My 200mph budget build

[turbotoaster]

I have quite a lot of oil in my intake too,do rotaries blow much more out? Running it to a catch tank might be better then letting it act as extra lubrication, there'll be exhaust gas in there too.

Oooh, and if you want rich mixtures look at out Formula Student car at the moment, 8.9 AFR. Will need to plug the laptop in and get it to something like 12 before the test on Sunday, just a safe setting while we haven't got a rolling road.

well its 2 things, either the breather setup or the turbos, dont get any smoke out of the turbos at all so im assuming its the breather setup, ill get a catch tank when i have a spare few pennies and let you know.

8.9AFR!! how the hell are the plugs still firing with that much fuel going though it, should take it for a blast, once the exhaust is red hot ill bet you will get some nice flames.

Be interesting to see what the EGTs are like at full throttle.

Id imagine high 12s to low 13s are your best bet on the dyno, what engines in it?

 

[Simon]

, there'll be exhaust gas in there too.

Oooh, and if you want rich mixtures look at out Formula Student car at the moment, 8.9 AFR. Will need to plug the laptop in and get it to something like 12 before the test on Sunday, just a safe setting while we haven't got a rolling road.

Just run them stoich/slighty rich, they don't need to run that rich with the restrictor and you'll get Fuel economy bonus points in Endurance.

 

[BigglesPiP]

8.9AFR!! how the hell are the plugs still firing with that much fuel going though it, should take it for a blast, once the exhaust is red hot ill bet you will get some nice flames.

Be interesting to see what the EGTs are like at full throttle.

Id imagine high 12s to low 13s are your best bet on the dyno, what engines in it?

We've had flames just revving engine #2 in the frame on wheels. Interestingly it wont run like that on Denso plugs, but will on NGKs, says something I think...

It's a CBR600RR motor we're running, with a Honda Racing ECU.

Here's the intake:


Works quite well now we've fixed the leaks, revved to the limiter with the throttle all the way closed 1st time we tried.

Just run them stoich/slighty rich, they don't need to run that rich with the restrictor and you'll get Fuel economy bonus points in Endurance.

Yea, that's the aim for July, but we're supposed to be testing on Sunday and we've got no dyno, just looking to get something safe to run on.

I need to get the wiring loom finished, I'm the only electrical guy who stuck around.

 

[turbotoaster]

interesting setup, quite long trumpets for a bike engine so should be torquey but you may struggle for power at the top end.

how come your running an inlet plenum, also looks like theres a restrictor you all have to run, did you calculate the litre capacity of the plenum to include engine capacity and expected power?

 

[BigglesPiP]

interesting setup, quite long trumpets for a bike engine so should be torquey but you may struggle for power at the top end.

how come your running an inlet plenum, also looks like theres a restrictor you all have to run, did you calculate the litre capacity of the plenum to include engine capacity and expected power?

A final year project last year in the class 2 entry was to design the intake. The challenge is that there needs to be a 20mm restrictor after the throttle body. The long runners and big plenum apparently allow us to take in the most air possible given the challenge. The original throttle bodies are now injector housings, the secondary injectors from the DSFI are disabled (dummy resistors).

Jack and I are the only 2 left on the team who can really do the engine bits, so it fell on us to make the design leak-proof.

This is our 1st car. That frame is a clone of that part of the chassis.

 

[turbotoaster]

thats a clever idea actually, you should in theory have great fast throttle power(on/off fast) as with the inlet being so big a lot of air can be drawn into the engine without it needing to pull in massive vacuum. Obviously when you flat out in a 1 gear you will quickly reach the point when the need to pull in an excessive vacuum costs you power but knowing that you might make it past peak torque and having longer runners killing top power wont matter anyway as there wouldnt be enough air to supply it.

I like it!

If thats the frame for the chassis its gonna look rather odd, any pics of previous years cars built up to have an idea.


What are the tasks you have to perform with the vehicle?

 

[BigglesPiP]

There's some design judgings and cost reports and other paperwork. There's a drag race, up to 4 runs, no burnouts. There's a sprint race with cars spaces apart. There's the Handling test (figure 8). Then there's the Endurance test with a driver change.

You need 4 drivers to enter everything completely, or 3 drivers to completely enter almost everything.

They do tend to look quite odd:
http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=e...a+student&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g2&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Here's a render of our car, fortunately I'm staying in Liverpool in the CAD guy (Tom Byrne)'s living room.


And here's sort of what it looks like now, with a lot of the bits removed for access, test 1 will be without bodywork, or the crash structure.

 

[turbotoaster]

hmmm interesting, is there a minimum weight requirement, just thinking if you make it lighter you can always adjust weight around to suit different drivers.

Also tell your guys to go on a diet, its the easiest way to reduce weight and you will see that on the stop clock, you want people to have just enough strength to complete the task so theres a fair bit ill bet you can slim them down.

Also i see double wishbones all around, good choice, will hopefully help in the handling, if its a very tight and twisty track put more weight at the front, soften the front suspension up a bit and run some more camber, a good driver will be able to make use of the pointy front end and correct a little oversteer, and wheelspin wont be to bad in a restricted engine with that amount of rubber on the back.

If the circuit a series of high speed corners then take some front camber out and adjust the weight a little to the rear, this will give the car a higher stability....yes it wont be the perfect balance but we cant assume one of you will be able to find that fine limit and may end up being slower, so having a slight understeer means you will be able to keep your foot planted and actually increase your speed.

One thing your CAD guy has potentially missed out on is a diffuser, you have an upturned exhaust setup so its crying out for one, you could make it very large aswell as you shouldnt need to have much suspension travel on the rear end so that wont limit you.


Sorry to sound like im trying to tell you how to suck eggs but im just typing whats entering my mind

 

[BigglesPiP]

hmmm interesting, is there a minimum weight requirement, just thinking if you make it lighter you can always adjust weight around to suit different drivers.

No lower weight limit, our car is a tank, being our 1st we're after reliability and setting up the team. About 250Kg without driver, or twice as heavy as ze Germans and their multi million Audi sponsorship.

You can have any kind of boost you like with the same restrictor too, as long as you adapted the engine for boost yourself. Up to 610cc allowed, but a lot of people use a 400cc single cylinder for lightness.

Also tell your guys to go on a diet, its the easiest way to reduce weight and you will see that on the stop clock, you want people to have just enough strength to complete the task so theres a fair bit ill bet you can slim them down.

We've been trying, but we all went to Fat Shiraz for a cooked brekky this morning. We plan to use karting to decide the drivers, so lightness will be key to winning that. I need to pick up my game a bit, but I might get onto the list as a wildcard due to my mechanical sympathy.

Edit: I'm 10.5 stone by the way, but 6 foot on the nail makes it a close call to fit.

Also i see double wishbones all around, good choice, will hopefully help in the handling, if its a very tight and twisty track put more weight at the front, soften the front suspension up a bit and run some more camber, a good driver will be able to make use of the pointy front end and correct a little oversteer, and wheelspin wont be to bad in a restricted engine with that amount of rubber on the back.

There's plenty of power to drift them, about 80bhp. It would be nice if our design featured some caster, we've managed to get 2 degreess in by adjusting the top wishbones. The best designs have pull rods all round with low mounted springs.

If the circuit a series of high speed corners then take some front camber out and adjust the weight a little to the rear, this will give the car a higher stability....yes it wont be the perfect balance but we cant assume one of you will be able to find that fine limit and may end up being slower, so having a slight understeer means you will be able to keep your foot planted and actually increase your speed.

No such thing as high speed, avg laps will be 40mph for a fast car. Judges frown at wings.

One thing your CAD guy has potentially missed out on is a diffuser, you have an upturned exhaust setup so its crying out for one, you could make it very large aswell as you shouldnt need to have much suspension travel on the rear end so that wont limit you.

Again, not going to ever go that fast.

Sorry to sound like im trying to tell you how to suck eggs but im just typing whats entering my mind

We love to hear from anyone with input, and we'll give advice freely where we can. We're not into hiding the design behind a wall of mechanics.

 

[turbotoaster]

well from what you said........judges frown on wings, i wouldnt be bothered if judges poo there pants if they see a mini f1 car, if the rules allow anything, you push that to the limit, its what successfull motorsport is all about.

Like you say, your car is a tank at the moment, that means you can shift a lot of weight off it and then use that advantage to gain more downforce from aero parts

You say an average lap will be 40mph, that means ina straight line they will be doing that, drive down the road at 40mph and put your hand out the window, point it horizontal, then turn it vertical and you will see what i mean.

Since the driver will be roughly 1/4 of the total weight then karting is a good way to find out whos best, its not always the best driver who wins as the weight difference from a lighter driver might make up more time down the straights from faster accelaration and later breaking than someone who is a better driver and can carry more speed through the corners but is heavier.

Does it state in the rules about turbochargers.......i assume you know the regulations better than the back of your hand.........look at adrian newey, he pushed every boundary he could find, id be doing the same.


Give me a sec, ill have a quick blast on paint and draw some ideas

 

[BigglesPiP]

They really are too slow for wings, it's The last few corners of Silversone with cones set out. Cornering speeds are all low, tight turns and short straights. Closer to an auto test.

You can have a turbo, but you have to develop the application yourself, we'd love to have done it this year, but we don't have the man hours or the cash.

We can't use any of the major components we've made next year, it being a design competition. Next years chassis will be mega light, scrapping the diff (the diff/sprocket/brake assembly is >10Kg), making it fit the driver batter, lighter steel space frame, engine to the side of the driver maybe. I'm a bit disappointed I won't be there to do it, I graduate this year.

Edit: A few of us have been admiring the Warner R4, we seriously want to make a few of something similar for ourselves.

 

[turbotoaster]

damm, there was me on paint drawing all these ideas out, i would have been great if i was there next year.

the turbo setup is very easy, we could your the carberature off a r5 turbo as thats designed to run with low 20mm restrictions, also its an easy and cheap way to control fueling under boost, running a t25 off say a 200sx we would have around 150bhp+ to play with.

With that you can get up to speeds where wings help......you say autocross, this is the autocross state champion in america

http://www.tweakit.com/rx7/rx7trscca1.jpg

he hits 60mph at the end of the short straights, never gets out of second gear.

He gets massive downforce even at 30-40mph around corners, apply that downforce to the back and front of your car and you will be able to carry that much speed in the corners that it wont matter as much that your car is a fat ass.

say 350kg incl driver with 160bhp and that sort of downforce, you would be unstoppable!!

Make both wings adjustable so you flatten them out on the drag racing, turn them up to full on the handling and racing.

theres so much potential there, even for this year......your graduating dammit, wouldnt you like to compete and spank there arses as this is your only chance

 

[BigglesPiP]

Hmm, wings that actually serve a purpose would be a 1st in the UK competition, another thing is that there's nothing preventing movable aerodynamic surfaces... I think, I'd have to sit in the throne of knowledge and read the rules again to be sure.

Either way, there won't be wings this year, 5 or 6 weeks to go and the race engine is yet to be run post sump modifications, and it hasn't technically been a rolling chassis yet. It could have been last week, but putting it on the ground would be a waste of time when there is more to build.

 

[turbotoaster]

such a shame really, still least it must be a fun project, maybe give some advise and ideas to the people who come after you, give them a bit of a leg up etc

Anyway spoke about widebands earlier and ive decided to order one, spent a lot of time researching and found a controlled condition test done at a dyno with 8 of the top widebands being used and innovative motorsport came out top of all of them so im going to go with one of them.

Will do install pics etc like normal when it gets here

 

[turbotoaster]

Little update, wideband arrived in the post today.

Got it from a company named txautoplex on ebay from as you guessed it, Texas.

Ill have to admit, im always very unsure about buying from abroad, would be very easy for the company to rip you off as you cant go visit them.

But true to the guys word it was shipped out as soon as i paid and gave a tracking number so i could keep an eye on it.

He included free shipping so it only cost me £145 brand new in total and also put on the shipping docs a really low value so i didnt have to pay taxes....didnt ask him to do that so awesome!!

Id recommend buying from him as hes £30 cheaper than anyone else and gives great customer service

some random pics, ill do a full installation next week when i get warren to help me with wiring!

Gauge, was expecting it to have more depth than that which is a bonus

Bosch Lambda sensor

once i get it in ill start doing some proper tuning as my engine could really do with sorting out

 

[ajstan]

There's some design judgings and cost reports and other paperwork. There's a drag race, up to 4 runs, no burnouts. There's a sprint race with cars spaces apart. There's the Handling test (figure 8). Then there's the Endurance test with a driver change.

You need 4 drivers to enter everything completely, or 3 drivers to completely enter almost everything.

They do tend to look quite odd:
http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=e...a+student&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g2&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Here's a render of our car, fortunately I'm staying in Liverpool in the CAD guy (Tom Byrne)'s living room.


And here's sort of what it looks like now, with a lot of the bits removed for access, test 1 will be without bodywork, or the crash structure.

Woah, is that a uni project or something?

I'd love to do something like that!

 

[Perywinkle]

Do I spy cxr's?

 

[Westyfield2]

Woah, is that a uni project or something?

I'd love to do something like that!

Formula Student he said IIRC.

Do I spy cxr's?

Aye, looks like Compo CXRs to me!

 

[BigglesPiP]

Yep, Compomotive CXRs, and the front left one went whizzing past me on the test on Sunday, I wouldn't mind but it took the brakes with it.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Well, I started reading from the first page and found this. No.

The coefficient of drag is dimensionless.
Drag = Coefficient of drag * Area * dynamic pressure

Sorry, your going to have to run this buy me?

You've done such a bad job of quoting that your post contains very little context.