My 200mph budget build

turbotoaster · 29 Mar 2010 at 02:04

i did consider that, infact that would work fine on stock fuel pressure and small injectors and i have seen it plumbed like that on another car, that might infact be a better option as it saves using a few Y pieces, the only concern is the flow.

Im going to be using 12.7mm fuel line from the pumps to the rails, because of the internal size of the stock small rail there would be a restriction in the flow of the system.

By running them in parellel with 2 9.65mm i wont get that restriction problem, the only restriction will be the FPR which is its job anyway.

There are many ways to break an egg and with unlimited budget this build would look completely different than it currently is, but due to the budget i have set myself i need to be very careful in my designs because every penny spent is a penny i cant get back.

Baz · 29 Mar 2010 at 11:27

Looking great!

Only wish I had the time to do something like this.. :|

turbotoaster · 29 Mar 2010 at 18:03

it really doesnt take a lot of time to do, its more planning than actually practical that spent most of my time and even that was just the odd hour a day researching and thinking.

I think anyone with a decent grasp of engineering, logical thinking and a bit of passion could achieve everything im going to do

turbotoaster · 2 Apr 2010 at 22:03

Ordered one of these today, should be with me next week.

It bolts onto the throttle body, the reason i went for this is as you see, it steps up in size about an inch along, but luckily it also steps up inside by the same amount, now normally the narrow part is where you bolt your silicone pipe from the intercooler to.

But because of the power im going for i dont want any reduction in piping from the my turbo to my throttle body im going to be cutting the smaller piece off and putting the silicone pipe directly over the larger part as thats 80mm in diameter, just like my intercooler.

Dup · 2 Apr 2010 at 22:05

Will you need to fabricate a lip to ensure the silicone doesn't pop off?

turbotoaster · 3 Apr 2010 at 00:55

nope, the metal pipe coming from the intercooler to the elbow will be the same length as the distance between the 2 parts so that the metal will be almost touching, this will mean the silicone will only have a very small area in which is will be subjected to the 2bar+ of pressure

like so:

86JR · 3 Apr 2010 at 08:43

Have you got any videos of your car on youtube etc ?

turbotoaster · 3 Apr 2010 at 19:22

nope, have never really needed to film it, got one where im testing out a £7 mini-camcorder but im only driving at normal speed in traffic so its not exciting at all

jamjar1383 · 3 Apr 2010 at 22:54

turbotoaster said:
nope, have never really needed to film it, got one where im testing out a £7 mini-camcorder but im only driving at normal speed in traffic so its not exciting at all

i saw that one, lol
nice bit of under taking on it lmao

Ryan-3 · 4 Apr 2010 at 11:53

Is it the 3Rotor engine with the Twin Turbos, or the other one with the single

silversurfer · 4 Apr 2010 at 15:37

Just some random stuff I collected on drag calculations

Code:

F = 0.5 C ?A V2

Notation
(ft=feet, g=gram, hr=hour, kg=kilogram, lb=Pound (force), m=meter, N=Newton, s=second)
Our calculation allows you to use a variety of units with all of the conversions completed internally. The units below are consistent units for the drag force equation.
A = Reference area as (see figures above), m2.
C = Drag coefficient (see figures above), unitless.
F = Drag force, N.
V = Velocity, m/s.
? = Density of fluid (liquid or gas), kg/m3.

Drag coefficients for various objects (photographs taken by Ken Edwards).





    *  Object --- (CD)
    * A typical bicycle plus cyclist --- (0.9)
    * Rough sphere (Re = 1,000,000) --- (0.4)
    * smooth sphere (Re = 1,000,000) --- (0.1)
    * Turbulent flow parallel to a flat plate (Re = 1,000,000) --- (0.005)
    * Laminar flow parallel to a flat plate (Re = 1,000,000) --- (0.001)
    * Hummer H2 (2003) --- (0.57)
    * Ford Mustang Fastback (1979) --- (0.44)
    * Chevrolet Camaro (1995) --- (0.338)
    * Toyota Prius (2004 - 2009) --- (0.26)
    * Bullet at subsonic velocity --- (0.295)
    * Man in upright position --- (1.0 - 1.3)
    * Flow perpendicular to a long flat plate --- (1.98 - 2.0)
    * Skier --- (1.0 - 1.1)
    * Wires and cables --- (1.0 - 1.3)
    * Empire State Building --- (1.3 - 1.5)
    * Eiffel Tower --- (1.8 - 2.0)




Example Calculation

Problem: Calculate the drag force on a 3" diameter rough sphere moving through the air at 90 miles per hour, with an air temperature of 50oF and air pressure of 14.7 psi.

Solution: The density of air at the specified conditions can be calculated using the ideal gas law: ? = (MW)(P/RT) = (29)(14.7/([345.23(50 + 459.67)] = 0.0002423 slugs/ft3.

The velocity needs to be converted to ft/sec: V = (90 mi/hr)(5280 ft/mi)/(3600 sec/hr) = 132 ft/sec.

The frontal area of the sphere is: A = ?D2/4 = ?(3/12)2/4 = 0.04906 ft2.

The value of CD from the table above is 0.4

Finally, substitute values into the drag force equation: FD = CD(1/2)?V2A = (0.4)(1/2)(0.002423)(1322)(0.04906) = 0.414 lb


(.31) (0.5) (0.0002423 ) (86907.04) (19.2673)  =  62.887007658866248  lb


294.8
0.00036345
86907.04
1.79 m² = 19.2673 ft²
OR 19 ft² and 38.50 in²

http://carspector.com/car/mazda/040681

Whats the max power and speed of this car prior to modding ?

I have a big car book listing details of every uk car sold in 1989. It has the Rx-7 down as being 205bhp and max 145mph. A 'twin scroll' single turbo from hitachi apparently. Only cost 21k , bargain

Mx5 was 10k back then :eek:

Mazda RX-7 (86-96)
Going on parkers info and the 8x rule a rough calc of power needed would be 626bhp and obviously much more then that if you wanted more then a crawl leading upto the top speed

turbotoaster · 5 Apr 2010 at 01:12

Ryan-3 said:
Is it the 3Rotor engine with the Twin Turbos, or the other one with the single

who are you talking about sorry.
the 3rotor with twin turbos was racing beats car in america that did 242mph are you on about a certain top speed one or something else

silversurfer said:

Just some random stuff I collected on drag calculations

Code:

F = 0.5 C ?A V2

Notation
(ft=feet, g=gram, hr=hour, kg=kilogram, lb=Pound (force), m=meter, N=Newton, s=second)
Our calculation allows you to use a variety of units with all of the conversions completed internally. The units below are consistent units for the drag force equation.
A = Reference area as (see figures above), m2.
C = Drag coefficient (see figures above), unitless.
F = Drag force, N.
V = Velocity, m/s.
? = Density of fluid (liquid or gas), kg/m3.

Drag coefficients for various objects (photographs taken by Ken Edwards).





    *  Object --- (CD)
    * A typical bicycle plus cyclist --- (0.9)
    * Rough sphere (Re = 1,000,000) --- (0.4)
    * smooth sphere (Re = 1,000,000) --- (0.1)
    * Turbulent flow parallel to a flat plate (Re = 1,000,000) --- (0.005)
    * Laminar flow parallel to a flat plate (Re = 1,000,000) --- (0.001)
    * Hummer H2 (2003) --- (0.57)
    * Ford Mustang Fastback (1979) --- (0.44)
    * Chevrolet Camaro (1995) --- (0.338)
    * Toyota Prius (2004 - 2009) --- (0.26)
    * Bullet at subsonic velocity --- (0.295)
    * Man in upright position --- (1.0 - 1.3)
    * Flow perpendicular to a long flat plate --- (1.98 - 2.0)
    * Skier --- (1.0 - 1.1)
    * Wires and cables --- (1.0 - 1.3)
    * Empire State Building --- (1.3 - 1.5)
    * Eiffel Tower --- (1.8 - 2.0)




Example Calculation

Problem: Calculate the drag force on a 3" diameter rough sphere moving through the air at 90 miles per hour, with an air temperature of 50oF and air pressure of 14.7 psi.

Solution: The density of air at the specified conditions can be calculated using the ideal gas law: ? = (MW)(P/RT) = (29)(14.7/([345.23(50 + 459.67)] = 0.0002423 slugs/ft3.

The velocity needs to be converted to ft/sec: V = (90 mi/hr)(5280 ft/mi)/(3600 sec/hr) = 132 ft/sec.

The frontal area of the sphere is: A = ?D2/4 = ?(3/12)2/4 = 0.04906 ft2.

The value of CD from the table above is 0.4

Finally, substitute values into the drag force equation: FD = CD(1/2)?V2A = (0.4)(1/2)(0.002423)(1322)(0.04906) = 0.414 lb


(.31) (0.5) (0.0002423 ) (86907.04) (19.2673)  =  62.887007658866248  lb


294.8
0.00036345
86907.04
1.79 m² = 19.2673 ft²
OR 19 ft² and 38.50 in²

http://carspector.com/car/mazda/040681

Whats the max power and speed of this car prior to modding ?

I have a big car book listing details of every uk car sold in 1989. It has the Rx-7 down as being 205bhp and max 145mph. A 'twin scroll' single turbo from hitachi apparently. Only cost 21k , bargain

Mx5 was 10k back then :eek:

Mazda RX-7 (86-96)
Going on parkers info and the 8x rule a rough calc of power needed would be 626bhp and obviously much more then that if you wanted more then a crawl leading upto the top speed

the max power is 255bhp and 158mph from factory it also has a drag co of 0.31 and a frontal area of 1.79metres if you want to use that.

though i have heard the UK ones were only 237bhp due to loads of different crap added onto them and they say 156mph with that speed

My car was 39k in the UK as it was made to compete with the lower spec 911, mad that now you can pick them up for less than 3k

ive calculated ill need roughly 635bhp to do it within 1.5miles and 518bhp if i had unlimited distance(or the distance that car manufacturers have)

Though im aiming for 700bhp so i can literally turn up, select high boost, choose my braking point and then do a run, hit 200mph, back off then make bacon sarnies for dinner

BigglesPiP · 5 Apr 2010 at 14:00

Not going for uber-wide tyres should help. High pressures too, may also make it feel more controlled at high speed.

Mirrors off maybe?

turbotoaster · 5 Apr 2010 at 15:59

the mirrors have been proven to give 2mph extra over a mile and taping up the front end gives 1mph so both of them will be done, also ill probably remove the rear spoiler as its proven to not produce any downforce at all and only drag.

ill just use 255 tyres on the back so not really wide, same as whats on it now, just a thicker tyre to up my gearing better go from 255/40/17 to 255/55/17

saitrix · 5 Apr 2010 at 17:27

BigglesPiP said:
Not going for uber-wide tyres should help. High pressures too, may also make it feel more controlled at high speed.

Mirrors off maybe?

I wouldn't worry with width of tyres so much. 95% of the drag at those speeds is aero. The rolling resistence is linear over all speeds whereas the aero increases greatly.

turbotoaster · 5 Apr 2010 at 20:02

im wondering if he is thinking about the aero of the actual tyres them themselves as technically they are 4 big blocks there get pushed through the air, making them thinner helps with aero, but the difference between say 205 and 255 doesnt make a big enough difference to compensate for the lack of traction, if this was on say the VW straight or bonnieville then i can see it causing some effect

probedb · 5 Apr 2010 at 21:05

silversurfer said:
Mazda RX-7 (86-96)
Going on parkers info and the 8x rule a rough calc of power needed would be 626bhp and obviously much more then that if you wanted more then a crawl leading upto the top speed

86-96? You know that covers two entirely different models for the RX7? I.e FC3S and FD3S.

turbotoaster · 7 Apr 2010 at 08:41

ok next part of my ebay part special build arrived today

The elbow that bolts onto my throttle body, as previously mentioned the reason im going for this is to maintain my pipework size so that there is no airflow restrictions which in theory will maximise the air entering the inlet manifold, i know the differences are minimal, but as a famous supermarket once said, every little helps!

Got it £79 delivered which was the cheapest around i could find it

looks like this is the company thats paying china for it

have to say, casting internally is pretty poor, so im gonna spend this afternoon with some sand paper and smooth it all out

heres what i mean about there being an internal step, this is the point at which im gonna cut it off, hence losing the narrow part

Checking its the same size as my intercooler...good to go!!

Not sure what to do next, either order my 2 fuel pumps or mod my intercooler so i can fit it with my rad, will have a think about when i next get paid

666_Pounder · 7 Apr 2010 at 14:50

Looks sweet, I'll probably hear you at some point as I live within earshot of Bruntingthorpe.

turbotoaster · 7 Apr 2010 at 18:55

well there will be a 5inch pipe coming off the turbo to just behind the front wheel, no baffles, no boxes, nothing, im expecting massive noise, well over 100db at idle