Mortgage Rate Rises

Soldato
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When most people take out a mortgage they tend to go for the max they can afford, which is understandable as they want the best house they can get.
Here is the mistruth again being repeated, seen it multiple times past few days.

When most people go for a mortgage, they go for the max they can afford because they have to go for the max they can afford to get somewhere, such are the prices right now in many areas.

Now sure, if you're willing to move to the other side of the country or into a ghetto/slum area of your own area, then maybe you can get cheaper.
 

fez

fez

Caporegime
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When most people go for a mortgage, they go for the max they can afford because they have to go for the max they can afford to get somewhere, such are the prices right now in many areas.

Now sure, if you're willing to move to the other side of the country or into a ghetto/slum area of your own area, then maybe you can get cheaper.

And what is you opinion based on? You are making out like it isn't an opinion so I assume you have facts to back this up?

I don't know anyone that didn't buy a more expensive house than they could have got in the area. I'm sure some people buy at the very limit of their budget which just coincides with the cheapest housing in an area but thats uncommon from what I have seen. They bought the house because it was what they wanted and they thought they could afford it. Not because it was the cheapest house available. These were all first time buyers as well.
 
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And what is you opinion based on? You are making out like it isn't an opinion so I assume you have facts to back this up?

I don't know anyone that didn't buy a more expensive house than they could have got in the area. I'm sure some people buy at the very limit of their budget which just coincides with the cheapest housing in an area but thats uncommon from what I have seen. They bought the house because it was what they wanted and they thought they could afford it. Not because it was the cheapest house available. These were all first time buyers as well.

I agree, I cannot think of a single person I know that could not have purchased a cheaper property.
Yes it might have been a flat as opposed to a small house, or a 2 bed instead of a 3, or a semi instead of a detached etc.

I am sure there are a few people who can just afford the worst possible house in a decent distance in any direction, but thats going to be pretty much an edge case.
 
Soldato
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Yeh I'm not sure that's the case... My old man always said, if you get a mortgage, make sure you can afford 8% interest... And this was when we had rates of 4 or 5%
 
Soldato
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And what is you opinion based on? You are making out like it isn't an opinion so I assume you have facts to back this up?

I don't know anyone that didn't buy a more expensive house than they could have got in the area. I'm sure some people buy at the very limit of their budget which just coincides with the cheapest housing in an area but thats uncommon from what I have seen. They bought the house because it was what they wanted and they thought they could afford it. Not because it was the cheapest house available. These were all first time buyers as well.

The cheapest houses are always in the ghetto/slum regions or don't suit people's needs (i.e they are poor value). When looking to buy people first eliminate houses that don't meet their essential requirements (driveway, nr bedrooms, area etc) and then choose out of what is left and then added value is evaluated alongside this. When you look at the price of houses it doesn't take much to estimate what salary would be needed to buy it and thus it is fairly easy to estimate that not many first time buyers can go above the range of the cheaper houses in an area in the first place.

I guess your view that people could buy cheaper could be applied to a home mover rather than a first time buyer. Home movers will have built up some equity so they could decide to buy cheaper but mostly they don't because they want to upgrade from the house they already have which is the whole point of moving in the first place otherwise they'd just stay put.

I agree, I cannot think of a single person I know that could not have purchased a cheaper property.
Yes it might have been a flat as opposed to a small house, or a 2 bed instead of a 3, or a semi instead of a detached etc.
But we're not talking about sacrificing your essential needs to buy a place that isn't suitable, that would be a stupid decision. Yeah I could have bought a flat in a ghetto for half the money but its not suitable. Its reasonable to expect some compromise, and first time buyers normally have to compromise (most are not loaded), but its very unfair of existing homeowners, I think, to expect people to buy crapholes which is what you seem to be suggesting they do to save money.


I use myself primarily as the example in this. If you accept that I couldn't move area (reasons for this that don't need to be stated here for brevity), and you accept that a certain minimum standard of house was required (again, for reasons), then I bought the cheapest house I could, which was at the max of my budget and I earn a decent wage which is above average. The only way I could have bought cheaper was to accept sub-standard and that in my opinion is not a fair expectation on people. There is a major difference between expecting something gold plated or accepting something fundamentally sub-standard (which many many houses are). Just to add we're not talking a +/- a few percent here, most people will search within a budget range. If we're talking making a fundamental difference to financial outlay then we're talking at least +/- 10-20% difference from maximum. I bought a house at £250k - there is barely anything for sale that isn't a craphole for £200k or less. The house I bought was on for £230k and I had to overbid to get it, having previously being outbid on houses in the £220-230k range by other people bidding £10k over or more. Unless you're in the market lately you really don't know what its been like.

There are Im sure people who could have bought cheaper, who had more money available and I guess do buy at their maximum, but I would say from my own experiences that a lot of people also have little choice but to spend up to their max budget getting a suitable place.


Im focussed on FTB here because existing homeowners generally have much more of a choice. They already have security, already have equity and a lower mortgage than would be the case for an FTB. Its FTB that are forced into the buy expensive or rent expensive impossible decision and its them that are going to suffer first when rates go up.
 
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Caporegime
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Perople are in trouble.

When most people take out a mortgage they tend to go for the max they can afford, which is understandable as they want the best house they can get.

However when interest rates are near zero the monthly repayments are as low as they can be.

When the rates rise, like now people tend to forget they have not factored it in even though the advice is to always factor in rises.

So yes a lot of people will be struggling not just with the mortgage repaments but the current fuel levels and food prices going up we are hit in every direction.

Some tough times ahead of us all.

Said it before. Bank would lend me too much imo. They'd lend me far more than I (having owned for a couple of years) would be comfortable with.

It's fine.. If rates stay static. But I certainly do not feel the stress tests were enough.

With what I borrowed if rates went up to 4 percent. With mortgage rates let's say 6pc..i could live. But it would be no life. Work to live.
I'd be paying 500 more... Every month.


But you max out your rate. I did when I bought. I took it all out. To get the best rate I could. Maybe you should be forced. To take a 5yr fix. So at least you know you can afford that. And it's fixed. But that brings up a whole new issue that not everyone wants to.

Tldr.
I think banks are over lending.
 
Soldato
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Tldr.
I think banks are over lending.

I agree, although I would call it over extracting. The whole property price inflation is enabled by banks being in control of the money supply, because "money" is printable by them, and is not backed by a hard unprintable asset such as Bitcoin or gold. The property market correction should have come in 2008, but it didn't because the banks were saved, allowing them to continue extracting. Personally I think the property "market" is a complete joke, really it is just the primary wealth extraction vehicle. People should be calling for proper money backed by gold or Bitcoin, i.e. currency exchangable to a set amount of gold or Bitcoin, otherwise the asset inflation will continue until normal hard working people have zero chance of owning a house, which I think is a disgrace.
 
Caporegime
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I agree, although I would call it over extracting. The whole property price inflation is enabled by banks being in control of the money supply, because "money" is printable by them, and is not backed by a hard unprintable asset such as Bitcoin or gold. The property market correction should have come in 2008, but it didn't because the banks were saved, allowing them to continue extracting. Personally I think the property "market" is a complete joke, really it is just the primary wealth extraction vehicle. People should be calling for proper money backed by gold or Bitcoin, i.e. currency exchangable to a set amount of gold or Bitcoin, otherwise the asset inflation will continue until normal hard working people have zero chance of owning a house, which I think is a disgrace.
Why would we want "proper money" backed by Bitcoin, "a very high risk asset"?
 
Associate
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Herts
Due to renew in a couple of weeks and it’s looking like best I can get with nationwide is 3.14% on a 2 year deal or 3.29% on a 10 year. Weirdly not much difference between them.

That’s on a £400k balance and 48% LTV.

Currently on around 1.9% and paying £1,620/ m so my monthly is going up by over £200 which is poo.
 

fez

fez

Caporegime
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Due to renew in a couple of weeks and it’s looking like best I can get with nationwide is 3.14% on a 2 year deal or 3.29% on a 10 year. Weirdly not much difference between them.

That’s on a £400k balance and 48% LTV.

Currently on around 1.9% and paying £1,620/ m so my monthly is going up by over £200 which is poo.

Kind of makes sense. In the short term the interest rates will stay high but long term they should almost certainly come down, especially over 10 years. Almost surprised it isn't slightly cheaper for the 10 year one. They will have made their predictions for short, medium and long term interest rates and based their offers accordingly.
 
Soldato
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Consett
Due to renew in a couple of weeks and it’s looking like best I can get with nationwide is 3.14% on a 2 year deal or 3.29% on a 10 year. Weirdly not much difference between them.

That’s on a £400k balance and 48% LTV.

Currently on around 1.9% and paying £1,620/ m so my monthly is going up by over £200 which is poo.

Are you fixing in for 10? How long do you have left? Any option for a 5?
 

fez

fez

Caporegime
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With about 18 months left on our mortgage we are paying it down as much as possible and will try and pay off a lump sum if we can when its up. It won't come close to clearing the debt but it should make any rate rise easier to accept. Fingers crossed in 18 months some of the current madness will have abated.

If there is a decent house price crash we might try and move to a bigger house.
 
Joined
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Location
Wilds of suffolk
The cheapest houses are always in the ghetto/slum regions or don't suit people's needs (i.e they are poor value). When looking to buy people first eliminate houses that don't meet their essential requirements (driveway, nr bedrooms, area etc) and then choose out of what is left and then added value is evaluated alongside this. When you look at the price of houses it doesn't take much to estimate what salary would be needed to buy it and thus it is fairly easy to estimate that not many first time buyers can go above the range of the cheaper houses in an area in the first place.

I guess your view that people could buy cheaper could be applied to a home mover rather than a first time buyer. Home movers will have built up some equity so they could decide to buy cheaper but mostly they don't because they want to upgrade from the house they already have which is the whole point of moving in the first place otherwise they'd just stay put.


But we're not talking about sacrificing your essential needs to buy a place that isn't suitable, that would be a stupid decision. Yeah I could have bought a flat in a ghetto for half the money but its not suitable. Its reasonable to expect some compromise, and first time buyers normally have to compromise (most are not loaded), but its very unfair of existing homeowners, I think, to expect people to buy crapholes which is what you seem to be suggesting they do to save money.


I use myself primarily as the example in this. If you accept that I couldn't move area (reasons for this that don't need to be stated here for brevity), and you accept that a certain minimum standard of house was required (again, for reasons), then I bought the cheapest house I could, which was at the max of my budget and I earn a decent wage which is above average. The only way I could have bought cheaper was to accept sub-standard and that in my opinion is not a fair expectation on people. There is a major difference between expecting something gold plated or accepting something fundamentally sub-standard (which many many houses are). Just to add we're not talking a +/- a few percent here, most people will search within a budget range. If we're talking making a fundamental difference to financial outlay then we're talking at least +/- 10-20% difference from maximum. I bought a house at £250k - there is barely anything for sale that isn't a craphole for £200k or less. The house I bought was on for £230k and I had to overbid to get it, having previously being outbid on houses in the £220-230k range by other people bidding £10k over or more. Unless you're in the market lately you really don't know what its been like.

There are Im sure people who could have bought cheaper, who had more money available and I guess do buy at their maximum, but I would say from my own experiences that a lot of people also have little choice but to spend up to their max budget getting a suitable place.


Im focussed on FTB here because existing homeowners generally have much more of a choice. They already have security, already have equity and a lower mortgage than would be the case for an FTB. Its FTB that are forced into the buy expensive or rent expensive impossible decision and its them that are going to suffer first when rates go up.

Lots of words that basically confirm your initial statement was incorrect.

Its not unusual to add a list of requirements when purchasing something, but adding them basically means you have not bought the cheapest available as thats all you can afford, you have bought the cheapest available that meets your conditions.
The conditions will be heavily influenced by your position. Eg if I gave you £500k tomorrow I suspect your cheapest property would be somewhat different to the one you are in now, since you would change some of your conditions.

I didn't buy the cheapest house I could, I could have purchased a house for half what i did, I didn't either take the max mortgage I could, nor for as long as I could.

Buying a house is subjective and emotional. Eg you wouldnt let me select your house for you would you? Why? Simply because most of the buying decision is not simply buying the cheapest, but ticking the subjective boxes whilst allowing emotion to run riot.
 
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