Motorways

The last time I was driving on the motorway in torrential rain with standing water, I, and many others, were sticking to about 45 to avoid aquaplaning, but the amount of people speeding past like they were impervious to the dangers of standing water was incredible. I bet they didn't even know the kind of danger they were putting themselves in...

Some day they will come unstuck and make some people late.
 
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Acme said:
The last time I was driving on the motorway in torrential rain with standing water, I, and many others, were sticking to about 45 to avoid aquaplaning, but the amount of people speeding past like they were impervious to the dangers of standing water was incredible. I bet they didn't even know the kind of danger they were putting themselves in...

Some day they will come unstuck and make some people late.
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From the sound of the car you've got, those skinny tyres should be fine. Stick to 70 :D
 
Acme said:
The last time I was driving on the motorway in torrential rain with standing water, I, and many others, were sticking to about 45 to avoid aquaplaning, but the amount of people speeding past like they were impervious to the dangers of standing water was incredible. I bet they didn't even know the kind of danger they were putting themselves in...

Some day they will come unstuck and make some people late.
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A few months ago during torrential rain on the M23 even my car (A6 - quite heavy and wide tyres) was losing traction and couldn't see that far in front so I slowed to about 55mph. I also turned on my rear fogs as visibility was reduced. This speed was the right balance between speed and safety in my opinion, but there were smaller cars with no lights on wizzing past me. Not only are they putting themselves at risk but other drivers, because if something has happened to them to cause them to go spinning off in other lanes it could have ended pretty badly.

Talking of lights, I once forgot to turn my front fogs off on the motorway and a kind policeman overtook me and flicked his rear fogs on and off. Obviously everyone forgets once in a while but as soon as he did this I looked down at my dash to see what was wrong. When I told my friends this story quite a few of them said that they wouldn't have realised that he was referring to my fog lights, and it seemed pretty obvious to me.

I feel quite comfortable going well over the speed limit in my car as long as the road is quiet, but as soon as you put other cars around me I tend to slow down because I just don't trust them.
 
What annoys me is when sitting in the left/middle lane and cars travelling up behind you at a reasonable pace and just sitting 3" off you bumper when there is a perfectly usable 2nd/3rd lane to use. Then they proceed to sit there for miles before deciding to overtake. When they decide to finally overtake they would then pull straight back in 3" in front of you, slow down and take the next exit/service station/layby.
 
Not so much annoyance but when cars join the motorway, some try to get to the outside lane as soon as possible, even if it getting progressively slower, you end up with the outside lane stopped whilst lane one is moving quickest.
 
Danger Phoenix said:
A few months ago during torrential rain on the M23 even my car (A6 - quite heavy and wide tyres) was losing traction and couldn't see that far in front so I slowed to about 55mph.
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'Even your car' is made worse by the wide tyres for aquaplaning resistance!
Acme said:
The last time I was driving on the motorway in torrential rain with standing water, I, and many others, were sticking to about 45 to avoid aquaplaning, but the amount of people speeding past like they were impervious to the dangers of standing water was incredible. I bet they didn't even know the kind of danger they were putting themselves in...

Some day they will come unstuck and make some people late.
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There is no universal 'safe speed' for every vehicle and every driver. Good cars with top spec tyres driven by people with some experience are safer at higher speeds than a crappy old knackered banger with boggo tyres and old biddy behind the wheel.
 
Personally I think undertaking should be legal, especially so on stretches of road with more than 3 lanes. Quite why it's considered less safe than overtaking I don't know, you have to look in your mirrors when changing lane regardless of which direction you're moving.
 
PMKeates said:
There is no universal 'safe speed' for every vehicle and every driver. Good cars with top spec tyres driven by people with some experience are safer at higher speeds than a crappy old knackered banger with boggo tyres and old biddy behind the wheel.
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I agree, but the chances are that the cars that are going faster are worse than your own and the person driving is probably thinking "why are people going so slowly... I can go fast... woo look at me passing all these expensive cars".
 
One said:
Personally I think undertaking should be legal, especially so on stretches of road with more than 3 lanes. Quite why it's considered less safe than overtaking I don't know, you have to look in your mirrors when changing lane regardless of which direction you're moving.
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If you're in a van, for example, it's very difficult/impossible to check your blind spot when moving out the other way. If you have people overtaking you on both sides it's much more dangerous.

Two bug-bears of mine on motorways/dual carriageways: cars creeping past then slowing down, as mentioned, and also cars overtaking and pulling in 5 inches from my front bumper. Seriously, WTF? Generally there's acres of space in front of me and often not even anyone else behind them, at least wait until you can see me in your rearview mirror!
 
There is so much that I agree with in this thread.

What has really been getting at me of late is the amount of people using their mobile phones when driving. I did ~160/170 miles around in a day last week, in Kent mainly on the A2, M20, M2 and A299 and was amazed at the amount of people either with their phone fixed at their ear, or head dropped down, one hand on wheel other firmly fixed to their phone - paying barely any attention to the road. I have to say it was mostly women, in a Audi TTs/BMW Z3's.

The other thing that really frustrated me was the speed that the foreign lorries were doing, and the condition of some of them; truly shocking.
 
So we have all complained about it, but the question is what can be done about it?

Other than improving driving lessons / test and police actually fining people for the above mentioned infringements I doubt it would ever change for the better.
 
One said:
Personally I think undertaking should be legal, especially so on stretches of road with more than 3 lanes. Quite why it's considered less safe than overtaking I don't know, you have to look in your mirrors when changing lane regardless of which direction you're moving.
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For the reasons you outline above (among others), undertaking in itself is not considered an offence under the Road Traffic Act.

Motorway undertaking is actually not illegal, there is no longer an offense called "undertaking". It is a practice that is advised against only under the Highway Code, but do not confuse the highway code with the Road Traffic Act. If you can undertake safely, with proper lane discipline you are not breaking any laws. The only law you could potentially break when "undertaking" is if you do it in a dangerous or aggressive fashion, such as moving from lane 3 to lane 1 to undertake, then moving back to lane 3. In this case a driver would be prosecuted for careless driving under section 3 of the 1988 Road Traffic Act.

I found this out a few years ago. I was driving on a 2 lane motorway at 70mph in lane 1. It was late evening and I had another car sitting a safe distance behind me in the same lane. We are safely moving to lane 2 to overtake slower vehicles and moving back to lane 1 when safe to do so. Eventually I came up to a Jaguar XF doing 55mph in lane 2, nothing wrong with this as it was overtaking a slower car in lane 1. I slowed down to 55 mph at a safe distance in lane 2, expecting the Jag to move to lane 1 when it was empty. Lo and behold this idiot decided to sit in lane 2 at 55 mph for about a minute, even though lane 1 was now completely clear. When I realised this moron was never going to move over, I moved into lane 1 and sped up to 70mph to undertake them.

After I got past the Jag, the car behind me, which was still in lane 2 started flashing all blue blights. It was an unmarked police car. My heart ended up in my throat and I indicated and began slowing down expecting to be given a ticket for "undertaking". So the Jaguar goes past me still doing 55mph and I swear the woman driving it was looking at me and laughing. Then the unmarked police car went past me with his lights still flashing. By this stage I am completely confused and think the police are pulling us both over. All three of us stop on the hard shoulder, the Jag in front, then the police car and me at the back.

One of the policemen walks to my car and I fumble to look for my driving licence, while the other officer goes to the idiot woman in the Jaguar. The policeman came up to my passenger side window so I open it, and asks me why I stopped. I explained I thought I was being done for undertaking and he looks all exasperated and said, "no sir, you have done nothing wrong, drive on please".

I couldn't resist giving the woman driving the Jaguar driver a smug look and a smile as I drove past. A quick Google on the internet when I got home revealed that undertaking is not an actual offence. It is the act of driving dangerously that is the offence and if you do undertake in a safe fashion then you are not breaking any laws under the Road Traffic Act. The lane hogging slow driver on the other hand is breaking the law. :)
 
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Dis86 said:
Echoing the middle lane drivers problem too. Had a drive down to Harrogate over the weekend and noticed something interesting. Every single person just sat in the middle lane was female or elderly. Possibly a coincidence but I'd say from the number of drivers that statistically it's otherwise...
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In my own experience (and rather depressingly) there's no correlation between driving demographics and middle lane hogs. I pass many every single day and it's done by all sorts of people - young, old, male, female. If it was regularly one particular type of person, it might at least explain it, but unfortunately, it just seems that nearly everyone on the roads just doesn't understand how to use them properly.

ICDP said:
For the reasons you outline above (among others), undertaking in itself is not considered an offence under the Road Traffic Act.

Motorway undertaking is actually not illegal, there is no longer an offense called "undertaking". It is a practice that is advised against only under the Highway Code, but do not confuse the highway code with the Road Traffic Act. If you can undertake safely, with proper lane discipline you are not breaking any laws. The only law you could potentially break when "undertaking" is if you do it in a dangerous or aggressive fashion, such as moving from lane 3 to lane 1 to undertake, then moving back to lane 3. In this case a driver would be prosecuted for careless driving under section 3 of the 1988 Road Traffic Act.

I found this out a few years ago. I was driving on a 2 lane motorway at 70mph in lane 1. It was late evening and I had another car sitting a safe distance behind me in the same lane. We are safely moving to lane 2 to overtake slower vehicles and moving back to lane 1 when safe to do so. Eventually I came up to a Jaguar XF doing 55mph in lane 2, nothing wrong with this as it was overtaking a slower car in lane 1. I slowed down to 55 mph at a safe distance in lane 2, expecting the Jag to move to lane 1 when it was empty. Lo and behold this idiot decided to sit in lane 2 at 55 mph for about a minute, even though lane 1 was now completely clear. When I realised this moron was never going to move over, I moved into lane 1 and sped up to 70mph to undertake them.

After I got past the Jag, the car behind me, which was still in lane 2 started flashing all blue blights. It was an unmarked police car. My heart ended up in my throat and I indicated and began slowing down expecting to be given a ticket for "undertaking". So the Jaguar goes past me still doing 55mph and I swear the woman driving it was looking at me and laughing. Then the unmarked police car went past me with his lights still flashing. By this stage I am completely confused and think the police are pulling us both over. All three of us stop on the hard shoulder, the Jag in front, then the police car and me at the back.

One of the policemen walks to my car and I fumble to look for my driving licence, while the other officer goes to the idiot woman in the Jaguar. The policeman came up to my passenger side window so I open it, and asks me why I stopped. I explained I thought I was being done for undertaking and he looks all exasperated and said, "no sir, you have done nothing wrong, drive on please".

I couldn't resist giving the woman driving the Jaguar driver a smug look and a smile as I drove past. A quick Google on the internet when I got home revealed that undertaking is not an actual offence. It is the act of driving dangerously that is the offence and if you do undertake in a safe fashion then you are not breaking any laws under the Road Traffic Act. The lane hogging slow driver on the other hand is breaking the law. :)
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This story gives me a little hope. I was pleased when they announced that police were to be given powers to pull over and fine lane hogs, naively thinking it might make a difference. Unfortunately, it relies on there actually being a police car on the motorway in the first place - something I genuinely cannot remember the last time I saw (apart from those in attendance at accident sites).
 
Conscript said:
This story gives me a little hope. I was pleased when they announced that police were to be given powers to pull over and fine lane hogs, naively thinking it might make a difference. Unfortunately, it relies on there actually being a police car on the motorway in the first place - something I genuinely cannot remember the last time I saw (apart from those in attendance at accident sites).
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Zeitgeist I suppose. The act of undertaking, referred to as "overtaking on the left" in the highway code was always allowed under certain circumstances. Such as the traffic in lane 2 was stopped/slowmoving and lane 1 was free.

So as long as it is safe and you exercise proper lane discipline you are not breaking any road traffic laws. Common sense required of course. I had someone try to argue that if you are undertaking and someone moves from the right lane into you, then you are 100% at fault. I laughed and explained that moving lanes, no matter what direction should never be done unless the lane you are moving to is clear. Moving to the left lane and assuming "sure it must be clear as undertaking is illegal", is your problem, not the other drivers. An example of this would be sitting stopped in lane 2 of a motorway, if lane 1 was free would you just drive into it without looking?
 
It sounds as though you were driving well (leaving gaps, good observation, indication etc...) and not behaving erratically which is undoubtedly why the police used their discretion and quite correctly concluded that you were not driving without due care and attention and you were being safe and "undertook" out of frustration.
 
Freefaller said:
It sounds as though you were driving well (leaving gaps, good observation, indication etc...) and not behaving erratically which is undoubtedly why the police used their discretion and quite correctly concluded that you were not driving without due care and attention and you were being safe and "undertook" out of frustration.
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Sums it up for me really.

I pretty much just cruise at 70mph indicated (around 65mph gps iirc) and stick to lane one, moving out to pass slower vehicles (sometimes this means lane one to lane three with morons on the roads) and often "pass on the left" especially in heavier traffic. I don't do it to get ahead or anything like that or even erratically, just cruise in an empty (generally) lane one until up to a slower vehicle, indicate, pull out to lane two when there is space, once a past, back to lane one. Often this means I'll end up passing lots of cars on the left and pulling into a space further ahead, just how it plays out really.

I've done it in front of and past police cars and as yet not been pulled, but it's fairly rare (for me, I don't do mega miles) to see a police car on the motorway enforcing things other than blatant speeding anyway.
 
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