Motorsport Off Topic Thread

Mr Jack

Mr Jack

Mr Jack

Caporegime
Joined
19 May 2004
Posts
31,566
Location
Nordfriesland, Germany
this_is_gav said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Vettel wasn't demolished by Ricciardo. The stats say he was, but in two of the races Ricciardo won, Vettel was ahead, with a team strategy mistake costing him one victory and a safety car coming out immediately after he'd passed pit entry the other. That one was particularly harsh as Ricciardo was miles behind him at the time, but was the first able to pit and he duly took the lead when the drivers ahead of him pitted the next lap.
Click to expand...

Ricciardo beat Vettel in 11 of the 14 races they both finished, and out-qualified him 12-7. This wasn't a case of Ricciardo getting lucky in a couple of races where Vettel didn't; it was a case of Ricciardo being head and shoulders above him over the entire course of the season. The three wins that Ricciardo got to Vettel's zero, and the 8-4 lead on podiums reflects that. Not only that but Ricciardo did it on only his third season coming into the team where Vettel had firmly established himself on the back of four consecutive world championships.

The idea that Ricciardo didn't spank Vettel in 2014 is just plain counterfactual, and I amazed anyone who watched that season could say otherwise.

I'm not sure anyone expected Ricciardo to take the fight to Vettel, but that was as much about the 2014 regulation changes as anything in my opinion. Vettel was unmatched in the exhaust-blown diffuser era - no other driver had the confidence Vettel had and it was a sight to behold, despite us all hoping his relative dominance would be challenged more often. Even his own teammate and championship rival stated "I can't do that", something a teammate never says. I don't think Ricciardo would have been anywhere near as strong in 2014 if the regulations had stayed the same.
Click to expand...

Vettel and that Red Bull were spectacular in his championship winning years, and his recovery drive in Brazil 2012 certainly stands out as one of the few times he really fought for it, instead of driving away from the front. In one lap pace, and his ability to drive away from the front he was peerless; and he utterly crushed Webber over those four years. But a truly great driver wouldn't have followed that up by being spanked by Ricciardo, rules changes or not. The truly great drivers are able to adapt and impress in whatever machinery they're given. We've seen this from Hamilton and Alonso, we've not seen it from Vettel.
 

this_is_gav

this_is_gav

this_is_gav

Soldato
Joined
17 Oct 2005
Posts
6,243
Location
North of Watford Gap
Mr Jack said:
Ricciardo beat Vettel in 11 of the 14 races they both finished, and out-qualified him 12-7. This wasn't a case of Ricciardo getting lucky in a couple of races where Vettel didn't; it was a case of Ricciardo being head and shoulders above him over the entire course of the season. The three wins that Ricciardo got to Vettel's zero, and the 8-4 lead on podiums reflects that. Not only that but Ricciardo did it on only his third season coming into the team where Vettel had firmly established himself on the back of four consecutive world championships.

The idea that Ricciardo didn't spank Vettel in 2014 is just plain counterfactual, and I amazed anyone who watched that season could say otherwise.
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree that over the season Ricciardo beat Vettel fair and square, but anyone who watched that season knows it certainly wasn't the "spanking" the stats suggest. It was a generally well fought battle between the two for most of the season, but unlike in the preceding years when luck would often fall his way, in 2014 when it could go wrong for Vettel it did. It was like that all season, and I think if I'd won the previous four titles only to get what was a farce of a car which was miles off the pace in comparison, I'd be getting frustrated and losing motivation too.


Mr Jack said:
Vettel and that Red Bull were spectacular in his championship winning years, and his recovery drive in Brazil 2012 certainly stands out as one of the few times he really fought for it, instead of driving away from the front. In one lap pace, and his ability to drive away from the front he was peerless; and he utterly crushed Webber over those four years. But a truly great driver wouldn't have followed that up by being spanked by Ricciardo, rules changes or not. The truly great drivers are able to adapt and impress in whatever machinery they're given. We've seen this from Hamilton and Alonso, we've not seen it from Vettel.
Click to expand...
Oh, I grant that he will leave a stain on his record that he won titles only in a single rules era, but that goes for most champions I suppose. We might have said the same about Hamilton had Massa not had such bad luck in 2008.
 

Steampunk

Steampunk

Steampunk

Soldato
Joined
1 Jun 2013
Posts
9,315
Mr Jack said:
Vettel and that Red Bull were spectacular in his championship winning years, and his recovery drive in Brazil 2012 certainly stands out as one of the few times he really fought for it, instead of driving away from the front. In one lap pace, and his ability to drive away from the front he was peerless; and he utterly crushed Webber over those four years. But a truly great driver wouldn't have followed that up by being spanked by Ricciardo, rules changes or not. The truly great drivers are able to adapt and impress in whatever machinery they're given. We've seen this from Hamilton and Alonso, we've not seen it from Vettel.
Click to expand...

I think that's been the big problem for Vettel. He was very happy when he had the Red Bull that suited him perfectly, had the blown rear wing, was in the Renault works team in all but name. He could qualify at the front and scamper off into the distance. As soon as new regulations came in and the cars changed, Vettel seemed unable to change his driving to adapt to a different car and not starting from the front with a car advantage.

He's very famously resisted a sports psychologist or changing his mental approach at a time when drivers have to look for every bit of edge, every improvement, every physical bit of strength, every weapon in the available arsenal to beat competitors who are doing the same. He's never been able to control his temper tantrums, or deal with being pressured on track, and look how many championship points that's cost him over his time at Ferrari. He still has all the same issues and failings as he had in that last year that Ricciardo overshadowed him at Red Bull.
 

MissChief

MissChief

MissChief

Caporegime
Joined
17 Jul 2010
Posts
25,752
So, Norris signed for 2021 although I don't know for how long, perhaps another year only as well as Ricciardo on what is likely a two year deal minimum.

Sainz at Ferrari for what is also likely two years. He'd be a fool to sign a one year deal.

If I were Mercedes I'd be speaking to Bottas and saying they won't be signing him for next season, get Russell in on a two or three year deal, get Lewis signed on a two year deal and then he can retire with at least one more WDC. Then they could get Ricciardo if he's still doing the business for 2023 and if they're still there, which I think they will be.
 

JRS

JRS

JRS

Soldato
Joined
6 Jun 2004
Posts
19,536
Location
Burton-on-Trent
A mixture of 4, 6 and 8 cylinder engine layouts (Ferrari V12s and the JAP V-twin of Harry Schell's Cooper arriving during the season), large displacement N/A vs small displacement supercharged, works teams vs garagistes vs private entrants...

Oh, for a bit of that variety these days.
 

MikeTheNative

MikeTheNative

MikeTheNative

Soldato
Joined
17 Jun 2012
Posts
9,852
Location
South Wales
Mr Jack said:
This is an amazing story: Daniel Abt suspended for getting a professional sim-racer to pretend they were him in the Formula E virtual race.

First time we've seen misbehaviour in the virtual races spilling over to affect a driver in real life.
Click to expand...

There's been a few since lockdown.
Most notable has been one saying the N word while streaming, was fired - https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/0...s-in-trouble-for-idiotic-behavior-in-esports/
A rage quit lost a single sponsor (not really that much of a deal) - https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/0...sponsor-after-rage-quitting-an-iracing-event/
No consequences in this one but caused a bit of drama after an indy car driver wrecked Lando Norris on purpose - https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/05/drama-in-iracing-as-indycar-champ-wrecks-f1-star-on-purpose/
 

Mr Jack

Mr Jack

Mr Jack

Caporegime
Joined
19 May 2004
Posts
31,566
Location
Nordfriesland, Germany
MikeTheNative said:
Most notable has been one saying the N word while streaming, was fired - https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/0...s-in-trouble-for-idiotic-behavior-in-esports/
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I figured that one wasn't really esport related. It's not like a driver doing a racist would have been ignored if they were, say, shopping.

A rage quit lost a single sponsor (not really that much of a deal) - https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/0...sponsor-after-rage-quitting-an-iracing-event/
Click to expand...

I'd missed that one, thanks. Actually, looks like it's been updated: a driver has been sacked as a result.

No consequences in this one but caused a bit of drama after an indy car driver wrecked Lando Norris on purpose - https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/05/drama-in-iracing-as-indycar-champ-wrecks-f1-star-on-purpose/
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was quite a thing, but no real world consequences that I know of?
 

MikeTheNative

MikeTheNative

MikeTheNative

Soldato
Joined
17 Jun 2012
Posts
9,852
Location
South Wales
Mr Jack said:
Yeah, but I figured that one wasn't really esport related. It's not like a driver doing a racist would have been ignored if they were, say, shopping.
I'd missed that one, thanks. Actually, looks like it's been updated: a driver has been sacked as a result.
Yeah, that was quite a thing, but no real world consequences that I know of?
Click to expand...
Yeah I see your point about the first one, it's not driving related but him being an awful person. There's been a lot of eyes on these events and I think some drivers have been a bit short sighted in the fact they are representing their actual teams in officially sanctioned (by series organisers) events. A sim racing crash doesn't cost money but it doesn't look good PR.
As someone who has simraced a lot the past few years it is good to see it being taken a bit more serious. There has always been some pro drivers taking part in sim racing and taking it serious but it's quite a bubble that only draws sim racing fans, now you have actual mainstream places covering it.
 

this_is_gav

this_is_gav

this_is_gav

Soldato
Joined
17 Oct 2005
Posts
6,243
Location
North of Watford Gap
The only reason Simon Pagenaud wasn't penalised is because Indycar is now owned by Penske, which also happens to be the team he was representing. That's got be a record for a conflict of interest in racing - a real life wheel hasn't been turned in anger yet! And without penalising Pagenaud they couldn't penalise Santino Ferrucci.

It was a huge shame considering how good the rest of the Indycar iRacing Challenge had been until those final few laps. It was another chance to reach out globally and show the rest of the world how good this predominantly American sport is - something Indycar should be desperately pushing given F1's issues over the last few years, and getting a current F1 driver in for a couple of guest drives was a big deal.

Sadly one jealous driver who couldn't hack being beaten by a current F1 driver turned all that good publicity into bad publicity. Ferrucci was just being Ferrucci, and the sooner he disappears from motorsport and the public eye the better.

It's good to see Audi weren't following Penske's lead. Getting fired could be seen as draconian, but it shows they take every aspect of a driver representing them seriously, and Abt was completely naive in thinking his online presence (or lack thereof) was any different.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom