Motorway merge fail??

[Fuzz]

It's as simple as this.
The car driver had two choices.
Drive into the side of the truck and cause an accident or brake and wait for the truck to pass.
He chose the first option, caused the accident so therefore he is to blame. END OF THREAD

 

[Scania]

It's as simple as this.
The car driver had two choices.
Drive into the side of the truck and cause an accident or brake and wait for the truck to pass.
He chose the first option, caused the accident so therefore he is to blame. END OF THREAD

True, but equally the HGV driver is a professional and in charge or a lethal machine (Most Malcolm group HGV's are six axle artics) he should drive defensively and use anticipation.

He should have realised the car driver was running out of room, he could have just lifted off and let him out given the relative low speeds involved, perhaps he could have moved into lane #2 although he may have had a lane restriction preventing this or perhaps another vehicle along side him.

As professional drivers, we (I am a Class 1 HGV driver by trade) have to allow for Joe public most of whom have no clue how to drive, never mind around large heavy vehicles, given the size & weight difference, that truck could easily have "hooked" the car & ran over it with disastrous concequences.

Yes, the car driver was a grade one Turnip who certainly didn't check over his shoulder prior to pulling out but equally the truck driver could & should have anticipated it happening.

Tbh, this sort if thing happens daily in my line of work, thankfully, I've not (yet!) been involved in such an accident by doing what IMO the trucker didn't.

No, he's not to blame as far as insurance companies are concerned, nor it would seem by his employers, that said, he still IMO fell below the standard you need to drive one of those things safely.

Assuming, of course, we have all the facts and the perspective of the HGV driver and view in his mirrors, which , alas, we don't.....

 

[Fuzz]

The truck driver could possibly have helped. Difficult to say without seeing his actual view.
Perhaps he had another HGV on his ring piece so couldn't brake, perhaps lane 2 was full.

What we can say though is the car driver had a damn good view of what was going on and had ample time to hit the brakes and stop.
He didn't. End of story.

 

[Scania]

The truck driver could possibly have helped. Difficult to say without seeing his actual view.
Perhaps he had another HGV on his ring piece so couldn't brake, perhaps lane 2 was full.

I pretty much said this above.....

What we can say though is the car driver had a damn good view of what was going on and had ample time to hit the brakes and stop.
He didn't. End of story.

Had he been looking over his shoulder, using his mirrors and driving with competence, sure.
The point I and a few others are trying to make is the professional driver he hit could and arguably should have seen this coming and acted accordingly, which for reasons we'll never truly know, he didn't.

 

[Overlag]

People make mistakes all the time and if everyone drove around to the rule book ignoring the hazards of people making mistakes there would be crashes every mile on every road.

I know someone that's had multiple non fault accidents but I have to wonder if maybe they opened there eyes most of them wouldn't have happened.

 

[Scania]

People make mistakes all the time and if everyone drove around to the rule book ignoring the hazards of people making mistakes there would be crashes every mile on every road.

This is pretty much my point, you drive any vehicle but especially an articulated truck in a like manner, you kill people. No iffs, no buts.

The vast majority of HGV drivers (believe it or not!) drive like this, (defensive driving) otherwise, the carnage on our roads would be unspeakable.

I would defy any (sane) truck driver to tell me they don't spend all day making allowances for people who seem to merely be operating the controls of their vehicles,with the task of driving apparently being the last thing generally on their minds!

It's part & parcel of the job.

 

[Mr Joshua]

3. Take a look at this Notice how the stopping distance for a truck at 30 is nearly twice that of the car?

Very interesting, so is it safe to assume that if the silver (insignia?) car came to a sudden stop this ***** "professional" driver would have ended up driving over it?

 

[asim18]

Is the truck driver insane?

He can clearly see everything from his high horse position. He sees the ford well in front of the threshold of his bumper, signalling right. He also sees the approaching end of the slip road....

He then tries accelerating to get his whole 30-foot+ slow-accelerating probably fully-laden lorry passed the ford before the end of the slip road? It was never going to happen and the lorry driver should be disqualified for his clearly poor awareness.




I hate some lorry drivers ever since about four years ago in my first car. Coming back from Birmingham at 2 am, something didn't feel right with the old micra. So I'm in lane 1 of 3 doing a steady 45-50mph, poised to effortlessly get into the shoulder if anything goes bang.

Cue a lorry flashing his head off behind me slowly getting closer and closer with no sign of moving into lane 2. All I can think is if I pull into lane 2 the **** might also pull into lane 2 at the same time. So with him literally a metre off my rear bumper and seconds from disaster, I violently swing the car straight into lane 3 and let him pass. All on a totally empty motorway


My personal discipline is this: if a car is beyond an invisible line extending my front bumper, they are in front of me and will merge in front of me. If a car is behind this imaginary line I put my foot down and close the gap with the car in front or move over a lane.

 

[MagicBoy]

I'll assume for the moment you are not trolling. Try reading the highway code. This bit is my favourite - "give priority to traffic already on the motorway". Doesn't say anything about bargeing in and hitting them.

 

[asim18]

I'll assume for the moment you are not trolling. Try reading the highway code. This bit is my favourite - "give priority to traffic already on the motorway". Doesn't say anything about bargeing in and hitting them.

There's our answer to motoway congestion. Reduce stopping distance, and force new joiners to stop at the threshold. Once they've stopped they can never gain enough speed quickly enough to be able to join safely. And slip roads are one way so they can just wait there until 10pm or whatever


The ford has successfully matched the speed of the lorry before he attempts to merge over, at this point the ford is clearly infront of the lorry. If the lorry also maintained speed at this point there would be no accident whatsoever. You can clearly see the speed of the lorry increase just as the Ford starts to merge in. And the digital speed readout on the video footage reflects this. The speed of the lorry increases before the brake lights on the Ford illuminate.

 

[Fuzz]

I pretty much said this above.....



Had he been looking over his shoulder, using his mirrors and driving with competence, sure.
The point I and a few others are trying to make is the professional driver he hit could and arguably should have seen this coming and acted accordingly, which for reasons we'll never truly know, he didn't.

Maybe he was being professional it's difficult for the camera to pick that up.
If he thought "this dude coming down the slip isn't going fast enough to make it in front of me safely, and the gap's too tight anyway, I'll speed up a bit, let him in behind.... WTF is he doing now... Oh s......."
That was his ONLY option.
The car had a simple one... STOP

 

[paintguy]

I see it that the lorry did initially back off a little to let the car in front. The car then backed out so the lorry resumed his speed. The car driver then changed his mind again and accelerated into the now vanishing gap.

The car driver faffed around, the lorry driver was decisive.

 

[MagicBoy]

There's our answer to motoway congestion. Reduce stopping distance, and force new joiners to stop at the threshold. Once they've stopped they can never gain enough speed quickly enough to be able to join safely. And slip roads are one way so they can just wait there until 10pm or whatever

Well done on failing to answer my question. What on earth does motorway congestion have to do with failing to give way causing an accident?

Step away from the crack pipe.

 

[Orionaut]

Maybe he was being professional it's difficult for the camera to pick that up.
If he thought "this dude coming down the slip isn't going fast enough to make it in front of me safely, and the gap's too tight anyway, I'll speed up a bit, let him in behind.... WTF is he doing now... Oh s......."
That was his ONLY option.
The car had a simple one... STOP

This is precisely my point.

IT SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN!

And the fact that it wasn't is entirely down to the POV drivers.

The POV driver was severely tailgating (In both this case and the case of the other clip with the silver car)

The gap was only a second or less. This is way too close for any vehicle under any circumstances.

It is particularly so for an HGV that takes twice as long to stop as other vehicles, It is particularly, particularly so on the approach to an on-slip and particularly, particularly, particularly so on the approach to an on-slip with roadworks!

Had the POV drivers approached the "Hazard" with a more sensible 2-3 second gap then it is unlikely that either accident would have occurred!

That is why I feel the POV drivers should share a significant part (possibly even the bulk) of the responsibility for the collision taking place!

 

[Kenai]

Another way to look at things;

If you were driving the lorry, do you think you would have been able to prevent that accident?

Sure, it's the car drivers 'fault' but that doesn't mean the lorry couldn't or shouldn't have done more to avoid it too and is exactly why non fault claims load premiums. There is usually something the innocent party could have done better, that something others who aren't having non fault accidents manage to do.

 

[Richie]

Is the truck driver insane?

He can clearly see everything from his high horse position. He sees the ford well in front of the threshold of his bumper, signalling right. He also sees the approaching end of the slip road....

He then tries accelerating to get his whole 30-foot+ slow-accelerating probably fully-laden lorry passed the ford before the end of the slip road? It was never going to happen and the lorry driver should be disqualified for his clearly poor awareness.

Huh?

I hate some lorry drivers ever since about four years ago in my first car.... <insert big dramatic story>

Ah, now your point of view is clear....

The ford has successfully matched the speed of the lorry before he attempts to merge over, at this point the ford is clearly infront of the lorry. If the lorry also maintained speed at this point there would be no accident whatsoever. You can clearly see the speed of the lorry increase just as the Ford starts to merge in. And the digital speed readout on the video footage reflects this. The speed of the lorry increases before the brake lights on the Ford illuminate.

As I stated before, I dont think the lorry actually accelerates. You cannot go by GPS speed readouts as a certainty, there is an inaccuracy element. Using stationary, physical features, the truck driver may not have actually sped up. The increase from 31MPH to 34MPH then back to 31MPH may actually be a GPS "blip"

You are berating the truck driver for not maintaining their speed. I think it was the Focus driver who did not maintain their speed.

 

[Lopéz]

Another way to look at things;

If you were driving the lorry, do you think you would have been able to prevent that accident?

Sure, it's the car drivers 'fault' but that doesn't mean the lorry couldn't or shouldn't have done more to avoid it too and is exactly why non fault claims load premiums. There is usually something the innocent party could have done better, that something others who aren't having non fault accidents manage to do.

This is exactly what we're getting at, yet some people seem completely unable to grasp the point.

 

[Kenai]

This is exactly what we're getting at, yet some people seem completely unable to grasp the point.

Indeed, everybody has a duty to avoid accidents, whether you are 'in the right' or not, you don't simply drive around having collisions left, right and centre proudly declaring they shouldn't have been in your way because of Rule X or Rule Y.

 

[Glaucus]

Car driver imo. He hesitated. Then went for it. He needed to put his foot down. Or back right off.
Lorries don't always have a free middle lane to move over. The hesitation, meant lorry driver couldn't do much. He's going to join behind him, oh wait no, he's accelerating again.

Stupid driver hesitating and to scared to use the loud peddle. Unfortunately there are to many people who do not accelerate on hard shoulders. Get on then slow down if needed.

 

[Meridian]

The car driver backed off then tried to pull out into a space that was long gone.

I'll go with this. It looks like the lorry driver sees the Ford slow, and assumes that the Ford driver has given up trying to slot in ahead and is going behind the lorry. The lorry driver accelerates slightly (this is based solely on looking at the camera view, not the GPS) to help open up a gap behind him, thus trying to help the Ford driver. Ford driver then changes their mind and tries to accelerate in front again. Predictably, they fail. Sorry, but this is 100% car driver error. They failed to judge the gap correctly coming down the slip road, they then bottled out of (or did not have the performance for) fitting in the gap in format, and then failed to commit to a safe alternative. I can only quote pilots: always have a backup plan. You need to look at more than one possible gap in case the other vehicles do something unexpected.

I've certainly seen silly driving from lorry drivers, but this seems fairly reasonable.