Mortgage Rate Rises

Joined
4 Aug 2007
Posts
21,546
Location
Wilds of suffolk
As someone who recently paid off I would say one of the main benefits was psycological
My savings were in excess of my mortgage for probably 3 years before it got paid off (due to ERC penalties, so I paid the max overpayment I could), but even then it felt different when the actual debt was zero.

Its not always only just about the financial position.

Saving has a similar effect, it can create a fell good factor knowing how large your safety blanket is.
 

fez

fez

Caporegime
Joined
22 Aug 2008
Posts
25,629
Location
Tunbridge Wells
Why paying off the mortgage is better than playing the stockmarket, unless it’s 100% in shares only, but then you run the risk of “corrections”.

Even with corrections you are better of putting it in the stock market when rates are low. When rates are low, markets are buoyant and shares increase in value massively. Barring a catastrophe, you would have been far far better off if you stuck all that overpayment money in the markets.

Our last mortgage was 1.92% which was far worse than many who got theirs later. Thats **** all interest and we would have been getting 7-10% on our money instead of 1.92% over that period. We overpaid for 5 years at ~£1100 month so that would have been £66k, with compounding that would have been basically £80k if we assume a yearly return of 7%.

If I am calculating this correctly, we only saved £3k in interest by overpaying the mortgage and would have gained ~£14k if it was in the markets. Thats not inconsiderable.

Overpaying your mortgage now makes more sense as its safe and our current rate is about 5.4% or something like that but we should have left the mortgage alone and invested while rates were at historic lows.
 
Soldato
Joined
3 Dec 2002
Posts
4,010
Location
Groovin' @ the disco
If I am calculating this correctly, we only saved £3k in interest by overpaying the mortgage and would have gained ~£14k if it was in the markets. Thats not inconsiderable.

Overpaying your mortgage now makes more sense as its safe and our current rate is about 5.4% or something like that but we should have left the mortgage alone and invested while rates were at historic lows.

I agree.. but we are assuming someone is going 100% shares and 0% bonds. The video explains why it isn’t worth holding any bonds if you have a mortgage as efficiently your going short and long on bonds.

Also most people don’t calculate that if they did make over payments when rates are low, it means that there’s less of a mortgage when rates are high, so there be less interest changes. And paying off a mortgage earlier allows the ex-mortgage payer to invest the mortgage payments into shares sooner.
 
Caporegime
Joined
13 Jan 2010
Posts
32,687
Location
Llaneirwg
I agree.. but we are assuming someone is going 100% shares and 0% bonds. The video explains why it isn’t worth holding any bonds if you have a mortgage as efficiently your going short and long on bonds.

Also most people don’t calculate that if they did make over payments when rates are low, it means that there’s less of a mortgage when rates are high, so there be less interest changes. And paying off a mortgage earlier allows the ex-mortgage payer to invest the mortgage payments into shares sooner.

But if you simply save into S&S you can, if rates go up, dump a lump sum in at the time of product change over?
 
  • Like
Reactions: fez

fez

fez

Caporegime
Joined
22 Aug 2008
Posts
25,629
Location
Tunbridge Wells
I agree.. but we are assuming someone is going 100% shares and 0% bonds. The video explains why it isn’t worth holding any bonds if you have a mortgage as efficiently your going short and long on bonds.

Also most people don’t calculate that if they did make over payments when rates are low, it means that there’s less of a mortgage when rates are high, so there be less interest changes. And paying off a mortgage earlier allows the ex-mortgage payer to invest the mortgage payments into shares sooner.

Thats picking the worst of both worlds in your example. If you were the sort of person do make the best decisions on paper, if your mortgage rate suddenly jumped to the point where it made more sense to overpay the mortgage than invest in the markets then you would exit your market positions and dump that into the mortgage. Then you would pay off that mortgage even quicker...
 
Soldato
Joined
9 Jul 2005
Posts
2,606
Location
High Wycombe
I have 8 1/2 years left on my mortgage, but have been overpaying for the last 5 years - hopefully only 18 months left although unfortunately the house is in the wrong place in the country so will have to sell up, and buy down south, going back inot more debt than I had orgionally!!
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Jan 2013
Posts
21,904
Location
Rollergirl
We've had our 5 year fixed rate offer through now that our current deal is due to finish in July.

LTV is 43%
Interest rate offered is 3.84%

Our previous rate was 2.29%

Considering all that I've read in the press recently, this feels like a good deal? Or has the situation changed a lot?
 
Last edited:
Caporegime
Joined
13 Jan 2010
Posts
32,687
Location
Llaneirwg
As @Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said above it is very psychological paying off the mortgage. I am guilty of this.

I want to have no debt and so paying off the mortgage is a higher priority than having other pots of stuff even if I'm worse off long term. I am happy to accept that.

Its really interesting.
For example I've built up a stack of CC debt while I put what I would spend into my van fund savings account. I thought it better to take that than get a loan.
So right now I'm sitting on 18k of CC at 0pc for 18 months and 18k in cash looking for a van.


For me I just see that as 0. Same as mortgage. Is just subtract my savings from my mortgage debt and see that number as net debt.


Its interesting how different minds work
 
Soldato
Joined
29 May 2005
Posts
4,949
We've had our 5 year fixed rate offer through now that our current deal is due to finish in July.

LTV is 43%
Interest rate offered is 3.84%
that’s a good rate but would seek 2yr fixed in all fairness.

If you are happy with the monthly payment and fixed rate least give you forward planning and you are secure in your financial position then go for it
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Jan 2013
Posts
21,904
Location
Rollergirl
that’s a good rate but would seek 2yr fixed in all fairness.

If you are happy with the monthly payment and fixed rate least give you forward planning and you are secure in your financial position then go for it
It's actually a reduction in our monthly payment from the past 5 years, so yes we're comfortable with that - plus we pay almost the same again on monthly overpayments.

I think I'll go for it right enough, and I'm actually quite surprised at how this has flipped in such a short period of time.
 
Caporegime
Joined
13 Jan 2010
Posts
32,687
Location
Llaneirwg
We've had our 5 year fixed rate offer through now that our current deal is due to finish in July.

LTV is 43%
Interest rate offered is 3.84%

Our previous rate was 2.29%

Considering all that I've read in the press recently, this feels like a good deal? Or has the situation changed a lot?
That sounds a great rate tbh.
But I'd still be wary at 5 years. Have read that China is nearing deflation and it might affect everyone
 
Soldato
Joined
3 Dec 2002
Posts
4,010
Location
Groovin' @ the disco
Its really interesting.
For example I've built up a stack of CC debt while I put what I would spend into my van fund savings account. I thought it better to take that than get a loan.
So right now I'm sitting on 18k of CC at 0pc for 18 months and 18k in cash looking for a van.


For me I just see that as 0. Same as mortgage. Is just subtract my savings from my mortgage debt and see that number as net debt.


Its interesting how different minds work

Not all debt is bad, if a person is borrowing money to increase their wealth or their chances of earning more in the future. I would consider that as good debt. Taking responsible loans for education, transport, tools, experiences and paying assets should increase a persons odds of increasing their wealth. It’s particularly using leverage to increase wealth.

Taking a loan to buy items that depreciate or have a higher cost to maintain than to bring in would be a bad debt.

The issue is that often we don’t know which is which at the time of purchase, we can only rely on past performance.

People buy houses for shelter, some people buy houses as an asset to resell or to rent out. We all assume that the appreciation of houses goes up therefore the value of the house goes up and it’s a good debt. But there’s been periods where house prices goes down and people have negative equity in their houses, making it harder to get remortgages or more costly to get remortgages.

Like wise with credit card debts, I have about £600 pounds monthly cycle CC debt that I pay off every month, it’s appears as I pay for everything I can on the CC, I get extended insurance, cash back and other rewards for using a credit card, it disappears at the start of each month as I pay it off.

I have about 1k in a mid term credit card, 0% rates.. I use it to pay large bills, it’s better for me to use the CC than to take cash away from my investments or use a finance plan that charge interest. I chip away at it and make sure it’s all gone before the introduction period is over.

Finally I have about 5k of long term 0% loan, which was completely of my choice. Did I need to buy so many expensive watches, no.. but it was a reward to myself. I manage to get a discount on the watches plus freebies at the time of purchase and it was a way of rewarding myself. I can try to justify it by saying the RRP of the items have gone up even more than inflation, and the money that I could have used is earning me compound interest in a risk free savings account so in an odd way; I’m leveraging a loan to increase my wealth.

The issue comes the CC companies stop doing interest free cards or my stream of income is effected. Say if I can’t get another 0% purchase card, I would have paid the 1k off my existing card and any future large bills would have to come from my savings, a manner that I’m just not used to as I’ve been operating like this for over 20 years. Even the idea of having to pay for a transfer fee for the mid term debt to be transferred over to 0% month card sends me into shivers. Lol

I just try to keep my debts amount plus my emergency funds lower than the amount I have in saving. That way if the **** hits the fan, I can pay off everything I owe, reducing my monthly outgoings and have enough cash until I get back on my feet without having to sell of assets and shares.

It’s all about risk appetite and how well you can manage debt. I know as a student, I could not manage my debts at all.. I was so bad at it that I defaulted on what seems a large scary sum at the time, that’s a laughable amount now but that experience has taught me so much about personal finance.
 
Back
Top Bottom