Myleene Klass + 2yo daughter confronted by intruders; warned by police

[[TW]Fox]

Common sense suggests that they could be armed themselves and had more in mind to do if they got away with the shed.

'Great, we've got all the power tools, shall we leg it or shall we go into the house and knife the homeowner? yea lets do that' ?

Where do we draw the line where we act upon people on our land/property without permission?

The problem is of course that simply being on your land without your permission is not a criminal offence....

 

[semi-pro waster]

Jonathan Shalit, Myleene's spokesperson told the Sunday Telegraph: 'Myleene was aghast when she was told that the law did not allow her to defend herself in er own home.

There has been a miscommunication somewhere along the lines because the law quite explicitly allows the use of self-defence so whether the mistake is that of Ms Klass, her spokesperson or the person explaining the law to her that is quite simply and categorically not the position. And for crying out loud does no one proof read articles any more, simple misuse of words should have been spotted well before this got to print.

However it is important to remember that the right of self defence is not carte blanche to act as you wish. As has been pointed out simply locking the doors and telephoning the police would put her out of risk.

 

[ripperOFflesh]

the laws are a joke she should have waved a newspaper at them and saved herself a warning

 

[Viper²]

Why didn't she just flash her **** at them?

 

[Tefal]

Ah but these guys breaking in were youths. Whats a youth? Does a 14 year old in a hoody count as a youth? Probably. The one just coming over your garden fence right now - whats he after? Your strimmer? Your life? His football? Or what?

Who cares, get out there with a knife.

Ask him before you decide to stab him?


Yelling "what the hell are you doing" is generally what you do when someone's climbing over your fence if they then go "im getting my football, and point at the foot ball" pass it to them.


if they say "shut the **** up and gimme your money" and approach you then you can start waving your cutlery about.

 

[LeJosh]

'Great, we've got all the power tools, shall we leg it or shall we go into the house and knife the homeowner? yea lets do that' ?



The problem is of course that simply being on your land without your permission is not a criminal offence....

I'd be quite annoyed if someone got away with my power tools. And I'd like to try prevent them from stealing them. Also we don't know what was in her shed really.

I know it's not but that why I asked where do we act upon it? But I suppose the golden phrase don't take the law into your own hands comes into play. But they 'youths' broke the law by breaking and entering because it says in the article they got into the garden shed through her kitchen window. Apparently. So had every right in my opinion to defend her home and 2 year old baby.

 

[Tefal]

The problem is of course that simply being on your land without your permission is not a criminal offence....

trying to pry open your shed door on the other hand...


So if you see some "youths" clearly trying to nick your beamer you will call the police close the curtains and simply tut to your self?

Or will you go outside?

 

[meghatronic]

What? There's a difference between waving a knife at an intruder and eating his fingers, and the law should recognize that. It's up to the jury to decide whether you were trying to get someone out of your home or simply torturing them.

I was demonstrating the idiocy in his cry for forfeiting of human rights.

 

[Cosimo]

Why didn't she just flash her **** at them?

It’s not the done thing.

 

[[TW]Fox]

So if you see some "youths" clearly trying to nick your beamer you will call the police close the curtains and simply tut to your self?

Or will you go outside?

Impulse would probably make me at least attempt to run outside. But if I did this, with a knife, and somebody ended up getting stabbed it would be my fault! If you have a knife you are very likely to end up with it being used on you - your average scumbag is probably more adept at... being a scumbag than you are.

Obviously the sensible thing to do would be to call the police and let them continue - the car is insured and my life isn't.

 

[Bluraybunny]

That's what you get with such a form of government we have coupled with a Police force where you need NO formal qualifications to join.

I don't normally get drawn into these kinds of arguments, but this comment disturbes me deeply.

I work in a police force and I fail to see how a formal qualifaction would have changed this situation at all, or the 'quality' of policing.

All police officers (even volenteers) still have training about the law.

A formal qualifaction does not mean you have common sense if that's the implication of your comment.

I think Fox makes some good points. Also remember this is a tabloid newspaper.

 

[Shimmyhill]

There has been a miscommunication somewhere along the lines because the law quite explicitly allows the use of self-defence so whether the mistake is that of Ms Klass, her spokesperson or the person explaining the law to her that is quite simply and categorically not the position. And for crying out loud does no one proof read articles any more, simple misuse of words should have been spotted well before this got to print.

However it is important to remember that the right of self defence is not carte blanche to act as you wish. As has been pointed out simply locking the doors and telephoning the police would put her out of risk.

Proportional self defence, in this case wearing a hoodie and acting like a twot would have been proportional not waving a knife around.

Fox has it bang on.

 

[fini]

Blame incompetent police officers that don't know the law here, not the laws themselves.

 

[aardvark]

situations like this seem to be becoming more and more common - if the police can't defend law abiding citizens the people will defend themselves. the police really need to access their priorities otherwise they might end up with a lot of vigilantism.
The more society goes in this direction the more the general public will go the opposite way and i wouldn't blame the people for becoming more and more angry. The attitude the police have towards victims of crime really needs to change otherwise society will become more and more fractured.

 

[Shimmyhill]

Blame incompetent police officers that don't know the law here, not the laws themselves.

Can we also blame incompetent posters who dont know the law but like to jump on bandwagons ?

 

[Ricochet J]

TTIUWP of Myleene Klass.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Proportional self defence, in this case wearing a hoodie and acting like a twot would have been proportional not waving a knife around.

Fox has it bang on.

Thanks, I'm aware of the law regarding self defence. The point I'm making is that whoever has communicated that information to Mr Shalit is quite clearly wrong in what they have said, the law does explicitly allow you to defend yourself in your own home (and external to your home as well for that matter) provided the measures you take are reasonable and proportionate to the risk (nb there's a fair degree of leeway applied to this measure as well to allow for heightened emotions).

But if you're not in any direct danger (and by the sounds of it Ms Klass was not) then you should not put yourself in greater danger then claim that your actions were in self defence.

 

[Strife212]

I think a bit fat is in order.

It's ridiculous how many people want there to be gaps in the law that allow them to maim, torture or kill... Utterly ridiculous.

And lol @ this:

What?

You honestly think you shouldn't be allowed to defend yourself against anything?

 

[Amp34]

Another Daily Fail article making a mountain out of a mole hill. Nowhere does it say she was given a formal warning or arrested.. Sounds very much like the police officer mentioned in passing that she shouldn't have really gone out brandishing a knife against a goup of kids.

There is such a thing as reasonable force, in both defending yourself and your property. Stabbing an unarmed person (be it a child or adult) is not classed as reasonable force, unless you are being heavily beaten perhaps (and your life in danger). Shooting someone in the back as they are running away is certainly not reasonable force (tony martin). Next time I see someone outside my house looking at it funny i'll make sure I go runnng out brandishing a knife, that should be allowed shouldn't it?!?!

I'm so glad quite a few people on this forum aren't and will never be in any position of power!

 

[Bluraybunny]

situations like this seem to be becoming more and more common - if the police can't defend law abiding citizens the people will defend themselves. the police really need to access their priorities otherwise they might end up with a lot of vigilantism.
The more society goes in this direction the more the general public will go the opposite way and i wouldn't blame the people for becoming more and more angry. The attitude the police have towards victims of crime really needs to change otherwise society will become more and more fractured.

I think this is more endemic of society than the police. The police work with in the laws passed by the judicial system. We've all seen and heard of the politically correct world that lets criminals walk on some legal loop hole or soft sentencing.

Socialy no longer respects, hard working public servants like the police and other emergency services ( stones being throwen at firemen etc ).....with the exception of our armed forces.

In many of those roles, your damned if you do and damned if you dont !