Motorsport Off Topic Thread

Mercedes have a mythical status? A couple of good years in the 50s, a 50 odd year gap and then massively underachieving (for their budget) for the last three years? Mythical my arse. I know in the gap they provided engines, but since when did that really mean much when romanticising things.
 
I would only say of the current teams that Ferrari, Mclaren, Williams and Sauber are of that type.
 
Sauber, really? I know they've been around a long time, but they've generally never been successful (1 win as BMW Sauber?)

To me, to be a legendary mark in F1 you have to have been in it for a long time AND have won things. I agree with Ferrari, Mclaren and Williams. The likes of Lotus and Mercedes to me aren't quite the same as they don't resemble their past guises.
 
Red Bull are already more successful than Merc have ever been in F1!

Mercedes, mythical? :confused:!

Sure, if you count the pre-war era as well. The '30s racers, battling it out with Auto Union, Alfa Romeo et al, can certainly (and rightly) claim to be legendary.

Motor racing didn't begin with the 1950 World Championship and F1 ;)
 
Sure, if you count the pre-war era as well. The '30s racers, battling it out with Auto Union, Alfa Romeo et al, can certainly (and rightly) claim to be legendary.

Motor racing didn't begin with the 1950 World Championship and F1 ;)


I specified F1 to avoid that point ;)
Mercedes today are worlds apart from the pre/post war era of motor racing imo.
Had they continued through the years then they should rightly so be held in the same regard as Ferrari but as they stand today they dont even come close.
 
I specified F1 to avoid that point ;)

Unfortunately, so many, many, many folks on t'internet equate "F1" to Grand Prix Racing. And they aren't the same thing. The world championship, as held from 1950 onwards, has been held to Formula 2 rules before in fact ('52 and '53, to avoid a Ferrari walkover.....someone should have told Ferrari....). So my default position on this forum has been to assume that when someone says F1 they mean Grand Prix racing. It generally works out. Very occasionally, someone surprises me by actually knowing what they're on about.

Very occasionally.

Except when sunama's posting about anything pre-2004, then all bets are off.

:D

Mercedes today are worlds apart from the pre/post war era of motor racing imo.

Ain't that the God-damned truth.

Had they continued through the years then they should rightly so be held in the same regard as Ferrari but as they stand today they dont even come close.

And much like Honda, they got out of the kitchen every time it got too warm.

Actually, I'm being unfair. Under the pre-war era, Mercedes' Grand Prix programme ended on account of a minor fracas....along with GP racing in its entirety. In '55, after a couple of great years* Merc dialled back on racing after the Le Mans sports car tragedy. They didn't come back to sports cars until the the Group C era (IIRC?), did do a spot of factory backed touring car racing in the '80s, but didn't come back into F1 until '93 with Sauber.





* - and they were great. With a blank cheque, and Alfred Neubauer at the helm, they built an incredible....dog. Honestly, the W196 was a beautiful, epic, legendary pile of crap. It flattered on it's debut at Reims, utterly sucked at Silverstone, and was reworked thereafter. But not before the low-mounted intake clogged up and cost them at least one race in '54 (certainly the non-championship Spanish GP IIRC?). But even leaving that aside, it was a tail-happy barely driveable beast. Rudi Ulenhaut was a great designer, but he favoured a loose car. And it took a damned good driver to make that a winner, hence Messrs Fangio and Moss. But Mercedes did bring professionalism to the party, and that went a long way. Didn't hurt of course that Maserati were close-but-not-quite with the 250F (Fangio won with it in early '54, but no-one else won a World Championship race with it that year I think?), Ferrari didn't yet have their **** together, Lancia were dead in the water for the most part (especially after Ascari died), and Alfa had pulled out of racing by then....
 
I think all teams try to cash in on their drivers, it's just that Lotus have struck gold with Kimi, they seem to have found a good balance with him and the team.
 
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Looks like it's possible F1 might be heading back to the A1/Red Bull ring in 2013

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20657102

Few logistical problems to be overcome by the sounds of things but I'm sure nothing Mateschitz's millions can't sort out!

Not sure why lack of hotel rooms is an issue, it was only 2003 the last time they hosted a race not like it was the 70's or something! If it was enough in 03 I'd still think it was ok.

Be a good addition to the calender I think even though my only abiding memory of the track is the infamous 2002 fix!
 
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