mongrel it's more about luck of the draw.

You could argue the toss either way because at least with a pedigree you know what's to come and can deal with that in the best possible way when it happens whereas with a mongrel you never know what might happen.

The problem for me is when organisation like The Kennel Club and Crufts and people associated blatantly disregard the health of an animal to achieve a certain look.
 
No my Vet told me I should not be feeding RAW and that I should change to Hills.

Also RAW is a lot cheaper than dry food.

KaHn
 
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