My time to get fit - stage 1 - The beginning.

[RimBlock]

Ok, so that time has come.

I have always been pretty slim but then the late 20's came and went and office days along with bad diet and no real exercise has taken it's toll.

2.5 years after leaving the UK, I went back with the family to introduce the new baby to my parents and have a 3 week holiday with family and friends.

Just about everyones first statement was "Wow, you've put on weight".

My wedding photos show a much slimmer me (from 3 years ago) and I was not at my usual slimness then. I have gone from 34" waist to 38"-40" depending on the cut of the trousers.

Check upwards and not much has changed, my arms are the same as ever as is my neck. My face has a little bit more weight but not significant and I still have a chin .

I also gave up smoking tobacco after an acute attack of bronchitis last November and have not gone back.

So current level of fitness is in the negative figures.
Height 6' 1"
Weight 107Kg (approx 235lbs)
Don't drink, dont smoke now.

Very low energy levels (2 flights of stairs and am panting). Breathing is difficult sometimes and now have an inhalar from the doctor although the peak flow test gave a 80% score where average fit is 100%. I very rarely use the inhaler.

Have had a hernia repaired a number of years ago from jumping in to weight training to fast. Bottom two discs in my spine are about half the thickness to the rest so have to be careful lifting. Right knee pain believed to be from a damaged ligament on the side of the knee. Pulling my heal into my butt is fine but trying to straighten it again is pretty painfull like bad muscle strain. Same issue with kneeling down and trying to get up again. The knee problem is getting better though.

Whenever I have gone to the gym before and had personal trainers I had expressed a desire to improve my diet (one trainer described my diet of the time as the worst they had ever heard of) I have never got any satisfactory results.

I am cutting down on fast food. My kids and wife regularly go to the various places and I had fallen in to the habit since moving to Singapore. I am trying very hard not to go there at all but it is difficult when the entire family is going apart from you. I have cut it out at lunch times.

I have tried to get breakfast in (oats) which is something I have never really done for the whole of my 35 years.

I have now hit the stage where I would rather not go swimming as I now look like one of those fat, rich expats that are usually pretty arrogant and disliked by the locals.

Clothed I can get away with it but with a t-shirt etc I am now quite embarassed.

Ok so enough about the negative.........

I am going to buy a bike tonight (hopefully if I can find the shop). I have a gym membership and will be going around 4 times during the mon->fri as it is near work and a number of friends here also go.

I am trying to cut down on portions food wise and am now trying to get some fruit for snacks (mango, honeydew and pinapple). I am eating at sandwich bars or Subway but without the cookies (3 cookies are 660 KCal ).

What I need help with is diet and a routine to start off with.
A good site to get calorie figures for different foods would be great especially if it also has chinese food (not westernised chinese). Has anyone got any good links ?

The fitness plan for someone just starting out and in a very unhealthy state. Fist time in the gym running for 20 (10 min fast walk and jog then 5 min fast then 5 min jog) minutes had me feeling dizzy and faint which I believe is more due to lung capacity problems from the bronchitus and having recently given up smoking. I went up to 40 minutes on the cycle which was tiring but not too difficult over a couple of weeks but then became sick and travelled to London so I am back at the start again.

I tend to push myself quite hard so I need to know what sort of thing is reasonible for a completely unfit person to start with for the first couple of months to build up the fitness levels to a point where I could then start with the Hiit and some weights.

Oh and as much as I applaud the guys here who have become well muscled and quite 'big', I would rather have a climbers / Jason Lee (The Crow) type figure. Bit more bulk, better definition. I know you all hate the 'T' word so how about 'vacuume packed' .

Thanks for any help / advice.

RB

 

[RimBlock]

Hi Morba,

Thanks for the reply although I was under the impression that leaness and endurance without too much size gain is usually brought about by sustained lifting with medium weights rather than bursts of lifting with very heavy weights.

I also should have said that I would like to get back in to climbing and not just look like a climber. I need to get a reasonible level of fitness before starting that though.

Of the people I knew who did climbing regularly, I knew of none who did any heavy gym lifting as whilst they need strength they also need endurance and the rest is usually technique.

Oh and it is Brandon Lee not Jason (Scott) Lee I meant. Jason played Bruce Lee and Brandon played The Crow. Jason is to my memory a bit bigger than Brandon was. My mistake, too many Lee's around .

Cheers
RB

 

[RimBlock]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

Think of it a different way mate. Say I wanted to be able sprint twice as fast as I do now. I wouldn't train to sprint slowly, I'd train to sprint like Usain Bolt so that I'd reach my goal as efficiently as possible.

Understood but to use this analogy, say I wanted to sprint twice as far rather than twice as fast. Would I still train for a 'bigger burst' by using heavier weights or train in being able to exercise with those weights for a longer time ?

Good luck with your fitness training.

you need to get over the self conciousness of swimming as it will do you the world of good, do what we did, join a (semi) expensive gym, were the pool is not full of kids messing around, and do the gym stuff, then 1.2 hour in the pool works wonders for you.

I found that swimming has not done a lot for me in the past for weight loss. Maybe it was a diet problem. I used to swim competitively in my mid teens and was slim. Since gaining weight with office work I have tried a number of times swimming at lunch time at a local gym but the weight didn't seem to come off. As I said, maybe it was a diet issue. The gyms here rarely have a swimming pool as there are so many community pools here which are dirt cheap to use and open air as it is tropical climate here. They get packed as you can imagine and so it is hard to swim lengths (also owing to the fact that one length and I am out of breath).

I don't mind doing the bike at the gym. I was advised to stay away from the treadmill due to my knee for the time being. Maybe I will try again as it seems to be getting better. Once I have a little less weight (i.e. tummy) I will probably try and go swimming with my 10 y/o who is taking lessons and enjoying it.

there is a misconception that size = strength. Climbers are exceptionally strong while staying relatively light.
There aren't many powerlifters here and the bigger people will have mostly grown from intensive weights routines in rep ranges over 5.
You can train as hard as you like, what will make you grow is food, eat enough and you grow, eat less you lose weight. So, you can hit the gym hard and control your growth in your diet

Thanks Morba,

So the suggestion would be high (say max - 5KG) weights for > 5 reps for strength or <5 for growth but with a linked diet.

This would work better than med (say max - 10kg) weights for 20 reps (3 sets).

The formula I read many years ago was find max reps you are able to do for a set weight, divide that number by two and then do 3 sets. Slowly reduce the reps and increase the weight until you just about fail at the 3rd set of 10 then work at it until you can do it then increase the weight and continue from there. This came from a book probably written in the 70's though (many big bushy moustaches and 118 type guys in the photos) so techniques have probably improved.

(forgive me if my replies seem a little short, i'm posting from my mob)

Np, you first one was a little blunt but then with a jetlagged 17month old, tiredness is also a close friend at the moment so I am probably a little fast to react.

Yep. I'd take any of you lifters on up a rock face. Back in university whilst climbing regularly I could do chin ups with my index fingers. Would take a long time for me to be able to do that again.

It was great the first time I was able to cross a small bit of the ceiling at The Castle Climbing centre. I also remember seeing some guys at the Mileend Climbing wall just bouncing all over the ceiling like spider monkeys. They made it look so easy. My finger strength was never that great and so it was my fingers giving out more than anything that kept stopping me. It was also a great confidence booster. Getting up most of a 8 metre wall free climbing and then getting stuck, saying to myself that I had to push on or I am going to be stuck until my arms gave out and then making it over the top. On another occasion I was loosing the last reserves of strength in my grip near the top of a wall and feeling my fingers just letting go, pushing off from the wall and just dropping to the double layer of crash mats was also quite a weird feeling. Damn I miss climbing and I still have the gear (not that it would fit me now) with me here.

Rowing is somewhere you want to start if you are not keen on getting in the pool. I reached my target weight in a few weeks doing 2 to 3 half hour rowing sessions. My PB is now 7km in 30m which is a fair pace I think.

Thanks Lucero, rowing may be an option as the one machine in the gym is usually free although bending right forward may be difficult to start with my tummy and will have to be careful of my back.

I'm in a similar position to you - well, I was. 6 foot 2, 120 kgs, broad build and obviously overweight - to everyone but me! I just thought I was maybe getting a bit chunky.

It really was not until I got the feedback from London and saw the photos that I realised as I also had the 'I am still reasonably slim with a bit of a belly' mentality until then.

I went down the local gym and got given a routine by the instructor - 30 minutes of cardio, followed by a simple routine on the machines, 2 sets of 15 on each (heavy enough to feel it burning). So, I started going three times a week - and maintaining the same diet, sort of.

When I joined a gym I got a free 'PT session' which was a quick run through of weight, BMI, height etc and the guy kept asking me what I wanted my ideal weight to be. I just kept repeating that weight is not so important but I want to loose some inches around my stomach and get fitter. He found it hard to get that. He also showed me some compound exercises which my physio (for my knee) told me I should not be doing whilst trying to get my knee back in to shape. He then tried the hard sell for a PT package at a few thousand dollars and was not pleased when I declined. This is one reason for asking for advice here on a routine, especially a starting routine as I can build on that myself from previous info here.

In the first four weeks, I lost a ridiculously small amount of weight - barely 2 pounds. But I looked and felt so much better.

I had the same for the first two or three weeks with improvement in cycling distance, not being anywhere near as out of breath etc but then became unwell for a week and then 3 weeks in London has blown that all away.

It's now been ten weeks and I've lost 20 pounds (although this includes a rather alarming 5 pounds in the last week - I use the same machine every time - hopefully tomorrow will be a little more appropriate). My double chin has all but disappeared and my belly is half gone - I appear to have sprouted muscles on my shoulders and arms which I thought had disappeared about 10 years ago

Congrats and it certainly adds to my motivation.

So, my advice to you is to not look at weight as the only indicator as to how you're doing. Follow other people's advice and check yourself out in the mirror now and then - just remember that looking better in the mirror is just one part of what you're working towards.

Yes, size is my main concern. inches around the waist. The photo idea is one that has been mentioned here a few times and I think it is a very good one. Now I have to get my wife to take the pics of the worst of me without her laughing and me getting upset at her.

... and fat does not turn into muscle.

I like to think these are miss types and what Lucero probably means is that you will swap fat for muscle.

You may want to try other cardio equipment such as rowing machine/cross trainer etc and combine it with some weight training.

Thanks, this sounds very reasonable. Biggest problem I have with the bike is my butt going numb after 20 minutes. Moving to a cross trainer may be a very good move.

An example routine could be:
10 mins rowing machine
15 mins cross trainer
10 mins stepping machine
5 mins treadmill (could not bother as well if you dont like it)

Maybe I will use the bike as a warm-up in place of the rowing machine and swap the stepper for the rowing machine as there are no steppers in my gym to my knowledge.

Followed by 3 sets of 8 for:
Machine bench press / freeweight bench press
Lat pulldowns
Leg press
Shoulder press
(back exercise)
Cable pushdowns

The leg press I will give a miss to at the moment due to the knee, the rest are fine although I note in Gordy's sticky people seem to advise on keeping upper and lower body and cardio mainly on different days rather than all on one day.

Now the main question I had for this was how should I start off. I do nothing and then suddenly hit the gym for 30mins cardio and a weights workout then the next day I am going to be like the tin man..... no arm or leg bending possible for the next 3-4 days (happened last time and just about every time I start off exercising). I would like to avoid this very uncomfortable time so what do people recommend I can do for the first 2-4 weeks weights wise (cardio rarely gives me muscle pain as my lungs give out first at this fitness, or lack of, level) to get my body used to exercising without hitting it with 'Shock and Awe'........

Once again, thats to everyone for taking the time to read and reply.

Regards
RB

 

[RimBlock]

Hey RB

I am/was in a very similar situation to you. I have just gone 37, have recently stopped smoking, live in Malaysia for past 5 years, have a 2 YO son now and have been trying to lose the gut since January and generally trying to get fitter

.

It is great to know I am not the only one at my time in life trying to improve from almost nothing. Very encouraging, thanks.

I am only 5'9" and around 80kg (175lbs) and have actually maintained that weight exactly for six months but lost nearly 4 inches off my gut. My 34" trousers used to not fit, they now hang off me.

Great result and one I think I will be aiming for for the short(er) term. I bought a Boss suit before moving to Singapore. I wore the trousers twice from this GBP500 suit and they have not fitted me for two years.

It will be hard to recommend an exact program for you as a) I am far from qualified and b) do not know the full extent of your injuries and also what equipment you have available. However, what I will say is that - get your diet in check and do as much cardio and heavy weights as you can fit into a week, every week.

For A and B, sure, understandable and I am just after direction to build on at this point. 5 times a week (Mon - Fri) are possible with maybe a bit of riding at the weekends.

At our age, putting on muscle is never easy. Don't worry about suddenly waking up like Arnie - it will never happen. However, an increase in strength and muscle mass will help fitness and weight loss generally.

My wife will be pleased. She really dislikes the muscular look. It seems to be a very asian thing with the slim slightly effeminate guys being seen as more sensitive and caring. Luckily my wife was getting older and so was not so picky . Yes, a couple of pics of her are in the 'Show us your girlfriend thread'.

I think the most important thing is diet, diet, diet and for an ex-pat in Singapore it is easy to hit the hawker centers. Food is such a big thing in SEAsia; particularly if your line of work has many lunch/dinner functions as the Singaporeans are great hosts when it comes to eating and drinking.

I really am not in to the hawker centers. My wife would eat there all the time if she could but most of the things there I find hard to recognise, they are often made on a very tight budget, have minimal meat (you'd be lucky to get half a slice of beef or pork in most dishes). The western food is all deep fat fried. A lot of the dishes are also cooked in butter with thick sticky sauces and unknown quantities of MSG. Chicken is also usually cooked with the skin on although both the rosted and steamed chicken is usually very nice and I don't eat the skin if possible.

Just try to eat small, often and healthy. It is too easy to grab a bowl of noodles for lunch that are almost 100% carbs. It is better to find a mixed rice place (nasi campur) where you can get a buffet style and I basically eat half the rice and twice the vege as I would normally put on my plate and normal amounts of meat.

Ok so I should try the mixed rice or two/ three dish type stalls. I will give that a try and see how it goes. Thanks.

If you can swap all white stuff (bread, rice, pasta) for brown/wholemeal that’s great too. I also now drink green tea and not the Nescafe 3in1 coffee things that are full of sugar. Try not to drink calories as they soon build up and most Asian drinks are so sickly sweet it is untrue. I really only have green tea or water now.

I do tend to drink the 3-in-1 maybe twice a day as I enjoy coffee very much. I am drinking milk tea more at work now and with only one sugar in a big starbucks size mug. I am also eating oats with milk and again one sugar for breakfast.

I need to find a way of getting more small meals sorted out. I can get the oats for breakfast but then it is waiting for lunch and I can get a sandwich or salad and some fruit (as a later snack) then dinner. I need to find a way to get the mid morning snack sorted and my breakfast at work tends to drag a bit too long.

... (no more family blow outs)

Yes this can be a problem and the blowouts are usually at the fast food places as my wife never gains any weight, my older kid loves it and it is very convenient. I have to show them 'Supersize me' which I have seen but they haven't.

Then do the gym every evening for 5 or 6 days a week; alternate cardio days (whatever you like and can do) and weights days (probably full body routine with as many different compound lifts as poss and can cope with). Important is to keep pushing yourself. Keep setting and breaking goals both in cardio and weights. Not only is it fun but it keeps you motivated and is better/faster results than doing the same old routine time after time.

Cool, so M/W/F for weights and T/T for cardio and a bike ride at the weekend. I recently found there is an international standard mountain bike trail abount 15 minutes away from me hence getting the bike.

edit/ ooh 500 posts, not bad in 5 years

Ha, look at my start date and post count. It is not about volume it is about quality . Now if it was a word count then I would be much higher
than some of the people here with large post counts .

RB

 

[RimBlock]

And we are off.....

So two days in and a few questions.

1. I would guess I was on around 3000Kcal a day or more and watching the diet.
first day approx = 2061Kcal (carb=319g, Fat=53g, Protein=94g)
Second day approx = 1671Kcal (carb=182g, fat=64.74g, Protein=100.48g)

So yesterday I dropped my Kcal intake by almost 50% over two days and whilst I may not keep at that level it occurred that I don't really know what level I should be aiming for with what ration of carb/fat/protein. More importantly what levels are 'too much'.

I am still aiming for building lean muscle without gaining too much in size and slimming down the body fat at this stage. I may consider building a bit more after the fat levels are more reasonable. What I do not want to do is to cut the Kcal down so much that it hinders building lean muscle.

Any advice on what sort of levels and rations I should be aiming at.

2. Anyone know what the average 'dry' weight (ie no extra weights) is for a Smith machine.

3. Following The Craig's plan I notice there are no exercises specifically for bicep, abs, calves etc. Are the compound exercises given adequate for also exercising those areas as well or should something be added.

4. Last for now. During the muscle ache / rebuild period is it better to stay away from the gym and let it heal or to keep the training up ?

Many thanks for the previous advice and any enlightenment for the above questions.

RB

 

[RimBlock]

Hi Smit,

Thanks for the reply.

2. I am going to guess that it depends entirely on the manufacturer. Do you know who they are? If you check their website then it's possible that it tells you there. If not then most of the machines that I have seen, actually tell you on it somewhere what the starting weight is.

I was of the understanding that an olympic bar was 25Kg (although I could be completely wrong here) but this bar felt much lighter. While I was in the gym I didn't notice a starting weight on this machine (there was on others) and as someone was constantly using it I didn't want to linger staring to try and find it and put them off their session. I will check when next in the gym.

3. I haven't seen the plan but compound exercises should be sufficient to start off with. The biceps should be worked out quite hard while doing any back workouts but you could always through in a few isolation exercises at the end of your workouts I guess.

Cool, I will stick with that for now then unless anyone has any other opinions.

4. I think there are conflicting opinions on this one. I think if you are going to work on a different body part then you could get away with still training and of course depends on how much pain you are in. I work out even if still a bit sore but since I have a 4 day split then I am always healed and rested by the next week so it's not a problem.

The soreness and stiffness is very mild compared to what I have had before but it is still sore. Have taken the Whey proteen after the workout which I think probabaly helped quite a lot.

I am doing a Weights / Cardio alternation for 6 days so yesterday was weights and today is cardio. My legs are aching from the previous cardio and the incline leg presses from yesterday but I will give it a go and push through. Only one more day and then maybe a bike ride on Saturday before a rest day.

Cheers
RB

 

[RimBlock]

I was 107kg only 1 year ago, I am now at 88.5kg, and still losing.
........
EDIT Oh and final tip: Dont worry to much about %fat%carb%etc - just do a simple calorie count, and eat a well rounded diet - if you do this you will find it easier to stick to. It did for me.

Thanks Izi,

Well done on the weight loss. I will be there one day. I have the added motivation that a friend is paying for a personal trainer and by the sounds of it he is in boot camp wen on training sessions. I would very much like to beat him on reaching my goals .

My concern on the %protein/fat/carbs is just that I worry with cutting my diet I may be starving the muscles and so not be able to persorm as well as I would like and so not build as much lean muscle and therefore burn as much calories as I could. I would like to maximise my efforts .

The diet side is doing ok at the moment. I am looking at adding food to get to 2000 Kcals rather than having to drop stuff which is not so bad. Just eating what I know I should be rather than what I like but know is bad.

RB

Cheers
RB

 

[RimBlock]

I understand your concerns. I was bombarded with the same info when i started. I had a personal trainer and sort advice from forums.

In the end i just got fed up, i didnt lose any weight - I then gave up on the gym. I now do outdoor cardio, and I have weights at home (cost 100 quid second hand of auctionsite). I have seen massive improvment since I started doing it this way.


Each to their own, but I prefer the 'keep it simple stupid' method. Dont over complicate or you will lose interest, just my 2p.

Yep understand and as you say, each to their own. I like the gym as there are a number of blokes from the office who go and whilst we tend not to go together as I leave the office before them, we tend to bump in to each other once there. Makes it a bit more social and gives me some goals to beat (the efficiency of their training without the great OCUK brain trust behind them) . Now what is the exchange rate on 2p .

You need to swim like you mean it again. Just pottering up and down the pool won't help much. Swimming competitively when younger, you should be able to drop back into the the sets you where doing, and the effort you can put in before being knacked is just fitness. Fitness will come back as a reward for more effort in. Once you get fitter and can work harder in the pool, you will loose weight (as long as the Draw of Newtons doesn't overcome your willpower).

There must be some lane sessions somewhere so you can avoid the crossing kids...

The pools get pretty packed here and I tend to find myself 'clashing' with people as they are usually doing crawl and swim close to people swimming in the opposite direction whilst I tend to do breast stroke, at least until my fitness and lung capacity increases.

It is always an option for the weekend though as my son has his swimming lessons then.

Well the first week is over and I feel pretty happy about the diet. Monitoring the calories has given me some better insight although there are foods that I really cannot find any info for (e.g. 7up revive, KFC garden salad, Subway egg mayo). Keeping to around 1400 -> 2100 per day and am finding that I am a bit peckish so am snacking on fruit more so am able to keep up the 'more little meals' regime.

The weights is difficult but for most I have hit the 'failure point'. Unfortunately, I also found the failure point of my gym supplied shorts when trying out squats on the smith machine. I finished the set (3*8) with my butt hanging out and then marched to the front desk and explained that my shorts seemed a little airy and could I have another pair please. The shorts did have a lining which was intact along with my own underwear so it was not as 'naughty' as it might sound although a couple of the ladies were trying to look for the moon when I turned around to show the new ventilation flaps.

As is not unusual, from what I understand, one arm is stronger than the other so I will have to work on that to get them evened out.

Ok, so question time.....

I do my sets but even if they are to failure, 15 minutes later I feel I could go again, should I ??. ie. Bench press 3*8 at the beginning and if I still feel ok then do another round at the end of the workout or would that be too much.

What sort of ratio would you expect between Squat / Leg press / Bench press (ie. upper and lower) ? The squat was at 50Kg on the smith, bench was 45Kg free weight and leg press (45 deg) was 126Kg, not failed yet but close.

On failure, my left arm just went down like a punctured tyre (shoulder press on a plate machine). How do you tell the difference between failure from lack of strength and failure from lack of fuel and if lack of fuel then how best to combat it without upping the calories too much as fat loss is the main goal ?.

So far my trousers feel a little bit looser but not significantly (it's only one week). Maybe it is psychological but if it helps then good.

Anyway, thanks for reading and any replies.

 

[RimBlock]

Squat tends to be a fair bit higher than bench (~1.5x), leg press tends to depend on the machine although tends to be ~ 2xsquat.
Although this all varies from person to person eg you might have a better bench than the average but a worse squat.

Thanks for that. Gives me some sort of idea.

The only issue I have with the squat (excluding clothing problems) is the weight of the bar on my shoulders being quite uncomfortable, maybe due to low muscle mass. Any suggestions on how to make it less uncomfortable or is it just one of those other pains you have to live with ?

Anyone able to help with the other two questions on recognising muscle failure through lack of fuel rather than lack of strengh and what to do about it and if you finish your routine but feel ok, should you continue with more exercises (the same ones or different) ?

Cheers
RB

 

[RimBlock]

The squating pain will get less as you learn to put the bar in the right position, until it goes really heavy I guess . Try putting your shoulders back and pinch them together to create a "shelf" for the bar to rest on.

Thanks Dun,

I will give it a go tonight. I am just about off to the gym now.

RB

 

[RimBlock]

I'm going by the RAF fitness regime at the moment: http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/nextsteps/fitnessprogramme.cfm

I chose Airman which links you to a pdf which gives you a six week fitness programme, if that is any help to you.

That is great, many thanks for the link.

I will continue what I have started and will use it as an alternative for when I hit a wall etc.

RB

 

[RimBlock]

Ok, I gave in.....

As much as I didn't want to weigh myself (it has only been two weeks), I went to a different gym adn they put me through the standard height / weight / bmi tests......

Knowing that there will be differences in the scales readings from before I started to get fit and the one in the new gym, fluctuations due to water retention, food intake etc, I was still happy to see that I have decreased by around 10lbs. I will re-weigh on the original machine in the original gym tonight to make sure. I have dropped a couple of belt notches as well so that is good but still a long way to go (225lbs / 102 Kg now).

So diet is staying around 1,500 -> 2,000 cals / day.
Mon/Wed/Fri for weights (3 sets of 8 max weight).
Tue/Thurs as cardio for 35 + minutes total over 2 -> 3 different machines (20 mins on cross trainer, 15 minutes on bike).

I have a couple of questions which I will put in new threads as putting multiple questions here only tends to get one answered and the others get forgotten or missed.

RB

Edit

Forgot to add a little tip I found out the hard way.......

Needed to get the porrige for a late breakfast and a protein shake so I thought this would be good to added together and give it a try.

Added the powder to the mily then added the oats, gave a good mix and into the microwave......

4 mins later and it smelt quite nice (vanilla flavor powder) but, and yes I can see all those who know shaking their heads at the back, it was awful. The powder had turned in to lumps of congealed lumps and the oats had no expanded as much as usual. Not one to try again

 

[RimBlock]

Well 4 days down with a virus and so will need to get back in the gym today.

Given me a few things to think about though....

I think I was a bit muddled with the aims of the cardio and weights days.
I now believe;
Weights days are to build lean muscle in order to burn more carbs.
Cardio days to burn more carbs.

I have been sticking to a 1,500 -> 2,000 cal diet on all days.

I do a combination of the following exercises depending on what is free at the time in the gym;

Upper
Bench Press - Smith or Free weights
Lateral Pulldown - Cable
Shoulder Press - Plate or weights
Fly - Cable
Row - Cable or Free weights or Plate

Core
Sit twist - Cable
Hyperextentions

Legs
Leg Press - Plate
Squat - Smith

Usually doing 8 different exercises a weights night (Mon/Wed/Fri) with sets of 3*8 reps with < 1 minute rest between sets and < 5 minutes between exercises if possible.

I take a protein shake 30 mins before going to the gym and one as soon as I finish before taking a shower.

Questions;
Is the order of weight exercises important ?
What is the optimum rest time between sets and exercises?
What are the pre workout food / suppliments worth taking a look at and when they should be taken ?
Should I up the calorie levels on weights day to aid performance (fuel the muscles)
What is a reasonable time for a benchpress rep (to top and back to chest), 3 secs total or 3 secs each direction or other ?

I will be dropping the weight levels and concentrating on form as I believe this needs some work rather than just building up the weight.

Many thanks
RB

 

[RimBlock]

Thanks for the replies.

Is the order of weight exercises important ?
Yes, do compound exercises first then finish with isolated movements. (squats before curls etc)

Not quite what I was after but it answered another question I had not thougt of at the time . What I was after was more along the lines of needing to keep the upper body exercises together and moving down to teh leg exercises rather than jumping from shoulders to legs to chest to legs etc.

What is the optimum rest time between sets and exercises?
Rest time depends on what you're doing but because of your goals you should keep them relatively short. 90 secs

Ok so I should aim for 90 seconds and not less to give the body time to 'recharge', so waiting for 45 seconds is a bit to fast between sets ?

What are the pre workout food / suppliments worth taking a look at and when they should be taken ?
Don't worry about supplements. I'd replace the pre workout shake with a proper meal - take a good dose of your daily allowed carbs at this time.

Hmm, not so easy as I go to the gym straight from work and taking a largish meal before the end of the working day will be frowned upon. The shake is easy as I can have at a coffee break rather than coffee. Someone suggested a couple of bananas for example. I may be able to pick up a sandwich or the like at lunch and keep it for pre workout.

How long before should I eat to enable the food to go down ?

Should I up the calorie levels on weights day to aid performance (fuel the muscles)
There's a bit of debate on this point - some say that you need more on rest days because recovery is such a taxing process on the body. I tend to keep my calorie levels roughly the same day in, day out but I'll eat a bit more on a big squat day to push a bit more weight (probably just psychological though)

Ok, thanks. I will keep as it is for now with roughly level cal intake as I am trying to loose the weight so hopefully recovery will help to burn some fat. Maybe I will try a little extra a bit down the line and compare results.

What is a reasonable time for a benchpress rep (to top and back to chest), 3 secs total or 3 secs each direction or other ?
The important part of the movement for growth is the lowering of the weight to your chest (eccentric portion). Slowly lower it to your chest (2-3 seconds), pause on your chest for a split second then explosively push the weight up. Don't lock out or pause at the top! Repeat the movement

Great, I tried this last night and dropped the weight on the bench press right back to 30Kg so I could work on form and took my time. It was still hard even with the 30Kg and yep it was the downword movement which caused more of the burning sensation. I try not to lockout with any movement to enable the continual load to apply pressure without stopping. My arms feel it today. i will slowly build up the weight again from here. This was just what I was after so thanks to both of you.

Your routine could do with fixing

Cool, how ?

The original was kindly supplied by The Craig with the only changes being splitting the cardio and weights to different days and adding a couple more compound exercises.

and your idea of cardio/weights is a bit simplified. Steady state cardio burns calories while you are doing it however high intensity cardio (HIIT) continues to burn calories long after finishing, much like weight lifting. This is the main reason I advocate HIIT over steady state cardio and I'd recommend the same to you. Go jog for a half hour then eat a mars bar and it was essentially a waste of time.

Sure, it was a simple example. I am working up to HIIT at the moment although I was raising intensity on the cross trainer rather than speed at the same intensity. Should it be just speeding up or will raising the difficulty level also do the same ?

Size (i.e. fat) loss seems to be happening at a fairly safe rate which is good at the moment. One thing I want to be careful with is trying to avoid stretch marks of flappy skin especially as I am not as young and 'elastic' as I used to be.

I am now taking multivits and fish oil to help balance things out and to make sure I am not missing something with the calorie controlled diet. Looking at creatine although searching for links for safe usage as I understand you need 'off' periods every now and then.

Oh and squats last night with free weights (not smith machine) went up to 60 Kg which is not bad considering the smith squats were only up to 80Kg and with half the range of movement. They were difficult (due to weight), my back was fine and I can get down to around 5 degrees above parallel with the floor so still need to get a bit more flex but on the whole pretty good for the first free weight squats. The only problem is that the squat rack is right next to the smith machine and if someone is using the smith then there is a chance of the bars clashing.

Once again, thanks for the tonnes of advice and encouragement everyone.

Cheers
RB

 

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Cheers fluffmct,

I do believe in doing something well if I am going to put this much effort in to it and as I am an analyst by nature and trade I tend to ask a lot of questions which people have been very generous in answering.

I will have a look at the dips and chins as they have been suggested a number of times to others questions. The machine for doing those is a weight assisted machine and I would prefer a seperate bar but I will have a go. Of course it is also up by the cardio machines and so all the ladies will get a fun view of me flailing around trying to do the third chin etc but then I am married so why do I care .

Looks like you're enthusiastic and very open minded mate. Won't be long before you see the changes you want to see. Remember to take photos along the way though - you'll kick yourself if you don't!

Thanks, as mentioned I really believe at thowing myself in to these things and hopefully in an informed manner with support here. I really need to get the photos done. I have some from around two months ago when visiting London which really were the kick in the knackers to get me going. They are clothed but still bad enough. Coming up the the 1 month mark so time for weighing, measurements so I can also use that to assess progress. My trousers feel looser so that is motivation enough for now .

Cheers
RB

 

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So,

4 weeks are up although I had 5 days sick (3 training days, 2 weights and 1 cardio).

Thought I would put up some stats so people can see how it is progressing and have something to measure against when they just start out.

Where these is no entry then I didn't do that exercise that day. The purple line is when I tried out a new gym which had very different machines and so didn't do so much. Where the weights have dropped and worked up again I decided to cut back and work on form and have been building up again. Base weight is machine base or weight of an unloaded bar before any plates are added. The weight is only weight added to the bar and not the bar weight as well. I do not do the exercises in the same order each week which can account for some variences in results. All weights are in Kg.

Sheet I take to the gym to help me remember what weights I need to use for any exercise I might do that day (I don't do them all in a session). Weight is excluding bar or machine weight so squat is 50+bar = 70Kg and bench is 30+bar = 50Kg.

Example days diet.

Cardio stats (yes I am aware the last entry does not add up.

Overall in approx cal intake

As you can see, the weight has not significantly come down but as mentioned so many times here, I am not counting on it so much. Size has also not come down or gone up very much either but my trousers seem to fit me better and my pecs, shoulders and arms seem to be better defined. I can tense my stomach now and almost get a straight side profile. It has been a while since I could do that.

The main problem I have is remembering how many Hiit sets I have done in one session as I tend to be full in concentration and loose my count and as I am on the cross trainer it is hard to note down without affecting flow. Any techniques people use to remember the number of Hiit cycles they have done ?.

Cheers
RB

 

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Monday was geat. Got some PB's as se

Worst session in the gym yesterday.

The 3*8 at 50KG (inc bar) bench was a lot more stable and the lat pulldowns were also stronger with the 60Kg but the rest of it just failed at a lot lower reps than Monday so i stopped half way throught the full routine. The leg sets I didn't do which is no real problem as my inner thighs are still paining me from Monday regardless of all the shakes and high protein food I have been trying to eat.

Today I managed my first full 15 minute Hiit session with 2 minute warm up, Hiit at cross trainer level 20 for 30 seconds then level 10 for 1 minute repeating for 15 minutes and then 3 minutes cooldown on level 10. Heart rate peaked at 170 but was between 155 and 170 for most of the time and was generally reducing from 168 to 159 in the 1 minute rest periods during the second half. Quite happy with that so now I will keep going at it and when it starts getting too easy, up the levels.

I also weighed myself yesterday just out of interest and it came up as 102.4Kg which is 4Kg lost in a month or so. I know about daily fluctuations and it was before lunch etc but it was nice to see anyway .

RB

 

[RimBlock]

Friday was a good session and I finally failed with the Lat pulldowns on 65Kg so now it is something to work at.

After a long weekend (Monday being Singapores National Day) it has given an extended time to recover which is good as something went in my back (upper left side just under shoulder blade closer to the spine than the arm) but it seems to have recovered now. My thumb is also hurting between the wrist and where the thumb comes out of the main body of the hand. A strain I am guessing prob caused by the heavy lat pulldowns.

Today is cardio and tomorrow will be weights again. Time to also up the squats as the 70Kg is hard but doable and I am more confident about form.

I thought that I would also post up on only my Fridays weights results so people can compare without having to go through every single sessions results.

I am looking for a replacement for cable flys as the type shown on the inital visit when I had the weight and BMI etc done by the PT had me in the half lunge (more line a stability pose from martial arts), cable flow at shoulder level and more or less doing a press movement (although obviously standing at the time). The problem is that the weight I am now using and angle of pull I am finding is pulling me back to the machine quite strongly.

I am saving the big bodyweight exercises for now (pullups, dips etc) as there is only one machine for that at the gym which is almost constantly in use and is on another floor from the rest of the freeweights.

Any suggestions for a replacement.

Oh and my trousers are fitting better around the waist. Some 38" Dockers trousers seem to have an inch or so to spare which is great but now my thighs are seeming to be bigger as the thigh section of the trousers now seem to be skin tight.

I also had a bit of an 'experience' with my wife deciding that we were going swimming whilst I was at the pool with my older son waiting for his swimming lesson to finish. She found an old pair of shorts for me to wear and brought them to the pool when she came with our toddler. They were black dryfit Nike running shorts. As there was not alternative I went to go and get changed. They were sized as medium and everything was great until mid thigh, it then got a bit tricky . With a bit of wriggling and squerming I finally got in to them (yes I was in a cubicle). The waist had around 1/2 " spare but the rest looked like someone had wrapped black cling file around me including the full length of the shorts legs. Goldmember came to mind but as my wife didn't faint when I came out I guess they were acceptible. Now I just have to get rid of the stomach above the waist line and I will be a lot happier. Upper body is getting results on chest and arms but with a reduced calorie diet obviously not as much as I would like. Ho hum, can't wait to loose the fat and bulk a bit.

Cheers
RB

 

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For people in need of a booster to help keep the tempo of training and weight loss / gain, take a look here here.

It is examples of how things changed after people lost weight / bulked.

I do not believe bodybuilding.com is a competitor. Let me know if I am incorrect please Mods.

RB

 

[RimBlock]

Last nights training was good. My arms and shoulders are aching along with my legs. Failures are doing more reps before failure and a couple of ups for weight on some exercises.

Had a couple of guys come in who look like they were in their 40's and they were doing great big lifts for their arms (dumbell curls, cable rows, ezy curls on the preacher, chest press) The weight was pretty height (well compared to myself) but...... the thing that made me smile was that for all their upper body size in arms and chest (well built rather than body builder size) they had chicken legs . Maybe it was their upper body day asit is the first time I have seen them there but their legs were both very small, possibly smaller than mine.

Also saw a guy, again well muscled, pushing close to 200 Kg on the leg press but the movements were tiny. Possibly they were doing half raises but that was it, no other leg pressing after.

Lots of speed pumpers too. 8 reps as fast as possible rather than controlled.

I like my gym as I feel I am doing well and have a reasonible understaning on what I am doing and how best to do it thanks to the advice kindly offered on here.

There are also a few girls now working the weights section with PT's and it doesn't hurt motivation to get that last rep out with a coupleof ladies around .

I have asked a couple more questions in seperate threads which I will like to from here for those who are following this thread so they don't just dissapear. Seperate threads seem to get more response as I would guess some of the more knowledgeable people may not find this thread so interesting.

Details about fish oils dosage here.

Details about a pre-workout warmup routine here.

Details about a hitting the wall (no more gains) here.

Details about HIIT training here.

Enjoy
RB