Motorsport Off Topic Thread

[t2na]

One thing is for sure, if (unlikely..but if) Lewis wins another title in the Ferrari, his already legendy status will go nuclear. There could be no arguments over the "GOAT" then.

I still think the GOAT argument is super pointless but it would be something really special to see him win a title at Ferrari.

One of the most overlooked items with the whole GOAT debate is that there was a sizeable period of time where you were more likely to die during a GP than you were to win a world championship - and Fangio won 5 world championships. Jackie Stewart won 3! That whole era was just something else.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

One of the most overlooked items with the whole GOAT debate is that there was a sizeable period of time where you were more likely to die during a GP than you were to win a world championship - and Fangio won 5 world championships. Jackie Stewart won 3! That whole era was just something else.

This is true but then you also have to factor in that motorsport was not very competitive in the early days, certainly a million miles off where we are today. Back then it was a sport for mostly rich hobbyists on their jollies (even more so than motorsport is today). The difference between cars in terms of performance was huge, there was no talent pool as such, no feeder series etc. The drivers were absolute maniacs the way they risked their lives but chances are that from a purely driving perspective the talent level was not that high relative to modern times simply due to motorsport being in its infancy and barely anyone competing in it.

FYI I'm talking the VERY early days of F1 here

 

[weta]

It will take an extra special performance from Hamilton to secure an eighth title, I'm not convinced he'll be able to pull it off against the current crop of drivers unless the Ferrari is super competitive this year.

 

[Slam62]

It will take an extra special performance from Hamilton to secure an eighth title, I'm not convinced he'll be able to pull it off against the current crop of drivers unless the Ferrari is super competitive this year.

Wait and see Hamilton is not the same as the others.

To clarify I had high hopes for Lando and Russell but they haven’t got the requisite edge. Piastri has struggled against Norris so again a disappointment, Max is good but questionable driving and basically cracking under real pressure are not good signs.

As for Leclerc, this year will be his reckoning and again so far he’s failed to live up to my hopes for him.
It certainly should be an enlightening season.

 

[Stumble Bum]

Spa has had their contract extended but it'll soon be changing to a race there every 2 years. How disappointing. I hate those that run the sport.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

I’m fine with it having a couple of years off. Purists will be upset but the blunt truth is that despite an amazing layout and lots of history…Spa rarely produces great or memorable F1 races. All the best sessions of the past decade or more have been qualifying sessions with changeable conditions.

Same goes for Suzuka tbh (bar the last point about qualifying)

Silverstone is the only classic track that delivers at a consistent rate

 

[GravyMonster]

It's sad to say, but you're right. Spa is one hell of a drivers track, but it rarely makes a good race, unless it's in changeable conditions.

 

[Mr Jack]

It's sad to say, but you're right. Spa is one hell of a drivers track, but it rarely makes a good race, unless it's in changeable conditions.

It fairly often has changeable conditions, to be fair. Spa is a track that usually produces middling races and sometimes produces exceptional races. The farce of '21 (was it '21 when Russell "got" a podium in the Williams?) aside, I don't remember any exceptionally dull races there and I certainly remember plenty of crackers. You can't have a calendar which consists only of exceptional races, by definition, so tracks like Spa certainly deserve a place on it - there are a whole load of tracks that should be binned first.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

I certainly remember plenty of crackers.

Care to remind me of them ? Its possible my memory is spent but other than 2008 I can't really think of a single race in nearly two decades that falls into the 'cracker' category. Even 2008 required rain on the final 2 laps to make it memorable.

edit: I think Vettel and Hamilton had one decentish race around 2017-2019 period, can't remember which year though.

 

[t2na]

Care to remind me of them ? Its possible my memory is spent but other than 2008 I can't really think of a single race in nearly two decades that falls into the 'cracker' category. Even 2008 required rain on the final 2 laps to make it memorable.

edit: I think Vettel and Hamilton had one decentish race around 2017-2019 period, can't remember which year though.

To be fair last year was pretty good, Hamilton overtaking Leclerc then chasing down George. Max starting P34 and coming back to beat Perez as well as a ton of others.

I agree that it doesn't regularly produce a stunning race but it's a great track to watch them race around and it's worlds better than whatever US or Middle East street circuit they'll replace it with.

 

[englishpremier]

I still think the GOAT argument is super pointless but it would be something really special to see him win a title at Ferrari.

One of the most overlooked items with the whole GOAT debate is that there was a sizeable period of time where you were more likely to die during a GP than you were to win a world championship - and Fangio won 5 world championships. Jackie Stewart won 3! That whole era was just something else.

I think it should be looked at more like Tennis, where comparisons are only really done in the open era, and more so since everyone started playing the Australian Open.

Where the cut off for F1 would be, I can't say, but it doesn't make sense to compare 1950s drives and tech to modern F1.

 

[JRS]

I’m fine with it having a couple of years off. Purists will be upset but the blunt truth is that despite an amazing layout and lots of history…Spa rarely produces great or memorable F1 races. All the best sessions of the past decade or more have been qualifying sessions with changeable conditions.

Same goes for Suzuka tbh (bar the last point about qualifying)

Silverstone is the only classic track that delivers at a consistent rate

I'd still rather watch 'meh' races at Spa or Suzuka than 'almost as meh' races in Saudi Arabia or Qatar.

 

[Mesai]

I think it should be looked at more like Tennis, where comparisons are only really done in the open era, and more so since everyone started playing the Australian Open.

Where the cut off for F1 would be, I can't say, but it doesn't make sense to compare 1950s drives and tech to modern F1.

No single driver will ever be the GOAT in F1 - the closest you have is at the team level, because that's more measurable and less luck.

You can tell who the best drivers are, but with an uneven playing field, you'll never know who is/was the single best driver.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

I'd still rather watch 'meh' races at Spa or Suzuka than 'almost as meh' races in Saudi Arabia or Qatar.

Jeddah is fine imo and the layout is pretty good for F1 racing... plus it has that sketchy/danger factor that not many tracks have nowadays.

Qatar and Abu Dhabi can happily get in the bin though

To be fair last year was pretty good, Hamilton overtaking Leclerc then chasing down George. Max starting P34 and coming back to beat Perez as well as a ton of others.

Id somehow forgot about last year, by Spa standards was definitely one of the better ones of the past twenty odd years

 

[Mr Jack]

Care to remind me of them ? Its possible my memory is spent but other than 2008 I can't really think of a single race in nearly two decades that falls into the 'cracker' category. Even 2008 required rain on the final 2 laps to make it memorable.

I don't have the kind of brain which remembers which year particular races happens, and I don't fancy trawling through the lists to find them. But I agree with @t2na that last year was certainly a good race (and OCUK overall ranked it 5th). I also remember only a few bore fests, although it is perhaps not as suited to the most recent iterations of car as it was in the era before that.

 

[t2na]

(and OCUK overall ranked it 5th.)

I completely missed that thread! Haha, I love that there was someone who voted every race a 10 if Max won or a 1 if he didn't.

 

[Mr Jack]

Looks like Alpine are already manoeuvring to replace Doohan with Colapinto. It'd be nice to see Colapinto given a chance but really feels unfair to be undermining Doohan before he's even sat in the new car. I guess Albon must have a pretty solid contract with Williams that they're not angling to replace him with Colapinto for 2026 themselves.

 

[t2na]

Looks like Alpine are already manoeuvring to replace Doohan with Colapinto. It'd be nice to see Colapinto given a chance but really feels unfair to be undermining Doohan before he's even sat in the new car. I guess Albon must have a pretty solid contract with Williams that they're not angling to replace him with Colapinto for 2026 themselves.

Apparently Doohan only has a 6 race contract with Alpine?

And isn't Doohan's manager Briatore?! That'll be a lovely conversation to listen in on!

 

[Mr Jack]

Apparently Doohan only has a 6 race contract with Alpine?

I saw that, but it doesn't seem very credible to me. I can see there being performance clauses that kick in after a time or whatever, but to give a contract for just six races seems an extraordinary step. Especially as Doohan was signed under the last leadership who seemed pretty keen on him.

And isn't Doohan's manager Briatore?! That'll be a lovely conversation to listen in on!

It still strikes me as totally bizarre that they're allowed to both have roles within a team and be a driver's manager. Toto managing Bottas, for example, always seemed a clear conflict of interest.

 

[t2na]

It still strikes me as totally bizarre that they're allowed to both have roles within a team and be a driver's manager. Toto managing Bottas, for example, always seemed a clear conflict of interest.

Toto also manages Ocon too, definitely agree that a team principal/senior team figure really shouldn't be allowed to also be a drivers manager.

It strikes me as bizarre that Briatore was given a lifetime ban but still was regularly just in the paddock, around the drivers and teams and clearly involved in all but name.