Muhammad Ali V Rocky Marciano.

Von Smallhausen · 4 Sep 2006 at 18:43

This is basically the fight that never was but in 1970, both fought using a NCR 135 computer to simulate it, the 135 being the most state of the art computer at the time. Marciano won by a knockout but I wonder what the real outcome would have been if both of them had fought in the ring in their prime.

Muhammad Ali was a magnificent specimen of a fighter with everything. Looks, physique, speed, stamina, footwork and although not known as a devastating fighter, he could despatch when called for as 37 KOs in his career of 61 fights is testament to.

Rocky Marciano remains the only heavyweight to have retired as champion with a perfect record 0f 49-0. He was never defeated and the only man to come close was Larry Holmes in 1985 when he was on 49-0 when he fought Michael Spinks and was beaten on points in a bitterly disputed fight. Marciano was small by heavyweight standards, 13st, and was not a particularly skillful fighter but his stamina was legendary and he was almost as fresh in the 15th round as he was in the first and his punch power was simply devastating. His famous right hand or Suzie Q, put many a world class heavyweight on the canvas.

I personally believe that Ali would have won either on points or on cuts, although it would have been a bruising contest. I would be interested to see what anyone else thinks the result would be.

Ali or Marciano ?

red11 · 4 Sep 2006 at 18:48

Ali, but it would be one hell of a fight, close one though, I can't picture one of them being much more dominant than the other.

I think Ali's size would be the deciding factor.

memphisto · 4 Sep 2006 at 18:59

i owuld say ~Ali would have the speed and reach to keep marciano at bay, but if marciano ghot a couple of his right handed body shots in I think it would be a different picture.

Pigeon_Killer · 4 Sep 2006 at 19:07

I'm a big boxing fan but I've sadly not watched much of either boxer as they were both before my time. From the little I have seen I would say that the reach advantage, Ali had over Marciano, would prove to be the key. I think he would've jabbed his way to a points victory much like Lewis did to Tua a few years back.

Von Smallhausen · 4 Sep 2006 at 19:23

Pigeon_Killer said:
I'm a big boxing fan but I've sadly not watched much of either boxer as they were both before my time. From the little I have seen I would say that the reach advantage, Ali had over Marciano, would prove to be the key. I think he would've jabbed his way to a points victory much like Lewis did to Tua a few years back.

Honestly mate, you are missing some of the best fights ever to be shown. It's well worth getting them if you can. A particular fight I love to watch is Muhammad Ali v Cleveland Williams in 1966. It was Ali in his absolute prime and the most skillful 3 rounds of boxing you will ever see. Ali was simply flawless.

thebrasso · 4 Sep 2006 at 20:06

I would take Ali because his handspeed and footwork would mean Marciano wouldn't get near him. That and Marciano would need a ladder.

However I don't think Ali would knock Marciano out, it would probably go the distance or get stopped on cuts.

semi-pro waster · 4 Sep 2006 at 20:09

I believe Ali is the best there has been to date and possibly ever will be so therefore I struggle to imagine any other result than an Ali win although I'd agree points being the most likely outcome(it might depend on the judges and location though). Marciano was one of the toughest competitors there has been but Ali in his prime would have been too smart to get drawn into a brawl when he had a good reach advantage and the knowledge that a standup fight would suit Marciano more.

From what I know The Rumble in the Jungle aside Ali didn't tend to allow himself to stay still and accept punishment, that fight as I saw it was an exercise in humiliation, simply to show that he could take the best that Foreman had to offer and stay standing.

THE DOC · 4 Sep 2006 at 20:20

marciano for me ,too much strenght for ali ,his punching power was legendery it was known that fighter could not use there arms for days after fighting rocky [trying to defend themselves from punches] rocky marciano was a freak of nature considering how light he was compaired to now a days ,i personaly dont think ali could take his non stop hitting style .

Big Kev · 4 Sep 2006 at 20:39

Ali would have had the necessary attributes to beat Marciano, but his never say die attitude, supreme conditioning and Suzie Q would have meant that Ali would have had a serious test and had to be alert for the whole 15 rounds.

I think Ali would probably have won, but there would have been some hairy moments and he would have been tested to the limit.

I know Von would have been disappointed if I didn't say this, but Sir Larry Holmes would have beaten both of them.

dannyjo22 · 4 Sep 2006 at 20:43

memphisto said:
i owuld say ~Ali would have the speed and reach to keep marciano at bay, but if marciano ghot a couple of his right handed body shots in I think it would be a different picture.

Yeah I agree totally with that, infact with every fighter at their prime the only one I can see beating him would be Tyson. I believe Liston should have too, without outside influence.

Sure RM would work Ali's body as best he could but Ali could cover up well enough and keep picking him off for fun. RM used to like to punch arms too to stop a fighter raising his hands so fast, but I can't see ali falling into that trap.

Von Smallhausen · 4 Sep 2006 at 21:21

Big Kev said:
I know Von would have been disappointed if I didn't say this, but Sir Larry Holmes would have beaten both of them.

* bangs head off brick wall *

Von Smallhausen · 4 Sep 2006 at 21:28

semi-pro waster said:
From what I know The Rumble in the Jungle aside Ali didn't tend to allow himself to stay still and accept punishment, that fight as I saw it was an exercise in humiliation, simply to show that he could take the best that Foreman had to offer and stay standing.

I think he did it as he couldn't stand toe to toe with Foreman and instead allowed him to wear himself out before launching the attack from the ropes and decking Foreman in the 8th to win.

Joe Frazier and Ken Norton both tried to fight Foreman toe to toe and both were battered senseless.

Big Kev · 4 Sep 2006 at 21:30

Von Smallhausen said:
* bangs head off brick wall *

Want some help with that.

Von Smallhausen · 4 Sep 2006 at 21:31

Big Kev said:
Want some help with that.

LOLLAGE !!!!!

sc(+)pe · 5 Sep 2006 at 00:02

I honestly don't know.

Head says Ali
Heart says Marciano

For those that really like their boxing you should keep an eye on Sky channel 442 ESPN Classic. I have seen about 5 or 6 great boxing documentaries/biographys and they have all been brilliant.
I have to say the Jack Johnson and Rocky Marciano shows were amazing.

Smit · 5 Sep 2006 at 09:00

Ali would probably win.

Valuev is fast approaching 50 - 0

mcdermos · 5 Sep 2006 at 09:08

Come on who else thought of Coming To America

4T5 · 5 Sep 2006 at 09:22

Been thinking about this since yesterday and i still wouldn't put my money down on one particular fighter.
Being an old git i remember what Ali was like and really there is nothing that compares to him, Period.
Having said that i don't think Alis' usual tactics would have worked with Rocky.
Knowing boxing like i do from those days the result of the fight would have unfortunetly been decided outside the ring.
This thread is speculation though on an actual fight with no outside influences so ;
I cannot believe that Ali would have been able to knock out Rocky as he just could not and would not go down. Cuts yes that's what would have stopped the fight if it didn't go the distance.
Odviously once it had gone the distance Ali would win on points as his hand speed and work rate was phenominal. When you watched him live (tv) you couldn't see his hands moving only his opponents head moving back as it was struck. Dazzling footwork used to leave his opponent punching air, he was truly amazing in the ring.
Rocky is one tuff dude though, probably the tuffest boxer ever so you can be sure that he will be on Ali every second pounding away at his body. If Ali can take that till the end of a 15 rounder i wouldn't know.
Just thinking about this fight has excited me so cheers for that mate.

Von Smallhausen · 5 Sep 2006 at 16:14

mcdermos said:
Come on who else thought of Coming To America

Coming To America said:
Saul: Goddammit. If a man wants to call himself Muhammed Ali, I say Muhammed Ali.
Clarence: Mama call him Clay - I call him Clay. Cassius Clay.

Coming To America said:
Clarence: Oh there they go. There they go, every time I start talkin 'bout boxing, a white man got to pull Rocky Marciano out their ass. That's their one, that's their one. Rocky Marciano. Rocky Marciano. Let me tell you something once and for all. Rocky Marciano was good, but compared to Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano ain't ***.

Old Jewish Guy: He beat Joe Louis's ass.

Clarence: Joe Louis was 137 years old.

malc30 said:
Being an old git i remember what Ali was like and really there is nothing that compares to him, Period.

Agreed. It's Big Kev you have to convince.

Having said that i don't think Alis' usual tactics would have worked with Rocky.

Agreed again. Marciano would have been swinging his club like punches to Ali's arms to wear him down and Ali would not have known that before and would have to go for the jab and move.

I cannot believe that Ali would have been able to knock out Rocky as he just could not and would not go down. Cuts yes that's what would have stopped the fight if it didn't go the distance.

I think the same. Although Marciano had the tools to put him down, I think Ali would have been too quick for the right hand to connect, although Ali was dropped 4 times in his career including the 1971 fight against Joe Frazier and the left hook in slow motion that does it is the best single punch I have seen thrown.

Odviously once it had gone the distance Ali would win on points as his hand speed and work rate was phenominal. When you watched him live (tv) you couldn't see his hands moving only his opponents head moving back as it was struck. Dazzling footwork used to leave his opponent punching air, he was truly amazing in the ring.

For proof of this his fights against Brian London 1n 1966 and Cleveland Williams the same year show this. The flurry of punches that finishes off London are a blur as you cannot see his hands move it is that fast and his footwork and handspeed against Williams is the most complete display I have seen.

rayb74 · 5 Sep 2006 at 16:29

Ali good fighter but also a show man and a con in the ring look at the controversy surrounding the rumble in the jungle, Foreman was stitched good and proper.
My verdict, Tyson would have destroyed both of them in his prime before he destroyed himself (with the help of that moron King).