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My time to get fit - stage 1 - The beginning.

Discussion in 'Sports Arena' started by RimBlock, Jul 2, 2009.

  1. EdAllonby

    Gangster

    Joined: Jul 7, 2009

    Posts: 274

    Location: Bristol

    I've heard of a muesli diet, not many calories, but lots of protien to keep fit whilst loosing fat.
     
  2. RimBlock

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 10, 2004

    Posts: 2,235

    Location: Expat in Singapore

    Thanks Izi,

    Well done on the weight loss. I will be there one day. I have the added motivation that a friend is paying for a personal trainer and by the sounds of it he is in boot camp wen on training sessions. I would very much like to beat him on reaching my goals ;).

    My concern on the %protein/fat/carbs is just that I worry with cutting my diet I may be starving the muscles and so not be able to persorm as well as I would like and so not build as much lean muscle and therefore burn as much calories as I could. I would like to maximise my efforts :D.

    The diet side is doing ok at the moment. I am looking at adding food to get to 2000 Kcals rather than having to drop stuff which is not so bad. Just eating what I know I should be rather than what I like but know is bad.

    RB

    Cheers
    RB
     
  3. Izi

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 9, 2007

    Posts: 2,716

    I understand your concerns. I was bombarded with the same info when i started. I had a personal trainer and sort advice from forums.

    In the end i just got fed up, i didnt lose any weight - I then gave up on the gym. I now do outdoor cardio, and I have weights at home (cost 100 quid second hand of auctionsite). I have seen massive improvment since I started doing it this way.


    Each to their own, but I prefer the 'keep it simple stupid' method. Dont over complicate or you will lose interest, just my 2p.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
  4. Izi

    Mobster

    Joined: Dec 9, 2007

    Posts: 2,716

    ignore
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2009
  5. aztechnology

    Mobster

    Joined: Aug 12, 2004

    Posts: 2,503

    Location: Oop North

    You need to swim like you mean it again. Just pottering up and down the pool won't help much. Swimming competitively when younger, you should be able to drop back into the the sets you where doing, and the effort you can put in before being knacked is just fitness. Fitness will come back as a reward for more effort in. Once you get fitter and can work harder in the pool, you will loose weight (as long as the Draw of Newtons doesn't overcome your willpower).

    There must be some lane sessions somewhere so you can avoid the crossing kids...
     
  6. RimBlock

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 10, 2004

    Posts: 2,235

    Location: Expat in Singapore

    Yep understand and as you say, each to their own. I like the gym as there are a number of blokes from the office who go and whilst we tend not to go together as I leave the office before them, we tend to bump in to each other once there. Makes it a bit more social and gives me some goals to beat (the efficiency of their training without the great OCUK brain trust behind them) ;). Now what is the exchange rate on 2p :D.

    The pools get pretty packed here and I tend to find myself 'clashing' with people as they are usually doing crawl and swim close to people swimming in the opposite direction whilst I tend to do breast stroke, at least until my fitness and lung capacity increases.

    It is always an option for the weekend though as my son has his swimming lessons then.

    Well the first week is over and I feel pretty happy about the diet. Monitoring the calories has given me some better insight although there are foods that I really cannot find any info for (e.g. 7up revive, KFC garden salad, Subway egg mayo). Keeping to around 1400 -> 2100 per day and am finding that I am a bit peckish so am snacking on fruit more so am able to keep up the 'more little meals' regime.

    The weights is difficult but for most I have hit the 'failure point'. Unfortunately, I also found the failure point of my gym supplied shorts when trying out squats on the smith machine. I finished the set (3*8) with my butt hanging out and then marched to the front desk and explained that my shorts seemed a little airy and could I have another pair please. The shorts did have a lining which was intact along with my own underwear so it was not as 'naughty' as it might sound although a couple of the ladies were trying to look for the moon when I turned around to show the new ventilation flaps.

    As is not unusual, from what I understand, one arm is stronger than the other so I will have to work on that to get them evened out.

    Ok, so question time.....

    I do my sets but even if they are to failure, 15 minutes later I feel I could go again, should I ??. ie. Bench press 3*8 at the beginning and if I still feel ok then do another round at the end of the workout or would that be too much.

    What sort of ratio would you expect between Squat / Leg press / Bench press (ie. upper and lower) ? The squat was at 50Kg on the smith, bench was 45Kg free weight and leg press (45 deg) was 126Kg, not failed yet but close.

    On failure, my left arm just went down like a punctured tyre (shoulder press on a plate machine). How do you tell the difference between failure from lack of strength and failure from lack of fuel and if lack of fuel then how best to combat it without upping the calories too much as fat loss is the main goal ?.

    So far my trousers feel a little bit looser but not significantly (it's only one week). Maybe it is psychological but if it helps then good.

    Anyway, thanks for reading and any replies.
     
  7. The Craig

    Soldato

    Joined: May 4, 2007

    Posts: 7,472

    Location: Warwickshire

    Squat tends to be a fair bit higher than bench (~1.5x), leg press tends to depend on the machine although tends to be ~ 2xsquat.
    Although this all varies from person to person eg you might have a better bench than the average but a worse squat.
     
  8. RimBlock

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 10, 2004

    Posts: 2,235

    Location: Expat in Singapore

    Thanks for that. Gives me some sort of idea.

    The only issue I have with the squat (excluding clothing problems) is the weight of the bar on my shoulders being quite uncomfortable, maybe due to low muscle mass. Any suggestions on how to make it less uncomfortable or is it just one of those other pains you have to live with ?

    Anyone able to help with the other two questions on recognising muscle failure through lack of fuel rather than lack of strengh and what to do about it and if you finish your routine but feel ok, should you continue with more exercises (the same ones or different) ?

    Cheers
    RB
     
  9. dun

    Mobster

    Joined: Nov 5, 2004

    Posts: 4,616

    Location: West Midlands

    The squating pain will get less as you learn to put the bar in the right position, until it goes really heavy I guess :p. Try putting your shoulders back and pinch them together to create a "shelf" for the bar to rest on.
     
  10. RimBlock

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 10, 2004

    Posts: 2,235

    Location: Expat in Singapore

    Thanks Dun,

    I will give it a go tonight. I am just about off to the gym now.

    RB
     
  11. bloodiedathame

    Soldato

    Joined: May 11, 2007

    Posts: 7,262

    Location: Surrey

  12. RimBlock

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 10, 2004

    Posts: 2,235

    Location: Expat in Singapore

    That is great, many thanks for the link.

    I will continue what I have started and will use it as an alternative for when I hit a wall etc.

    RB
     
  13. RimBlock

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 10, 2004

    Posts: 2,235

    Location: Expat in Singapore

    Ok, I gave in.....

    As much as I didn't want to weigh myself (it has only been two weeks), I went to a different gym adn they put me through the standard height / weight / bmi tests......

    Knowing that there will be differences in the scales readings from before I started to get fit and the one in the new gym, fluctuations due to water retention, food intake etc, I was still happy to see that I have decreased by around 10lbs. I will re-weigh on the original machine in the original gym tonight to make sure. I have dropped a couple of belt notches as well so that is good but still a long way to go (225lbs / 102 Kg now).

    So diet is staying around 1,500 -> 2,000 cals / day.
    Mon/Wed/Fri for weights (3 sets of 8 max weight).
    Tue/Thurs as cardio for 35 + minutes total over 2 -> 3 different machines (20 mins on cross trainer, 15 minutes on bike).

    I have a couple of questions which I will put in new threads as putting multiple questions here only tends to get one answered and the others get forgotten or missed.

    RB

    Edit

    Forgot to add a little tip I found out the hard way.......

    Needed to get the porrige for a late breakfast and a protein shake so I thought this would be good to added together and give it a try.

    Added the powder to the mily then added the oats, gave a good mix and into the microwave......

    4 mins later and it smelt quite nice (vanilla flavor powder) but, and yes I can see all those who know shaking their heads at the back, it was awful. The powder had turned in to lumps of congealed lumps and the oats had no expanded as much as usual. Not one to try again ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2009
  14. RimBlock

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 10, 2004

    Posts: 2,235

    Location: Expat in Singapore

    Well 4 days down with a virus and so will need to get back in the gym today.

    Given me a few things to think about though....

    I think I was a bit muddled with the aims of the cardio and weights days.
    I now believe;
    Weights days are to build lean muscle in order to burn more carbs.
    Cardio days to burn more carbs.

    I have been sticking to a 1,500 -> 2,000 cal diet on all days.

    I do a combination of the following exercises depending on what is free at the time in the gym;

    Upper
    Bench Press - Smith or Free weights
    Lateral Pulldown - Cable
    Shoulder Press - Plate or weights
    Fly - Cable
    Row - Cable or Free weights or Plate

    Core
    Sit twist - Cable
    Hyperextentions

    Legs
    Leg Press - Plate
    Squat - Smith

    Usually doing 8 different exercises a weights night (Mon/Wed/Fri) with sets of 3*8 reps with < 1 minute rest between sets and < 5 minutes between exercises if possible.

    I take a protein shake 30 mins before going to the gym and one as soon as I finish before taking a shower.

    Questions;
    Is the order of weight exercises important ?
    What is the optimum rest time between sets and exercises?
    What are the pre workout food / suppliments worth taking a look at and when they should be taken ?
    Should I up the calorie levels on weights day to aid performance (fuel the muscles)
    What is a reasonable time for a benchpress rep (to top and back to chest), 3 secs total or 3 secs each direction or other ?

    I will be dropping the weight levels and concentrating on form as I believe this needs some work rather than just building up the weight.

    Many thanks
    RB
     
  15. Volcs

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 6, 2004

    Posts: 2,496

    Location: Angel

    I consider it a rite of passage.:p
     
  16. Sin_Chase

    Capodecina

    Joined: Jan 13, 2004

    Posts: 20,199

    I am by no means a professional but when I worked with my Personal Trainer on weights it was a strong smooth lift of the weight, holding for a good second then slowly and smoothly bringing the weight back down.

    I find it works you much harder than just pushing out as fast as you can and bringing it back down as fast as you can, holding the strain on the return and keeping it up for a second is so much harder, especially the holding the strain part :D
     
  17. fluffmct

    Hitman

    Joined: May 20, 2008

    Posts: 527

    Location: Belfast

    Is the order of weight exercises important ?
    Yes, do compound exercises first then finish with isolated movements. (squats before curls etc)

    What is the optimum rest time between sets and exercises?
    Rest time depends on what you're doing but because of your goals you should keep them relatively short. 90 secs

    What are the pre workout food / suppliments worth taking a look at and when they should be taken ?
    Don't worry about supplements. I'd replace the pre workout shake with a proper meal - take a good dose of your daily allowed carbs at this time.

    Should I up the calorie levels on weights day to aid performance (fuel the muscles)
    There's a bit of debate on this point - some say that you need more on rest days because recovery is such a taxing process on the body. I tend to keep my calorie levels roughly the same day in, day out but I'll eat a bit more on a big squat day to push a bit more weight (probably just psychological though)

    What is a reasonable time for a benchpress rep (to top and back to chest), 3 secs total or 3 secs each direction or other ?
    The important part of the movement for growth is the lowering of the weight to your chest (eccentric portion). Slowly lower it to your chest (2-3 seconds), pause on your chest for a split second then explosively push the weight up. Don't lock out or pause at the top! Repeat the movement


    Your routine could do with fixing and your idea of cardio/weights is a bit simplified. Steady state cardio burns calories while you are doing it however high intensity cardio (HIIT) continues to burn calories long after finishing, much like weight lifting. This is the main reason I advocate HIIT over steady state cardio and I'd recommend the same to you. Go jog for a half hour then eat a mars bar and it was essentially a waste of time.
     
  18. RimBlock

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 10, 2004

    Posts: 2,235

    Location: Expat in Singapore

    Thanks for the replies.

    Not quite what I was after but it answered another question I had not thougt of at the time :). What I was after was more along the lines of needing to keep the upper body exercises together and moving down to teh leg exercises rather than jumping from shoulders to legs to chest to legs etc.

    Ok so I should aim for 90 seconds and not less to give the body time to 'recharge', so waiting for 45 seconds is a bit to fast between sets ?

    Hmm, not so easy as I go to the gym straight from work and taking a largish meal before the end of the working day will be frowned upon. The shake is easy as I can have at a coffee break rather than coffee. Someone suggested a couple of bananas for example. I may be able to pick up a sandwich or the like at lunch and keep it for pre workout.

    How long before should I eat to enable the food to go down ?

    Ok, thanks. I will keep as it is for now with roughly level cal intake as I am trying to loose the weight so hopefully recovery will help to burn some fat. Maybe I will try a little extra a bit down the line and compare results.

    Great, I tried this last night and dropped the weight on the bench press right back to 30Kg so I could work on form and took my time. It was still hard even with the 30Kg and yep it was the downword movement which caused more of the burning sensation. I try not to lockout with any movement to enable the continual load to apply pressure without stopping. My arms feel it today. i will slowly build up the weight again from here. This was just what I was after so thanks to both of you.

    Cool, how ?

    The original was kindly supplied by The Craig with the only changes being splitting the cardio and weights to different days and adding a couple more compound exercises.

    Sure, it was a simple example. I am working up to HIIT at the moment although I was raising intensity on the cross trainer rather than speed at the same intensity. Should it be just speeding up or will raising the difficulty level also do the same ?

    Size (i.e. fat) loss seems to be happening at a fairly safe rate which is good at the moment. One thing I want to be careful with is trying to avoid stretch marks of flappy skin especially as I am not as young and 'elastic' as I used to be.

    I am now taking multivits and fish oil to help balance things out and to make sure I am not missing something with the calorie controlled diet. Looking at creatine although searching for links for safe usage as I understand you need 'off' periods every now and then.

    Oh and squats last night with free weights (not smith machine) went up to 60 Kg which is not bad considering the smith squats were only up to 80Kg and with half the range of movement. They were difficult (due to weight), my back was fine and I can get down to around 5 degrees above parallel with the floor so still need to get a bit more flex but on the whole pretty good for the first free weight squats. The only problem is that the squat rack is right next to the smith machine and if someone is using the smith then there is a chance of the bars clashing.

    Once again, thanks for the tonnes of advice and encouragement everyone.

    Cheers
    RB
     
  19. fluffmct

    Hitman

    Joined: May 20, 2008

    Posts: 527

    Location: Belfast

    Don't worry about jumping about much as it'll give you a bit of recovery time in certain muscles while you work others. If it's a full body routine though you shouldn't have that many exercises so you won't have to switch back and forth between muscle groups. Squats, deads, chins, bench, dips - fire those round a bit and throw in some isolated movements and you won't be farting about too much.


    Your body will adapt either way. You might find if you are used to 45 seconds then your body will find 90 seconds too long, however at this stage just keep with 90 seconds then when your gains slow down you can tweak timings to keep your body guessing.

    I think most people say an hour or so before working out.

    More compounds and less machine work is right and more bodyweight stuff - dips, chins etc. Not an urgent thing but just would improve the routine.

    I'll let someone else comment on this as although I advocate HIIT over steady-state, I don't actually do either :D

    Looks like you're enthusiastic and very open minded mate. Won't be long before you see the changes you want to see. Remember to take photos along the way though - you'll kick yourself if you don't!
     
  20. RimBlock

    Wise Guy

    Joined: Nov 10, 2004

    Posts: 2,235

    Location: Expat in Singapore

    Cheers fluffmct,

    I do believe in doing something well if I am going to put this much effort in to it and as I am an analyst by nature and trade I tend to ask a lot of questions which people have been very generous in answering.

    I will have a look at the dips and chins as they have been suggested a number of times to others questions. The machine for doing those is a weight assisted machine and I would prefer a seperate bar but I will have a go. Of course it is also up by the cardio machines and so all the ladies will get a fun view of me flailing around trying to do the third chin etc but then I am married so why do I care :eek:;).

    Thanks, as mentioned I really believe at thowing myself in to these things and hopefully in an informed manner with support here. I really need to get the photos done. I have some from around two months ago when visiting London which really were the kick in the knackers to get me going. They are clothed but still bad enough. Coming up the the 1 month mark so time for weighing, measurements so I can also use that to assess progress. My trousers feel looser so that is motivation enough for now :D.

    Cheers
    RB