Mortgage Rate Rises

Mason- said:
Lmao who are you to say he doesn’t deserve to get paid what he does. Just having a qualification doesn’t entitle you to better pay. I went to university with a bunch of lazy morons but they still got their degrees.
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I think MKW qualified his statement pretty well by explaining that when when he's using the term "overpaid", he means purely in relative terms based upon supply and demand.

I don't know an awful lot about the construction industry, but he's probably right.

He's not saying that one person is worth more than another, nor is he claiming that one job is more difficult or requires more qualifications than another; he's simply pointing out the disparity in earnings versus demand.
 
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GordyR said:
I think MKW qualified his statement pretty well by explaining that when when he's using the term "overpaid", he means purely in relative terms based upon supply and demand.

I don't know an awful lot about the construction industry, but he's probably right.

He's not saying that one person is worth more than another, nor is he claiming that one job is more difficult or requires more qualifications than another; he's simply pointing out the disparity in earnings versus demand.
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Thanks and yes

I was trying really hard not to trigger and yet still managed
I find the whole subject of pay one that really really triggers certain types.

I mean going back to said individual its really not hard what he does. I mean he showed me an example and I was like oh simple. And then I had a go and oh it was simple. (Fixing some boards in my bathroom)
The barrier to entry is really low in reality, I would hazard a guess 90% of the population would be able to do his job well quite quickly.
And yet hes earning significantly more than average wages, it cannot be anything other than supply and demand causing that.
Hell to quote thenewoc its borderline an unskilled job by his definition, and should be paid unskilled money which is waaaay less than a nurse would get.

It was interesting as he had to ask me to explain the COVID stuff to him since he couldn't understand. And when I told him he earned too much to qualify he said, pfft will just carry on working then. (He did try but didn't really succeed)
If you look at how wages have gone up in this field its well beyond most.

Some roles would likely earn significantly more if judged on an equal basis away from political interference. Nurses for example I would say based on level of training, difficulty in the job, often unsociable hours should earn at least as much as a dry liner.
I mean they literally have peoples lives in their hands at times but due to the majority being employed by the government they are not paid commensurate with the above factors.

All IMHO I would say.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Thanks and yes

I was trying really hard not to trigger and yet still managed
I find the whole subject of pay one that really really triggers certain types.

I mean going back to said individual its really not hard what he does. I mean he showed me an example and I was like oh simple. And then I had a go and oh it was simple. (Fixing some boards in my bathroom)
The barrier to entry is really low in reality, I would hazard a guess 90% of the population would be able to do his job well quite quickly.
And yet hes earning significantly more than average wages, it cannot be anything other than supply and demand causing that.
Hell to quote thenewoc its borderline an unskilled job by his definition, and should be paid unskilled money which is waaaay less than a nurse would get.

It was interesting as he had to ask me to explain the COVID stuff to him since he couldn't understand. And when I told him he earned too much to qualify he said, pfft will just carry on working then. (He did try but didn't really succeed)
If you look at how wages have gone up in this field its well beyond most.

Some roles would likely earn significantly more if judged on an equal basis away from political interference. Nurses for example I would say based on level of training, difficulty in the job, often unsociable hours should earn at least as much as a dry liner.
I mean they literally have peoples lives in their hands at times but due to the majority being employed by the government they are not paid commensurate with the above factors.

All IMHO I would say.
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Supply and demand is definitely a factor, I think it's also partly because doing dry lining as a career would simply get boring for most people, day in day out.

You go to work, you dry line, you go home, rinse and repeat. Not much about that sounds fun to me!

Definitely agree people in high demand jobs like being nurses should get paid better.

There are definitely skilled people doing unskilled work though, world of difference on the quality of the finished product from a good tradesmen to a bad.
 
HungryHippos said:
Supply and demand is definitely a factor, I think it's also partly because doing dry lining as a career would simply get boring for most people, day in day out.

You go to work, you dry line, you go home, rinse and repeat. Not much about that sounds fun to me!

Definitely agree people in high demand jobs like being nurses should get paid better.

There are definitely skilled people doing unskilled work though, world of difference on the quality of the finished product from a good tradesmen to a bad.
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For sure. But really most jobs become repetitive to some extent sooner or later.
Being able to put your brain in the fridge before you leave for work each day has a certain appeal at times ;)

Honestly I hate the term unskilled. The simple frank reality is there is very very little unskilled work. I mean the most basic of construction industry is groundworks typically there really isn't much skill there.
But once you get to carpenters its potentially quite high, sparks can be quite high, a good plasterer again its practically art.

I mean we technically take unskilled people into our factory roles. Within 6 months they have been trained in GMP (good manufacturing practices), food safety, health and safety in regards working with dangerous machinery and dangerous chemicals. They would gain other skills as well but they are more niche and less directly transferrable elsewhere.
All four of those things are valuable skills to other employers in other industries. They are no longer unskilled but skilled enough to operate with dangerous chemicals and machinery in an environment that ensures we can supply the largest food/beverage manufacturers on the globe (plus technically work for them)
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
For sure. But really most jobs become repetitive to some extent sooner or later.
Being able to put your brain in the fridge before you leave for work each day has a certain appeal at times ;)

Honestly I hate the term unskilled. The simple frank reality is there is very very little unskilled work. I mean the most basic of construction industry is groundworks typically there really isn't much skill there.
But once you get to carpenters its potentially quite high, sparks can be quite high, a good plasterer again its practically art.

I mean we technically take unskilled people into our factory roles. Within 6 months they have been trained in GMP (good manufacturing practices), food safety, health and safety in regards working with dangerous machinery and dangerous chemicals. They would gain other skills as well but they are more niche and less directly transferrable elsewhere.
All four of those things are valuable skills to other employers in other industries. They are no longer unskilled but skilled enough to operate with dangerous chemicals and machinery in an environment that ensures we can supply the largest food/beverage manufacturers on the globe (plus technically work for them)
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I think it's a good idea to at least somewhat try and enjoy your job though.

I don't think most people would enjoy basic construction work, at least not as a full-time career.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Yep

I remember the 80/90s more than the 08s personally

I spent a lot of time on busses late 80s at 6th form and college (had split sites due to computing being run at college rather than 6th form) It was rare to see building work then.
Estate my parents lived on had houses part built. It ranged from poured slabs to upto but not roof beams. The developer finished anything that had the timber element of the roof on, everything else was left as was. Some sat for like 5 years in that state.
He wound down the workforce over about a month from a lot (probably 100 or so) to 3. It turned out afterwards the 3 were only ever his employees the rest subbies.
He kept the 3, one was the site manager, another was his secretary. Actually the 3rd was probably himself.

If demand drops a lot these vastly overpaid builders are going to have to drop rates. I use the term vastly overpaid with some hesitancy. They are only overpaid in relative terms based on supply and demand, and only I believe in relation to many other jobs, but not all.
I know a dry liner who charges over £1k a week. Hes a nice guy, but he really doesn't deserve based on qualifications and how hard it is to earn that sort of money.
I dont deny anyone being able to charge what they can, but I find some in building seem to have got a bit carried away with how hard it actually is and how they deserve these salaries compared to many other jobs, such as for example nurses.

I think many people will be shocked however that whilst the labour element during a recession would likely drop, the costs of materials are seemingly stubbornly high. Whether they would come back down with demand you would hope, but I wouldn't count on it.
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I'm due to do some renovations at the end of the year /beginning of next year, what are the odds of prices for builders to drop a bit or demand for even because right now. They are supposedly fully booked until the end of q1 of next year
 
jonneymendoza said:
I'm due to do some renovations at the end of the year /beginning of next year, what are the odds of prices for builders to drop a bit or demand for even because right now. They are supposedly fully booked until the end of q1 of next year
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Based on previous recessions, availability will increase, and prices might fall. The problem is, as ever, working out which ones are actually worth hiring...
 
I'm living on a new build site that's probably about 50% built. Most of the houses are sold before they're even completed, particularly certain styles of house. A number of town houses still for sale but that's it.

I'm still seeing people in the sales office obviously looking to buy. Atleast 30% of the houses (social houses) were not for sale in the usual way. No sign of reduced prices yet.
 
200sols said:
Because mortgages becomes unaffordable, economy contracts and lenders tighten criteria. People thought the same.before 2008 and prices dropped 20+%.
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All depends on where you live, blanket figures for rises and losses don’t paint a full picture. Plenty of places saw very small drops in 2008 the old location location location thing!

This one looks to me like it will be much worse than 2008 though, sky high inflation, crazy mortgage rates combined with what’s looking like
a nasty recession is a recipe with financial Armageddon. So much depends on the situation in Russia and Ukraine a coup in Russia and a moderate coming to power and seeking a sensible peace in the Ukraine would change anything and could happen anytime or not for years.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Some roles would likely earn significantly more if judged on an equal basis away from political interference. Nurses for example I would say based on level of training, difficulty in the job, often unsociable hours should earn at least as much as a dry liner.
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That's fair, nurses are often the go-to role when criticising footballers and it's like people completely miss just how valuable and skilled pro footballers actually are, even if you paid nurses properly they're still way less valuable.

In the case of some trades it's a much more reasonable comparison, nurses' wages (along with doctors and others*)are artificially suppressed here as the largest employer is the state-owned NHS and as you point out various trades are quite inflated as there is a lack of supply, if more people were encouraged to go into trades instead of accumulating debt and pursuing pointless degrees they'll never use at some ranked 120th in the league tables "university" then those wages wouldn't be so high.

It was a nice idea in principle for more and more people to go to university but in reality, it's resulted in plenty of people spending 3 years where they're economically inactive only to end up in a job that they could have done without the degree + accumulating a load of debt they now need to pay back and which will dramatically reduce the amount of disposable income they'd otherwise have available to spend.

Polytechnics should have been kept and local technical colleges should have been promoted a bit more IMO.

*compare to the US with a competitive market and doctors over there earn mid-six figures, IIRC radiologists can earn 800k even and nurses can earn high 5 figures or low six figures in some cases. There are of course self-employed people in private practice earning millions too but I'm just talking about people employed in normal hospitals, not in management and/or not running their own Hollywood plastic surgery clinic etc..
 
R.O.S.S.I said:
Best rates im seeing on MSE's mortgage finder are 3.74% on a 3 year fix but a super high fee, then next best are 4.09% and 4.15% on 10 year fixes.

Its the issue of whether house prices are going to go down or not which is really troubling me.
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Have a look at sold prices in your area and see what they did in 2008 I don’t see how there won’t be at least similar or worse falls in the next couple of years.
 
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