Mortgage Rate Rises

fez said:
Really? We have never paid any sort of deposit. We have only bought twice but I haven't heard anyone else talk about it either.



My experience with solicitors has not been great. They have been slow, incapable of doing anything beyond asking questions you want them to and then forwarding the responses and charging a lot of money for the privilege. We had to constantly chase our last one, ask her what the hell half the stuff she forwarded actually meant and despite saying repeatedly "can we send you anything to speed this up" she would randomly send us emails about things she didn't have that were holding up further progress. Things we could have given on day 1.

I don't doubt they add value in some areas but a lot of stuff feels like its cookie cutter on every sale/purchase.



I could get behind that idea. Certainly more than the current scam.



I would trust it if there were proper checks in place. Surveyors are a professional body and if they lie or misrepresent a house, they get in serious trouble. Why would they lie just because a seller was paying for it. If the seller doesn't provide a proper survey and grant access to the areas they should then the house shouldn't be allowed to be sold.
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Yes its very normal to pay a deposit. 5%. Problem is that its becoming a problem for a lot of people.
So what tends to happen is they agree to just pass on, or to not bother.

You just said you had to ask her what half the stuff she sent meant. Does that not tell you shes adding value.
What if your buying a new built house, would you know what to check in regards as to whether it was actually legit?
What about where there are restrictions etc.
A lot of stuff is cookie cutter indeed. And many solicitors involved in house purchases and sales are in fact conveyance specialists as opposed to solicitors.

Yeah its one of my personal tax "improvements" I would like to see. Its a significant chunk now when most have to do incremental steps.

I've actually had an issue with a surveyor in the past. It cost me a load of money and I was told by a barrister who I worked with to forget trying to sue them as I would stand practically no chance.
You only have to look at a survey on a house thats less than perfect. "Recommend this is checked by a specialist", "there could be an issue with X" etc. Most is worded that its non committal.
How would you prove something was deliberately missed that was significant.

What I believe personally should happen is that the mortgage lenders should agree between them to share if requested surveys done by one of their surveyors for a nominal fee.
Eg I was buying and using mortgage lender A. I pull out. You come along with lender B who says, oh we can see a survey was undertaken by lender A 2 months ago, we can get you a copy for £25 do you want it?
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
You only have to look at a survey on a house thats less than perfect. "Recommend this is checked by a specialist", "there could be an issue with X" etc. Most is worded that its non committal.
How would you prove something was deliberately missed that was significant.

What I believe personally should happen is that the mortgage lenders should agree between them to share if requested surveys done by one of their surveyors for a nominal fee.
Eg I was buying and using mortgage lender A. I pull out. You come along with lender B who says, oh we can see a survey was undertaken by lender A 2 months ago, we can get you a copy for £25 do you want it?
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Oh they cover their backs as much as possible but thats got nothing to do with who is paying them. Thats the nature of their business and the fact that they fundamentally cannot be sure about a huge number of things without expensive, invasive excavation of various things. I just don't see the benefit of them giving false or less honest reports to sellers vs buyers.
 
The UK English house buying and selling process is not fit for purpose, takes way too long and is money for old rope for solicitors, estate agents, surveyors, who each add little value to the process but are happy to keep existing and taking money repeatedly each time failed chains occur.

Surveys are wrapped in self protecting legal terms and state things that are mostly obvious, but in order to truly deep dive into any mentioned "problem" areas, usually require additional external parties to check, with additional cost. They also usually require much more disruption to the property both in physical access and time, to check for things like structural issues. They are often not worth the paper they are written on imo.

Solicitors whilst required, are an absolute scam for the level of service they typically provide. They typically take on way too many clients, make mickey mouse mistakes and do not do things in a timely manner.

Estate agents need no commentary really. They are often the worst people most people will ever have to deal with in your life, and it's on your home.

The fact that buyers/sellers can muck about with pulling out/changing commitments right up to exchange, toys with people's lives in a way that is totally unacceptable for such an important transaction.
 
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fez said:
Oh they cover their backs as much as possible but thats got nothing to do with who is paying them. Thats the nature of their business and the fact that they fundamentally cannot be sure about a huge number of things without expensive, invasive excavation of various things. I just don't see the benefit of them giving false or less honest reports to sellers vs buyers.
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But it could be to do with who was paying them thats my point.
You inferred as they are professionals then they would all be legit, and I assume you mean they could be taken to count if they were providing iffy "commentary"
When my point was as its often so woolley and considering there is often a delay would you really trust an external survey.

Plus another issue is what level of survey. I've paid for various levels, my 1890s house was an expensive one, a house I pulled out of was an expensive one (pulled out due to survey actually!), but I have also had cheap ones on newer houses.
Do we move to only one level of survey, the most expensive?
 
jaybee said:
The UK English house buying and selling process is not fit for purpose, takes way too long and is money for old rope for solicitors, estate agents, surveyors, who each add little value to the process but are happy to keep existing and taking money repeatedly each time failed chains occur.

Surveys are wrapped in self protecting legal terms and state things that are mostly obvious, but in order to truly deep dive into any mentioned "problem" areas, usually require additional external parties to check, with additional cost. They also usually require much more disruption to the property both in physical access and time, to check for things like structural issues. They are often not worth the paper they are written on imo.

Solicitors whilst required, are an absolute scam for the level of service they typically provide. They typically take on way too many clients, make mickey mouse mistakes and do not do things in a timely manner.

Estate agents need no commentary really. They are often the worst people most people will ever have to deal with in your life, and it's on your home.

The fact that buyers/sellers can muck about with pulling out/changing commitments right up to exchange, toys with people's lives in a way that is totally unacceptable for such an important transaction.
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Especially as a FTB.
Its hard for FTBs.. Then you have all the fees, selling being able to pull out last minute and cause you to lose 1000s in fees, surveys, searches etc.
 
Is it worth going through a broker when you've got a low LTV? We're talking somewhere in the region of 20-25% at the end of our current term. All the cookie-cutter responses on the main lender sites seem to not make any difference to the rates from anything under 60% LTV.
 
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@Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

Lenders sometimes will use valuations done on behalf on other lenders, it's called a re-type.

Admittedly it's not common and also depends if the valuers (firms) share/are on each others panels etc.

I think we charge (well not we, out valuer panel) charge £35 for a re-type on a standard short form valuation report.
 
jaybee said:
Estate agents need no commentary really. They are often the worst people most people will ever have to deal with in your life, and it's on your home.

The fact that buyers/sellers can muck about with pulling out/changing commitments right up to exchange, toys with people's lives in a way that is totally unacceptable for such an important transaction.
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I was seriously mentally drained after selling my last house and the estate agent hadn't done any checks on finances on the potential buyer for my house right up until the week of exchange. The money was apparently coming in from an 'uncle' in Europe. Sounded proper sus and well during this whole time this was when Quasi got in and wrecked the market. The buyer conveniently had a 'medical emergency' and had to pull out. The market had slowed, the house went back on market £15k less and I had to wait 3 more hellish months before I finally sold and in to my new place. Doing it all alone after separating from the wife, which was already mentally draining and throwing in 2 young kids.
 
GravyMonster said:
Is it worth going through a broker when you've got a low LTV? We're talking somewhere in the region of 20-25% at the end of our current term. All the cookie-cutter responses on the main lender sites seem to not make any difference to the rates from anything under 60% LTV.
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We had a 75pc LTV and it still made no difference.
Granted it was a free broker. But couldn't do any better than the comparison websites.

Went direct to bank as there was a generous 750 pounds cashback which wouldn't have got with a broker and same rate.
 
413x said:
Especially as a FTB.
Its hard for FTBs.. Then you have all the fees, selling being able to pull out last minute and cause you to lose 1000s in fees, surveys, searches etc.
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True.
Its odd because historically the buyers paid a deposit and it was generally buyers who were unreliable.
Now its just as likely to be sellers.

I guess I could see a case for both parties having to send funds to an independent party who would arbitrate on anything that happened as to whether that party should get their funds back.
But as ever you just know it would end up legal and you could be in limbo for 6 months.

BUDFORCE said:
@Mercenary Keyboard Warrior

Lenders sometimes will use valuations done on behalf on other lenders, it's called a re-type.

Admittedly it's not common and also depends if the valuers (firms) share/are on each others panels etc.

I think we charge (well not we, out valuer panel) charge £35 for a re-type on a standard short form valuation report.
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Yeah I had heard of it but didn't realise it had a specific term.
But yeah thats what I meant, but probably needs to be legislated somehow to make it standard.
 
Liquid_Entity said:
I was seriously mentally drained after selling my last house and the estate agent hadn't done any checks on finances on the potential buyer for my house right up until the week of exchange. The money was apparently coming in from an 'uncle' in Europe. Sounded proper sus and well during this whole time this was when Quasi got in and wrecked the market. The buyer conveniently had a 'medical emergency' and had to pull out. The market had slowed, the house went back on market £15k less and I had to wait 3 more hellish months before I finally sold and in to my new place. Doing it all alone after separating from the wife, which was already mentally draining and throwing in 2 young kids.
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I felt the same after we bought our first and only house nearly 5 years ago. We were first time buyers in a "simple chain" which should be "quick". I cba to go into the details but when we finally got it done and got the key, I felt like Jack Bauer in that final episode of one of the 24 seasons. The one where he just sits in his car and cries for half a minute at everything that just happened! ;) The thing is...it should be a happy day. Instead it felt just like relief. Anger that it took so long and so much effort, persistence and micro management from me for 6 months... I felt exhausted too and like I never want to go through it again. Sadly we will have to one day. And this was as a FTB with no house to even sell!
 
jaybee said:
I felt the same after we bought our first and only house nearly 5 years ago. We were first time buyers in a "simple chain" which should be "quick". I cba to go into the details but when we finally got it done and got the key, I felt like Jack Bauer in that final episode of one of the 24 seasons. The one where he just sits in his car and cries for half a minute at everything that just happened! ;) The thing is...it should be a happy day. Instead it felt just like relief. Anger that it took so long and so much effort, persistence and micro management from me for 6 months... I felt exhausted too and like I never want to go through it again. Sadly we will have to one day. And this was as a FTB with no house to even sell!
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Its pretty much always like that. There is a reason buying and selling houses is known to be one of the most stressful things you can do.

The main issue is your dealing with people, with all their emotions, senseless reactions.
And real stuff is uncovered as well, which just delays things.

I mean if you want it to be quick and "painless" buy at auction.
You may get yourself a complete lemon and no way out, but at least the transaction will be quick.
 
jaybee said:
It needs reform but alas, there is no motivation for our government to ever do bold things and fix anything, in fear of holding on to power.
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The government did try to reform it.
Forget who, it might have been end of Blair.

But as mentioned above in regards surveys. They struggled to get people to agree.
The sellers pack was one idea, was supposed to bring together everything you may want as a buyer, including that survey.

Logic was as thats most of the delays in buying all done up front then it should all speed through quickly.
As such maybe say two weeks once the chain had formed should be enough.

One of the other issues is that there are a lot of other potential surveys you may want depending how cautious a buyer you are.
Plus indemnities and warranties and insurance policies etc.
For example some parts of the country you may get a policy in regards unknown mine workings. Do you insist every seller gets one.
What about flood risk reports. The old church roof issue one, sorry forget the name of it.
 
Something needs to happen with Stamp Duty
fez said:
You have to pay tax on that interest though right?



Why? The market should move under market conditions as it always has. If houses aren't moving then something needs to change. That is likely the price that they are being sold at. Most of things to get the market moving will just stimulating house price increases. Honestly though, the whole way we buy/sell houses in the UK should be completely binned and rethought.

We should:

  • Pay a deposit upon agreeing to buy once certain things have happened and you lose that if you pull out after
  • Everything should be done online and available online. Solicitors shouldn't really have to be involved
  • Stamp duty should be abolished to make the market move more easily - its a stupid cost that you have to pay for the pleasure of a stressful house move. If downsizing its just a double kick in the nuts. Our next house will cost around £40k in stamp duty. Why? It just means people don't move when they want to or should.
  • The survey should always be of a certain grade and should be paid by the selling party and is then attached to the property. Multiple buyers paying for multiple surveys is idiotic.
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I'm coping, lol. Hopefully its short term 6 months ish.

Agreed the whole process is a joke.

When we bought the place we're in we were technically homeless for about two hours as the useless solicitor the vendor used went on an extended lunch break and didn't confirm they had received our money. I was so angry and sat outside our house with a flatbed full of our stuff while it started to drizzle.

The vendor complained that it took three months to sort out a no chain property when it was their solicitor who constantly held everything up.
 
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Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
The old church roof issue one, sorry forget the name of it.
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Chancel repair liability iirc. Bit of a joke, but we ended up paying a few quid for the insurance as nervous FTB's.

This conversation is quite raw for me atm. We're 2 months in after chain complete. Whole life feels in limbo; we don't know if we'll exchange in 2 weeks, 2 months, 2 years, or if everything will fall through at the last moment.

I certainly agree more should be done upfront by the seller:
- A level 2 homebuyers survey should be done by an independent surveyor.
- All the local searches should also be done.
- The TA6 and TA10 forms should also be completed.

All of this information should be available at the point the property is marketed, just like the EPC is. Sure, it'll cost the seller a few £££ extra, but a bit more transparency upfront would save so much time and hassle down the line.

The buyer can go for a more detailed survey, or pay for extra insurances (chancel cover, indemnity insurance, etc), but these are known 'optional extras' that must be at the buyers expense (so no faffing over who is responsible for paying).

I'm sure this isn't a perfect solution, and there's plenty I've overlooked, but the fact you can be 3 months after chain complete, several thousand pounds down, only to then find out that the chump didn't get planning permission for an extension, regularly floods, and the house is built over an abandoned mineshaft is a complete joke.
 
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