Muslim woman wearing veil 'refused bus ride' in London

[Merlin5]

You don't see people referred to as 'Christian Women' do you?

Yes if they dress like a nun.

 

[Tefal]

As far as I'm aware and have had Muslims tell me the same.

No offence but that really is meaningless, especially when you see "but extremists don't speak for the billion moderates" a hand full of moderates don't speak for the billion other Muslims moderate or otherwise, there's just too many and too many interpretations for anyone to claim to speak for the whole.

 

[eatcustard]

In winter I often walk around with a scarf over my mouth and nose, hat pulled down, basically only showing my eyes. As far as I'm aware no one has ever been in "fear" of me not showing my face.

Winter does not last 12 months (except Scotland) does it

They when you get to your destination, you take it off.

 

[starfighter]

Forget religion and race, this is about someone entering a bus with a hat on that covers their face. That is all.

Are we going to ban long hats or is that stupid?

Otherwise you are just discriminating against Muslims. Anyway I give up. We can only hope this radicalises a few more muslims and they blow up some people on here.


What is unfair imho is that Muslim children get away with wearing head gear at school yet white kids can't wear their baseball caps etc. That is unfair.

It should be one rule for all, otherwise it gets complicated.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Well if you will treat people of a different religion as 2nd class citizens and make the adhere to different rules then that is what you can expect.

So people who find women dressed entirely in black with only eyes visible intimidating deserve to be brutally murdered?

You are bizarre.

It's human nature to be intimidated by unusual things. If you pop into an African village wearing a business suit and driving an S Class Mercedes, the villages will be intimidated by you. If you walk around a posh, expensive housing estate at night with a rucksack and a black hoody, hood up, people will be intimidated by you. If you walk around a Western European city dressed entirely in a black robe and a full face covering, people will be intimidated by you.

Whether people are right to be intimidated or not, or whether they are irrational, doesn't change the fact that they are intimidated by it. They do not consider it normal and do not know what to think.

You must therefore bear this in mind when you chose to do things, surely?

 

[Merlin5]

Well if you will treat people of a different religion as 2nd class citizens and make the adhere to different rules then that is what you can expect.

Oh sorry, I could have sworn it's muslims treating non muslims as 2nd class citizens in the United Kingdom of Great Islam and Northern Ireland. *slaps myself on the wrist*

 

[starfighter]

So people who find women dressed entirely in black with only eyes visible intimidating deserve to be brutally murdered?

You are bizarre.

It's human nature to be intimidated by unusual things. If you pop into an African village wearing a business suit and driving an S Class Mercedes, the villages will be intimidated by you. If you walk around a posh, expensive housing estate at night with a rucksack and a black hoody, hood up, people will be intimidated by you. If you walk around a Western European city dressed entirely in a black robe and a full face covering, people will be intimidated by you.

Whether people are right to be intimidated or not, or whether they are irrational, doesn't change the fact that they are intimidated by it. They do not consider it normal and do not know what to think.

You must therefore bear this in mind when you chose to do things, surely?

I don't care about "intimidation". sorry but that is a really bad thing to decide policy. Some people are intimidated by dogs, some by fast cars, some by youths, we can't just ban everything until no one is scared of anything any more. Otherwise where will it end.

Sure we could do it on the basis of what is "normal" and what offends "most people" but then society would be stuck in the dark ages. There is nothing wrong with being in the minority or different.

This is a free country and people should be able to dress how they like.

All I am saying is that if you are going to ban Burkhas you have to also ban other clothing that covers the face as logically it has exactly the same safety risk.

If you ban only ban Burkhas you are specifically targeting Muslims.

and so now a few people don't get (irrationally) offended. Where as if anyone wanted to actually commit a crime they would wear one of the billion other face covering items of clothing.

If all clothing that covered the face was banned then I wouldn't be happy as I prefer freedom to safety but at least it wouldn't be discrimination.

 

[starfighter]

Oh sorry, I could have sworn it's muslims treating non muslims as 2nd class citizens in the United Kingdom of Great Islam and Northern Ireland. *slaps myself on the wrist*

The UK is a mainly Christian country, so what, it doesn't mean different religions can't live together. a decent % of taxpayers and voters are Muslim. Get over it.

 

[mmj_uk]

If all Christians decided to walk around naked like Adam and Eve I'm sure the police/government wouldn't hesitate to wade in heavy handedly, walking around in a garment that leaves only the eyes uncovered is as equally uncivilized and extremely anti-social in a "big society" where we're all supposed to be integrating.

If Muslims are unwilling to meet us half way then we're just going to become more and more segregated to the point where groups like the EDL gain in popularity, Hijab's would be a happy medium but it seems that it's the British who must bend over time and time again to accomodate the inflexible Muslim religion.

 

[Oxide™]

Why can't very few Muslims just respect the fact that in this Country we are not (yet..) an Islamic State and whilst the great majority of British people respect your different religion/views we do not wish them forced upon us in any shape of form, if you don't like it, then leave and go somewhere they agree with your views. Simple.

+1

So when I go to Dubai I'll just walk around in their religious areas with my wife not covering up. When someone refuses us on a bus I'll record the driver and moan about how our rights are being repressed.

Then I'll post the experience on the interwebs for people to bash me for not respecting their views but it's the exact same thing that's occuring here and most of you don't see it as a problem

Imho wearing a helmet is more revealing than a niqab but yet helmets are banned in places like banks but niqabs aren't? double standards much?

It will take one terrorist to wear a niqab and kill people for this issue to be debated properly, why not just make full face covering illegal now? or else refer back to doofer's quote above

 

[starfighter]

If all Christians decided to walk around naked like Adam and Eve I'm sure the police/government wouldn't hesitate to wade in heavy handedly, walking around in a garment that leaves only the eyes uncovered is as equally uncivilized and extremely anti-social in a "big society" where we're all supposed to be integrating.

If Muslims are unwilling to meet us half way then we're just going to become more and more segregated to the point where groups like the EDL gain in popularity, Hijab's would be a happy medium but it seems that it's the British who must bend over time and time again to accomodate the inflexible Muslim religion.

It isn't like that at all. if you walked around naked you would get arrested regardless of religion or race.

what is being suggested here is that some items of clothing with a particular name generally worn by a certain faith very rarely, be banned, while other items of clothing that cover similar amounts of face are not.

It's discrimination, plain and simple.

If analogies is what you need then It's like saying you can wear a necklace with a triangle on but can't wear one with a cross because those are dangerous, when technically they are as bad/good as each other.

You have to have a blanket ban on all clothing that covers the face or don;t ban any of it. Targeting the clothing specifically worn by a certain minority will rightfully so cause hatred of the government.

 

[starfighter]

+1

So when I go to Dubai I'll just walk around in their religious areas with my wife not covering up. When someone refuses us on a bus I'll record the driver and moan about how our rights are being repressed.

Then I'll post the experience on the interwebs for people to bash me for not respecting their views but it's the exact same thing that's occuring here and most of you don't see it as a problem

Imho wearing a helmet is more revealing than a niqab but yet helmets are banned in places like banks but niqabs aren't? double standards much?

It will take one terrorist to wear a niqab and kill people for this issue to be debated properly, why not just make full face covering illegal now? or else refer back to doofer's quote above

Why is it a case of "they are intolerant to us, so we are going to be intolerant to them"

I know we are better than that. We should strive to create the ideal country and ignore what the others are doing and let them live in their backwards ways. freedom and tolerance is what the UK is about, not silly traditions.

 

[eatcustard]

Well if you will treat people of a different religion as 2nd class citizens and make the adhere to different rules then that is what you can expect.

You are right, Christians are 2nd class the the people of the peaceful religion

So what do you expect us to do, love them?

 

[Moley]

We should strive to create the ideal country and ignore what the others are doing and let them live in their backwards ways.

Why should we strive in this way when others wont? This just leads to a society where the "striver's" bend over backwards to accommodate the "others" who because they are (to use your words) backward and don't strive to make a better place end up taking advantage of those who are accommodating them.

 

[Oxide™]

starfighter I agree with what you say about having a blanket ban - that's kind of my point, helmets etc are banned, why should it be a big turned-into-a-religious-issue if asked to not wear a full face covering garment?

I don't see anything wrong with what the bus driver did - I would have expected him to do the same if someone boarded a bus with a helmet, balaclava, paper bag over their head.

What grates me is they had to film the driver and turn it into some religious/cultural thing which it isn't (or shouldn't be)

 

[Destination]

I'm sure even you can tell that there is a slight bit of difference between a balaclava/helmet and a veil.

Tell that to the men who died in Iraq when the chap dressed a 'lady' blew himself up inside the security barrier.

Yes there is a difference of course.
I wonder who has the right to refuse entry on that network, the network or the driver? Shouldn't take long to investigate.

 

[Tikkabhuna]

I propose a ban on full face veils and the all in one dress kinda thing because it is impossible to see how hot a woman is when she's wearing it. It's an outrage that the average man is not allowed to get a good impression of a woman's #/10 because she's wearing one of those things!

 

[Oxide™]

Tell that to the men who died in Iraq when the chap dressed a 'lady' blew himself up inside the security barrier.

...

Exactly why there should be a blanket ban on full face covering - it won't be long until terrorists use this as an advantage to move about freely (if they don't already)

also helmets reveal more of your face than niqabs do so there's a difference right away

If they have a blanket ban and you still can't adhere to it then my view would be either respect our laws, like we do (or should) when we are in Muslim states, or simply go somewhere else where it isn't banned

 

[Von Smallhausen]

Some posts have been removed due to personal insults and/or comments that are not warranted.

I sometimes wonder if debate is a dying art. Please keep it civil folks. Thank you.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Tell that to the men who died in Iraq when the chap dressed a 'lady' blew himself up inside the security barrier.

The trouble is, that's a fairly niche case. Besides, they could have just as easily blown themselves up without the veil, as I very much doubt they had the bomb strapped to their face.