My first football assignment tomorrow, slight collywobbles! Advice appreciated.

footman

footman

footman

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OK, more than slight collywobbles!
My son and I support a West London football league team, both ST holders. A few days ago he sent me an email saying they were looking for a photographer for the youth team matches and that I should apply.
I didn't realise he was joking, the devil!

Anyway, I had a look and seems they were looking for a young intern, in other words someone to do a freebie. I gave them a call and it seems they've been looking for ages, no-one suitable has come forward.

Even at my advanced age they seemed keen for me to step into the breach but I stressed that I would happily step aside for a young person. Also it seems I would get a share of sales of my shots.

First youth match is tomorrow, it's a local derby and if it was a 1st team game would be the ultimate needle match, I wouldn't be surprised if the juniors don't see it that way as well :eek:.

I've never shot sports before but doing wildlife and birds I'm set up for action, the thought is still daunting though.

Any advice/tips from football photographers would be most welcome:)

I've also posted this in a photography forum, I could use any help I can get!
 
Out of interest, what equipment do you have ? If it was me, I'd be bringing two cameras - one fitted with a fast telephoto ( 400mm most likely ) and another with a midrange zoom eg.24-70mm. I'd also take my monopod.

You need to figure out how close to the action you'll be. Large pitch , small pitch ? Sidelines or behind goalmouth ?

Obviously you'll be wanting to shoot at very fast shutter speeds to freeze the action. If your camera has good high ISO capability then it will be possible for you to use Aperture mode to control the depth of field whilst setting a minimum shutter speed eg. 1/640. Personally I'd be aiming for at least 1/1000 if the light allows for it.
 
Thanks for the reply.
My main body will be a Canon 1D Mark IV and I'll use a 300mm F4L IS on it.
The second body will be a 40D with a 70-200 F4L IS, this will be for stuff inside the 18 yard box.
The settings I had intended were both lenses wide open with probably ISO 800 for the 1D and maybe ISO 640 for the 40D, AI servo with high speed continuous shutter.
The light looks to be quite good tomorrow but I may have to up the ISO.
How does that sound?
 
While I'm not going to give any advice on the actually shooting, I'd just say to be wary over the business side of things.

They want you to shoot for free and turn over your images to them, so that they can use them how they see fit or send to publications. They have said you might get a share of any sales, but then you have to look at that realistically...

Using it on their own website and marketing materials... no payment.

Local Newspaper/Magazine... they may give them to them for free for the publicity, even if not, splitting that figure its not going to be much money.

How do you also track that they are looking after your interests in terms of giving you a share for when it does get paid for published?

I'm sure its something you really want to try and you likely have the afternoon free, but it stinks of them being too cheap to hire a Photographer and then thinking they can do whatever they like afterwards.
 
Nexus said:
While I'm not going to give any advice on the actually shooting, I'd just say to be wary over the business side of things.

They want you to shoot for free and turn over your images to them, so that they can use them how they see fit or send to publications. They have said you might get a share of any sales, but then you have to look at that realistically...

Using it on their own website and marketing materials... no payment.

Local Newspaper/Magazine... they may give them to them for free for the publicity, even if not, splitting that figure its not going to be much money.

How do you also track that they are looking after your interests in terms of giving you a share for when it does get paid for published?

I'm sure its something you really want to try and you likely have the afternoon free, but it stinks of them being too cheap to hire a Photographer and then thinking they can do whatever they like afterwards.
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I take on board your comments about them getting this for free and I'm aware of pros understandable attitudes to this type of thing.
I don't expect any revenue from sales and this certainly isn't my reason for doing this as it's "only" the youth team.
They don't seem to feature many shots from youth team matches on the club website, just the one usually.

If this were first team stuff then my attitude would be quite difference, I'm only doing this to help them out. Do you think then that this is cynical on their part?
 
I imagine the financial side of things would be minimal at best, and the OP isn't interested in actually making any money out of it. Can't exactly imagine a local paper printing a photo from a youth game would fetch much money at all!
 
footman said:
Thanks for the reply.
My main body will be a Canon 1D Mark IV and I'll use a 300mm F4L IS on it.
The second body will be a 40D with a 70-200 F4L IS, this will be for stuff inside the 18 yard box.
The settings I had intended were both lenses wide open with probably ISO 800 for the 1D and maybe ISO 640 for the 40D, AI servo with high speed continuous shutter.
The light looks to be quite good tomorrow but I may have to up the ISO.
How does that sound?
Click to expand...

Sounds pretty good to me. Don't be afraid to bump the ISO up to 1600 on the 1D Mark IV if you need it. Main priority is to keep the shutter speed above 1/1000th if you can ( down to 1/640th if your technique is good ). Also, be careful with DOF ... on the long telephoto if you shoot wide open, whilst that may give good subject isolation, there is a danger you may get out of focus images. It's tempting to shoot sports in Shutter mode, but you really want Aperture mode so you can dial in a slightly higher f-stop if needed ( eg. 4.0 ) and allow the camera to do the heavy lifting for changing ISO on the fly.

ps. Just realised you will be using f4.0 lenses anyway ... that should be sufficient for DOF. A lot of guys shoot sports with f2.8 lenses , and sometimes feel the need to bump it up to f4.0.
 
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xaldub said:
Sounds pretty good to me. Don't be afraid to bump the ISO up to 1600 on the 1D Mark IV if you need it. Main priority is to keep the shutter speed above 1/1000th if you can ( down to 1/640th if your technique is good ). Also, be careful with DOF ... on the long telephoto if you shoot wide open, whilst that may give good subject isolation, there is a danger you may get out of focus images. It's tempting to shoot sports in Shutter mode, but you really want Aperture mode so you can dial in a slightly higher f-stop if needed ( eg. 4.0 ) and allow the camera to do the heavy lifting for changing ISO on the fly.

ps. Just realised you will be using f4.0 lenses anyway ... that should be sufficient for DOF. A lot of guys shoot sports with f2.8 lenses , and sometimes feel the need to bump it up to f4.0.
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Thanks, I wish I had f2.8 lenses!
 
Derek on here gave me loads of advice privately by email he may come along later and give you some tips :)

I shoot it for fun and experience of AI servo. Most of my pictures are slow moving so this gave me opportunities to learn new skills. I shoot my nephews under 14's and it's been fun.

I always shoot AV 2.8 and usually don't have to go over ISO 200 to keep my shutter speed up. (50D). I have to pretty much always use the center point for good focus though :(

As I stand 3m from the sideline I only need 200mm max anyway and have a 1.4 TC if needed. Sometimes I get so into the game I forget to take pictures or don't take enough care. That's a big failure if you are doing it for anything other than fun :D

Make sure to turn your IS off as well, it caused me sharpness issues until I turned it off, doh!
 
dannyjo22 said:
Derek on here gave me loads of advice privately by email he may come along later and give you some tips :)

I shoot it for fun and experience of AI servo. Most of my pictures are slow moving so this gave me opportunities to learn new skills. I shoot my nephews under 14's and it's been fun.

I always shoot AV 2.8 and usually don't have to go over ISO 200 to keep my shutter speed up. (50D). I have to pretty much always use the center point for good focus though :(

As I stand 3m from the sideline I only need 200mm max anyway and have a 1.4 TC if needed. Sometimes I get so into the game I forget to take pictures or don't take enough care. That's a big failure if you are doing it for anything other than fun :D

Make sure to turn your IS off as well, it caused me sharpness issues until I turned it off, doh!
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Thanks for the reply and advice.
I'm hoping Derek might turn up, if not I'll mail him. I'm not quite clear why you turn off IS, could you explain please.
 
For me even using IS 2 mode on the 70-200 unless you pan dead horizontal the IS is trying to correct shake that isn't there. For my technique I found I got sharper shots with it off. Not only that you are shooting around 1/1000 so shouldn't need it plus you are using the battery for little reason :)

The best thing to do is shoot 50 with it off and 50 on and see what you think :)
 
dannyjo22 said:
For me even using IS 2 mode on the 70-200 unless you pan dead horizontal the IS is trying to correct shake that isn't there. For my technique I found I got sharper shots with it off. Not only that you are shooting around 1/1000 so shouldn't need it plus you are using the battery for little reason :)

The best thing to do is shoot 50 with it off and 50 on and see what you think :)
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Cheers, interesting. Must confess I hadn't thought about the IS aspect at all!
 
Hello :p

I'll give a proper answer after I've finished work tonight. But if you click on the link below my sig you'll get my photos on the club website, there is an option to expand on the EXIF data (beside summery click details) which will show more of the settings that i use per match. They're just the ones that I use, but there are other methods including using manual! :eek:
 
Derek W said:
Hello :p

I'll give a proper answer after I've finished work tonight. But if you click on the link below my sig you'll get my photos on the club website, there is an option to expand on the EXIF data (beside summery click details) which will show more of the settings that i use per match. They're just the ones that I use, but there are other methods including using manual! :eek:
Click to expand...

Thanks Derek.
Interestingly someone on another photography forum has suggested I put the 300 on the 40D and reserve goal mouth action for the 1D with the 70-200 as I will need to be snappier with AF there.
 
Right where to begin!

Personally I use a 5Dmk2 with a 70 - 200 f2.8 with 1.4x extender so get 280 mm at f4 (this comes off in the next month or so when the light gets poor. You have to bear in mind though I'm covering lower division scottish football so floodlights aren't the best.

Typically I set the camera up for Aperture priority (set at f2.8 or f4), ISO set as low as possible to retain a shutter speed of around 1/1000th of a second (1/320th is the absolute slowest speed as motion blur will occur) I use AI servo and focus with the thumb focus button and obviously use burst shooting (4fps woohoo! :p)
I also shoot in raw as I dont have any 'looming deadlines' like the pros do but jpg works just as well.

The things to look out for are mainly the goalmouth / goal action, celebrations, and important incidents (red cards, tough challenges) If you dont get one, get the other!

As Danny mentioned the IS isn't necessary as you'll be following the action and probably shooting at the same time so for the brief time the shutter will be closed the shutter speed will be quick enough to freeze the action without any assistance. Although saying that I still have my IS on when shooting and haven't had any loss of sharpness.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I've been told by a couple of pros that they typically shoot in jpg as the papers dont require any PP and the quality is fine for printing. Some shoot in Aperture priority, some in Shutter priority, but one even told me he shoots in manual as typically the light doesn't change that much over the span of a match (it will soon when winter sets in but then there are floodlights!) so they preset everything so that they can still achieve the high shutter speeds.

Camera + Bodywise I'd probably opt for the combo above (assuming that you're sitting at the end of the pitch rather than at the sidelines) Your crop + 300 will get you most of the pitch covered while your FF + 70 - 200 can cover the 18yrd box no problem. The way you had thought first would assume that you'd be sitting at the sidelines and both combinations would really cover the same distances, almost rendering one useless (albiet being able to zoom out)

I'm sure more will come to me but I've got to head out to play 5s :D
 
A couple of other minor points, as mentioned using a monopod is ideal for football as you'll be panning your camera a lot. Also when taking photos pitchside, most folk have either a stool or a flightcase to sit on so that they are as low down as possible. Some grounds will require a hi vis vest to be worn / or supplied depending on the club so that you can be identified as allowed to be there! Think thats everything. The main thing is though is to have fun while you're doing it, you can even do what i do and enjoy a few pints in the pub with the rest of the fans before turning up :D Ever the professional ha ha!
 
Derek W said:
The things to look out for are mainly the goalmouth / goal action, celebrations, and important incidents (red cards, tough challenges) If you dont get one, get the other!
Click to expand...

I got one in my nephews cup final, it was a tight game and the CM and captain scored what would be the winner at the death. I was enjoying the game so much, I just lifted the camera and fired off 5 of 6 shots as he celebrated. 3 or 4 frames I am really happy with, especially if you were at the game and felt the tension. :)

As for the guy shooting manual, I don't know how, even panning across the action I can see massive variation in shutter speed in a matter of 60 seconds. I took some 2 or 3 weeks ago and following the action went from 1/1000 to 1/4000!
 
Derek W said:
A couple of other minor points, as mentioned using a monopod is ideal for football as you'll be panning your camera a lot. Also when taking photos pitchside, most folk have either a stool or a flightcase to sit on so that they are as low down as possible. Some grounds will require a hi vis vest to be worn / or supplied depending on the club so that you can be identified as allowed to be there! Think thats everything. The main thing is though is to have fun while you're doing it, you can even do what i do and enjoy a few pints in the pub with the rest of the fans before turning up :D Ever the professional ha ha!
Click to expand...


I tried it this morning with a monopod but got into a right pickle when trying to swap bodies, actually fell off the stool:D
The 300 is very light so I'll try handholding but ill take the monopod along.


There'll be no pints though, it's a youth match kicking off at 11 o'clock, more like diet cokes and mars bars!
I've got to watch the first team at 3 so I hope the timing works out OK.
 
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