More teacher strikes

Moses said:
I'd have no problem with the idea of teachers being paid more money in general. However, that'd be conditional on the standard of teaching going up/the calibre of people entering the profession being improved.

As it stands, the best teachers don't get paid enough, but the bad ones get paid too much (/shouldn't be employed at all!).
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The government wants untrained teachers in the classroom...
 
Moses said:
So? Why can't untrained teachers (read: those lacking QTS) be good teachers? Does a PGCE automatically make someone a good teacher? Of course not! Is a teacher with QTS better than one without it? Sometimes yes... sometimes no... sometimes there's no difference.

Hiring 'unqualified teachers' works in the private sector, no? Why can't we trust the senior management of schools to identify and hire quality people who can teach effectively?
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It's a standardisation thing....

You can't be a driving instructor without the qualification...

Just like you can't teach scuba diving without a qualification....

Paramedics need to undergo training...if you are that good a teacher then getting qualified is no biggy at all.

And a lot of senior managers don't have a clue....seriously.
 
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easyrider said:
You also made sweeping statements and completely forgot to mention other ages in the classroom to backup an non existent argument.
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So not only are 5 years attending structured History lessons, they are being mixed with different age groups in the same class room too? And there's me thinking only America made their children 'graduate' each year and hold them back if they don't. It really has changed since my day.

Flippancy aside why not just admit you didn't read my conversation with amigafan properly? He said 5 year olds are being taught history, I questioned this and you for no apparent reason start mentioning 19 year olds.

Do you really think I don't know that 19 year old can study History, really, REALLY?

Oh and please quote these "sweeping statements" I've made because I think you're confusing me with someone else.
 
estebanrey said:
So not only are 5 years attending structured History lessons, they are being mixed with different age groups in the same class room too? And there's me thinking only America made their children 'graduate' each year and hold them back if they don't. It really has changed since my day.

Flippancy aside why not just admit you didn't read my conversation with amigafan properly? He said 5 year olds are being taught history, I questioned this and you for no apparent reason start mentioning 19 year olds.

Do you really think I don't know that 19 year old can study History, really, REALLY?

Oh and please quote these "sweeping statements" I've made because I think you're confusing me with someone else.
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Of course five year olds get taught history...just not in the same way as older children...

Theatre Plays...drawing cavemen learning about dinosaurs etc...I did all these things when I was five in school...

In fact my nephew came home the other day age six telling me about Neil Armstrong and the moon landing as he knows I love anything space related.
 
There is going to be a big move away from teacher training at university very soon, people will be able to train on the job so to speak, more like an apprenticeship. Once this is in effect there really is no excuse for hiring unqualified teachers.
 
Moses said:
What if there's someone who wants a career change? Eg. someone who's worked abroad, or in higher education, who doesn't have QTS, but would still be great teachers/wouldn't bother if it meant taking a year out to retrain?
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It is funny isn't it? My wife has QTLS and ATLS status because she works as a dance teacher in an academy, as well as a private studio and has been teaching all ages from young children through to pensioners in performaing arts for most of her life. Yet she has to do a basic teaching assistant course in order to even be considered as a TA, and work as a volunteer until she 'qualifies'. The course tutor even said it is ridiculous and the level she is expected to work at for this qualification is far below the diploma standards she is used to. As such she is breezing through it, however it is a year of her life she has had to waste in order to try and move to a TA role (long story short she wants mon-fri whereas at the moment she works 6-7 days a week).
 
Moses said:
What if this desire for standardisation puts off exceptional candidates, and leads to a teaching cohort which isn't good enough overall/allows rubbish teachers through the cracks anyway? Oh wait, that's what we do have!

No buggy (sic)? What if you're an exceptional grad, where your options are teaching after another year at university or going straight into earning good money? Did you see Tough Young Teachers, or whatever it was called? The BBC doc about a handful of new Teach First teachers? They had six weeks of training. Do you remember the maths teacher who was amazing? But he didn't do a PGCE/didn't have QTS... shirley that's unpossible :( :( :( (lols).

What if there's someone who wants a career change? Eg. someone who's worked abroad, or in higher education, who doesn't have QTS, but would still be great teachers/wouldn't bother if it meant taking a year out to retrain?

Again, it works in the private sector, doesn't it?

PS. if a driving instructor/SCUBA instructor/paramedic drops the ball, people die... the lack of flexibility is understandable. With regards to teaching, I can see the pros of flexibility outweighing the cons of scrapping certain requirements in certain circumstances (if the pros don't outweigh the cons, why do private schools - with all the resources they have - do it?)
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If getting a teaching qualification puts people off then they don't I really have the hunger for teaching in my view...

A PGCE for example can be done one night a week at night school while teaching in the day...
 
Moses said:
What if this desire for standardisation puts off exceptional candidates, and leads to a teaching cohort which isn't good enough overall/allows rubbish teachers through the cracks anyway? Oh wait, that's what we do have!

No buggy (sic)? What if you're an exceptional grad, where your options are teaching after another year at university or going straight into earning good money? Did you see Tough Young Teachers, or whatever it was called? The BBC doc about a handful of new Teach First teachers? They had six weeks of training. Do you remember the maths teacher who was amazing? But he didn't do a PGCE/didn't have QTS... shirley that's unpossible :( :( :( (lols).

What if there's someone who wants a career change? Eg. someone who's worked abroad, or in higher education, who doesn't have QTS, but would still be great teachers/wouldn't bother if it meant taking a year out to retrain?

Again, it works in the private sector, doesn't it?

PS. if a driving instructor/SCUBA instructor/paramedic drops the ball, people die... the lack of flexibility is understandable. With regards to teaching, I can see the pros of flexibility outweighing the cons of scrapping certain requirements in certain circumstances (if the pros don't outweigh the cons, why do private schools - with all the resources they have - do it?)
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The extra year training isn't just a year at uni. You do placements that ease you into the life of a teacher.
you can't throw a person into that role without first giving them a taste
 
Sorry to bring up an old thread but seems relvent now.

Dunno if any of you have kids but for my two (one primary one secondary) this is starting to take the **** a bit. We are coping, fortunately, but for some I can imagine this is becoming a real problem.

Both of their schools are on strike today, and have been several times over the last few months, looks like they are going to strike again on Tuesday.

What is going on to get to this point?
 
BUDFORCE said:
Sorry to bring up an old thread but seems relvent now.

Dunno if any of you have kids but for my two (one primary one secondary) this is starting to take the **** a bit. We are coping, fortunately, but for some I can imagine this is becoming a real problem.

Both of their schools are on strike today, and have been several times over the last few months, looks like they are going to strike again on Tuesday.

What is going on to get to this point?
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Years of below inflation pay rises. Increased responsibility. Longer hours. Increased workload due to fewer staff.
 
Dis86 said:
Years of below inflation pay rises. Increased responsibility. Longer hours. Increased workload due to fewer staff.
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Add in the gutting of social services to that list too. My wife finds herself doing more and more of what a social worker would have done in regard to safeguarding and dealing with issues out of school, which can be quite extensive seeing as she works at a school in one of the most deprived and high crime areas of Liverpool.

Thankfully I’m in a job now where I can cover the bulk of the household finances, so that she only does it 2 days a week now. Doing full weeks of that maelstrom would eventually break anybody.
 
ci_newman said:
Perhaps an account that was deleted on older versions of the software. This thread is older than my kids :)
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Holy moly didn't clock that. I know they'd been on strike a while but didn't realise it had been 9 years :eek: :cry:
 
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The Funktopus said:
Add in the gutting of social services to that list too. My wife finds herself doing more and more of what a social worker would have done in regard to safeguarding and dealing with issues out of school, which can be quite extensive seeing as she works at a school in one of the most deprived and high crime areas of Liverpool.

Thankfully I’m in a job now where I can cover the bulk of the household finances, so that she only does it 2 days a week now. Doing full weeks of that maelstrom would eventually break anybody.
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Yep, my sister quit teaching and does private tuition now because she can just teach kids and not have all the stress and anxiety of dealing with kids and parents who need more help than just 'plain education'.
 
I mean, it’s not uncommon for parents to bring their kids into school, and then tell my wife that they’d done ‘x, y or z’ at home, seemingly with the expectation that it’s their teacher’s job to sort it out, and not their’s, as the kid’s parent.
 
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The Funktopus said:
I mean, it’s not uncommon for parents to bring their kids into school, and then tell my wife that they’d done ‘x, y or z’ at home, seemingly with the expectation that it’s their teacher’s job to sort it out, and not their’s, as the kid’s parent.
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Yup. But see D.P.s posting elsewhere where he blames literally everything possible except the parents...
 
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