MX5 Owners in here....bring your curling tongs

DereksDontRun · 2 Jun 2016 at 22:37

wesimmo said:
I was told that the Mk3 didn't have enough bolting points for the manifold so any high temps irrespective of choice of FI could risk warping the manifolds, how true that is I don't know.

The person who told me is no fan of BBR so I took it with a pinch of salt at the time.

it's true - looking at the manifold mounting points:

afaik, it starts to warp and leak basically in the top-middle of that image where there's a missing bolt between the 2 ports - if there was a bolt there it would solve a lot of problems. But, saying that, if that's the weakest point and the 1st point of a leak, what's to stop it leaking top-right, or elsewhere where there isn't a bolt, when the 1st weak link is fixed?!?

When I looked at the Blink kit the manifold was a massively thick beast of a plate to help with this. I seem to remember they also ceramic coated all the bits to help with heat too.

Jasebta · 2 Jun 2016 at 22:38

Rich1988 said:
What power is your 5 running at? they quote 262bhp on BBR website but mine is making 275 when it was dynoed by bbr last year, wondering if this is a common thing?

Sorry missed your question! Dyno'd at 299 and is pretty much their stage 2 except I have an IL Motorsport / BBK backbox.

Rich1988 · 2 Jun 2016 at 22:58

Jasebta said:
Sorry missed your question! Dyno'd at 299 and is pretty much their stage 2 except I have an IL Motorsport / BBK backbox.

Do you get lots of popping on overrun on yours? Mine seems to pop and bang on overrun a fair amount, does the manifold cat get removed for the install?

scaza · 2 Jun 2016 at 22:58

See, my problem is I'm way too tight to go and spend 5k on a turbo. Might just have to make do with a manifold swap and a remap for the time being.

wesimmo · 3 Jun 2016 at 00:03

scaza said:
See, my problem is I'm way too tight to go and spend 5k on a turbo. Might just have to make do with a manifold swap and a remap for the time being.

Modifying cars or, indeed, buying fast cars are a fool's errand, according to my old man.

But then he spends hundreds of pounds, if not thousands, being a member of a club and flying to walk round a massive field hitting expensive white objects with expensive bits of metal carried in an expensive bag that is rolled around on an expensive electric cart.

And wearing expensive clothes designed to make you look like an idiot.

Will · 3 Jun 2016 at 00:21

DereksDontRun said:
it's true - looking at the manifold mounting points:

afaik, it starts to warp and leak basically in the top-middle of that image where there's a missing bolt between the 2 ports - if there was a bolt there it would solve a lot of problems. But, saying that, if that's the weakest point and the 1st point of a leak, what's to stop it leaking top-right, or elsewhere where there isn't a bolt, when the 1st weak link is fixed?!?

When I looked at the Blink kit the manifold was a massively thick beast of a plate to help with this. I seem to remember they also ceramic coated all the bits to help with heat too.

BBR changed their manifold design to solve the problem, all turbo kits sold now come with a cast alloy manifold with a seriously thick flange, 3/4 inch I think it is now. No way it'd warp now, the old stainless tubular design did have problems on a handful of cars but the problem was blown into a massive thing by Paul Roddison who has something of an axe to grind with BBR as they'd already fallen out over warranty work on the cars Paul had sold with the bbr turbo kit (some owners had issues with the kit caused by installation error at roddisons, and these customers ended up having to go direct to bbr to get them fixed - Paul blamed the hardware, BBR got fed up with sorting out someone else's installation issues, and the animosity just grew from there).

DereksDontRun · 3 Jun 2016 at 08:22

Will said:
BBR changed their manifold design to solve the problem, all turbo kits sold now come with a cast alloy manifold with a seriously thick flange, 3/4 inch I think it is now. No way it'd warp now, the old stainless tubular design did have problems on a handful of cars but the problem was blown into a massive thing

I know they've improved their design, possibly as much as they can, but they still state it's not suitable for hard track use - so, to me that sounds like it can still warp and/or have problems...

Paul Roddison who has something of an axe to grind with BBR as they'd already fallen out over warranty work on the cars Paul had sold with the bbr turbo kit (some owners had issues with the kit caused by installation error at roddisons, and these customers ended up having to go direct to bbr to get them fixed - Paul blamed the hardware, BBR got fed up with sorting out someone else's installation issues, and the animosity just grew from there).

The history between BBR and Roddisons kept coming up in those posts on MX5 Nutz, which just seemed to devalue both "brands" as they both seemed to get tarnished (in my mind) and thus why I chose to get work done at Blink over Roddisons when I lived in the middle of the 2.

There seems to be a massive difference in cost FI-ing a mk3 (or newer) compared to the mk1 or 2 - is that the additional complications with the newer ecu, etc?

Rich1988 · 3 Jun 2016 at 08:24

I think a lot of it is to do with space, they really pack them in in the newer ones, there is plenty of workable space in the older models, I dont think (from memory) that the new ones even need a standalone ECU so in that respect they are easier I would imagine?

Frozennova · 3 Jun 2016 at 08:49

Correct, however the overall cost in terms of management is somewhere close when you compare the cost of an ECUTek license and a Standalone ECU for a MK1/2 (Reverent MS2 Enhanced at £550ish and ME221 at a similar price)

lordrobs · 3 Jun 2016 at 09:24

4T5 said:
Email my Trust & I'll pass on Junkyarddogs mobile number, You can give him a ring then if he hasn't got one he'll put you on to someone who has.

Cheers mate, got your email.

Jasebta · 3 Jun 2016 at 09:47

Rich1988 said:
Do you get lots of popping on overrun on yours? Mine seems to pop and bang on overrun a fair amount, does the manifold cat get removed for the install?

Yeah I think the manifold cat is removed, so that along with the midpipe replacement has made it a fair bit louder and I do get a few louder pops on overrun, as well as a burble when warm which I can't really hear when the roof is up. Love the sound though!

wesimmo · 3 Jun 2016 at 10:28

DereksDontRun said:
I know they've improved their design, possibly as much as they can, but they still state it's not suitable for hard track use - so, to me that sounds like it can still warp and/or have problems...
The history between BBR and Roddisons kept coming up in those posts on MX5 Nutz, which just seemed to devalue both "brands" as they both seemed to get tarnished (in my mind) and thus why I chose to get work done at Blink over Roddisons when I lived in the middle of the 2.

There seems to be a massive difference in cost FI-ing a mk3 (or newer) compared to the mk1 or 2 - is that the additional complications with the newer ecu, etc?

Is it not also that the Mk2 especially was based on a turbo block from an older Mazda model, so you even have blanked off oil feeds for a turbo, hence the whole engine including manifold mounts is ready for FI.

Frozennova · 3 Jun 2016 at 10:43

wesimmo said:
Is it not also that the Mk2 especially was based on a turbo block from an older Mazda model, so you even have blanked off oil feeds for a turbo, hence the whole engine including manifold mounts is ready for FI.

That's only the early mk1 though isn't it? I thought later mk1s and on you had to either T into the oil pressure switch or take off from the back of the head?

MrKnifey · 3 Jun 2016 at 20:05

I might just buy a turbo/supercharged five as a donor to run for the summer im thinking!

lordrobs · 4 Jun 2016 at 09:33

Has anyone run an FI mk1/2 for a prolonged period of time on here? Most of the time people seem to turbo or supercharge them then shift them on pretty quickly afterwards. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has run one for a few years just how well they stand up to the extra power.

This is just out of interest, my one is just only used for sedate runs down to the coast these days and is therefore staying stock!

wesimmo · 4 Jun 2016 at 11:12

Frozennova said:
That's only the early mk1 though isn't it? I thought later mk1s and on you had to either T into the oil pressure switch or take off from the back of the head?

I don't know TBH, I thought I'd read that one of the advantages of the MX5 block was that it was ready for FI, but my supercharger has a self contained cooling and lubrication system so it was never a big concern for me.

That said I am thinking of just dumping the supercharger and dropping a turbo in its place, the belt system is just too much hassle the way it is and it would be a fairly cheap and easy swap given I've got everything I need in place aside from the manifold, turbo and downpipe.

If I sold the supercharger and bought a recon turbo it probably wouldn't be much of a net cost at all.

wesimmo · 4 Jun 2016 at 11:15

lordrobs said:
Has anyone run an FI mk1/2 for a prolonged period of time on here? Most of the time people seem to turbo or supercharge them then shift them on pretty quickly afterwards. It would be interesting to hear from someone who has run one for a few years just how well they stand up to the extra power.

This is just out of interest, my one is just only used for sedate runs down to the coast these days and is therefore staying stock!

My only issue with my Supercharged one is the belt keeps snapping, but aside from that I love it when it works.

It's expensive, running 220bhp I get about 160 miles to a tank but then 70% of my driving is an 8 mile trek to work in traffic. When I go on long journeys in 6th gear all the way it's another 100 miles on the range. Even booting it around for a good day driving session at high revs and letting the engine get up to temperature for the duration is more economical.

Hence why I've invested in another car for day to day.

MrKnifey · 4 Jun 2016 at 13:16

I think I'd prefer a supercharged mx5 to a turbo one! Meh tempted to buy one!

InvaderGIR · 4 Jun 2016 at 13:42

Frozennova said:
That's only the early mk1 though isn't it? I thought later mk1s and on you had to either T into the oil pressure switch or take off from the back of the head?

The Japanese market got a stock turbo on the mk2 / NB with the BPT engine, but I don't know if the block is/was shared between all other markets...I think the US also got it, just appears to be a turboed version of the NA 1.8: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_B_engine#BPT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_MX-5#Second_generation_.28NB.29

If you watch Tom's V8 conversion videos, on the tear down one he removes the stock turboed unit: http://www.v8mazda.com/updates/update1/01_the_plan_and_teardown_begins.html

MrKnifey · 4 Jun 2016 at 14:39

More on my project anyways, might spur someone to sell me there MX5?

I present what will be the Fiazda MXR2!