NAS and surveillance advice

[fobose]

Hello all,

I hope this is the right forum to post in, it looks like there are similar threads here.

I've got myself in to a bit of a pickle with my data storage over the years. All my main storage is in my main PC which is not ideal. I used to run 2x 1.5TB RAID 1 and 2x 2TB RAID 1 but I disbanded the arrays a few years ago as I ran out of space and now run all in JBOD. My drives are very old (2009) but going strong (WD green drives).

I've been thinking about getting a NAS for some time now but I am not sure what the best options would be. The simplest and maybe cheapest I think would be to buy a synology 220+ with 2x 10TB WD red drives and run them in RAID 1. I did think about running RAID 5 on the 420+ to gain some extra space but the cost of adding 2 more drives will be quite a lot.

In addition, I would like to install 2 security camera's at my house. 1 for the rear, 1 for the front. I will be running network cables to the 2x outside locations so I would like POE camera's. I currently have a netgear GS308P (55w) POE switch with only 1x nanoHD AP connected to it (no plans to install any more).

My questions:

Does a synology NAS sound like it will suit my needs? Should I look at creating a self build instead?

What camera's should I get?

 

[fobose]

I do have concerns re expansion in the future. If I get the synology 420+ then I could add two more drivers later but only in RAID 1 (unless I some how have a spare 10TB of HDD space to disband the array and create a new one). I could run 2x 10TB RAID 1 and 2x 2TB RAID 1 (reusing my two largest old drives) and just use the 2TB RAID 1 for surveillance, then replace them in the future when required.

Interesting about the WD scandal, I had not heard of it. To be honest I don't know that much about the different types of drives so thanks for that info re CMR.

I think I already know what I need to do, I just wanted other peoples opinions as what I think is normally not always the best way solution. I am keen to not under spend on a system though and regret it later on and need to replace it.

 

[fobose]

You've not mentioned how you intend to backup your data? You mention setting your drives up to mirror, why not use one of those as a backup drive instead?

One thing I never understand when people design a solution, they jump straight into RAID but with no consideration of backup.

The NAS is just for data storage, most of it is not important but if I can have some protection from drive failure that is generally all I need for that. I have a separate external hard drive I backup all important documents (pictures etc) and my brother has a flash drive in his house as an off site backup. Again, just pictures and a few documents.

Synology will allow you to create a 2 drive SHR array (RAID5 equivalent), and then expand to 3 or 4 drives later.

I've personally tried this with a DS1520+ that I recently bought - I only had a pair of 500gb drives around when it arrived, so I used those to set it up.
I then replaced both drives with larger drives when they arrived, and then expanded the array with a 3 drive.

Excellent! I did not know that was possible, thank you for that!

Try to get one with two or more network interfaces. The Surveillance Station software can easily saturate a single 1Gbps connection if you’re running 2 streams from each camera and you’re running high resolution cameras. 2MP (1080P) cameras won’t be an issue but 4K (8MP) with a 720P backup stream will start to interfere with data transfer speed if you’re using it as a NAS as well. Realistically, you want a fairly powerful NAS if you’re running the cameras and NAS features.

I had not thought about that. It looks like the 220+ and 420+ do have two network interfaces, although, the location of where the NAS will be will probably only make one of them useful. This is my current layout and plan, I appreciate it's not ideal. I could put the NAS in to my office but I would rather it be somewhere I am not! I am not able to easily run more cables to the under stairs cupboard either as it is bang in the middle of my property.

Here is a pic of how my network is laid out. I have used cat6 cables and data points.

As for cameras I like the Dahua 5MP TiOC full colour night vision cameras. About £120+VAT from your friendly Dahua reseller.

Cool, I will have a look in to those. I don't mind spending that sort of money for something decent.

 

[fobose]

Im using the 220+ with 2x12TB drives.

Using it for backup and have 2 Eufy WiFi cameras working with it.

Very slick setup.

I shucked my 12TB drives from Western Digital Xbox expansion drives - these contain 12TB Datacentre drives and are half the cost or less than buying them retail.

I can't believe the price difference for them! Which drives did you get out of them?

*edit* sorry you said what drives were in them!

 

[fobose]

I am not looking to purchase anything until Novemeber/December so I will keep an eye out to. That might save me a fortune, especially if I buy the 4 bay NAS.

The Surveillance Station software can easily saturate a single 1Gbps connection if you’re running 2 streams from each camera and you’re running high resolution cameras.

Sorry to quote you again. What do you mean by 2 streams from each camera?

 

[fobose]

@WJA96 Ah, that makes perfect sense, thank you for the explanation!

I think I will dig deep in to my pockets and go with the synology 420+ when I see some 10TB/12TB drives at a good price, as well as the camera's you have suggested. Quite a lot of cash to be spending in one go but totally my fault re the poor storage planning over the years.

Daft question maybe, if I just buy the NAS now without any storage drives, can I still access the feed to the camera's, they just wont be able to record any data?

I can't seem to find the camera prices online (is there an exact model you are referring to)? I can only imagine they only sell direct to installers perhaps? I think I read that in another thread somewhere. Were you the 'friendly' reseller you mentioned?

Looking at the tech specs to one I've found, it uses POE af and 8.8w. My current POE (af) switch has 4 ports, 15.4w per port max so that should be fine on that front as I only have 1 wifi AP connected to it.

 

[fobose]

You will need at least a single hard drive installed in order to be able to configure the Synology.

As I mentioned above, even if you just install a couple of small capacity drives (non-NAS even), you can then upgrade them later with no data loss (although make sure you pick SHR rather than RAID1, that way you will be able to expand later to 3 or 4 drives)

Good to know, thanks! I could use my existing drives, but I don't have enough room to backup the data on to first I might just have to bite the bullet and buy at least 2 new drives and use SHR as you suggest.

 

[fobose]

Maybe I am missing something. I've created an account but it still wont show me pricing. I click on 'sign in for pricing' and it says 'Hello Max'. When I search for the item using the quick find code, it still says sign in for pricing. Do I need to apply for a trade account?

Weird! signed out/in again and now it shows the pricing

 

[fobose]

@WJA96 does the camera come with a junction box? I saw a video of the turret version that looked like it had a junction box in the box, but I can't see anything that shows/list the one you have suggested coming with one.

I am thinking about just buying one to have a play. I didn't realise you could connect directly to the camera using your browser once connected to your network etc. I am a complete newb when it comes to anything CCTV.

 

[fobose]

I will buy one in case I need it. I thought they were needed to hide the extra cables that are attached to the camera? Assuming if I cut those off I will void the warranty?

P.S is the correct junction box this one: DH-PFA130-E ?

 

[fobose]

Fair enough. Hopefully once its tested and working it'll last a very long time.

I've been doing a lot of thinking (very dangerous I know) about best placement for the camera's, where I am going to run my network cable to the front of the house etc etc. I am a bit stuck on where the best place for a camera would be on the front of my house. My garage is set back from the house slightly so no where seems ideal. Ideally I am only really after having the camera keeping an eye on my garage/drive and the gate next to it.

Would a dome camera be best suited where I have indicated the red arrow (as in, on the underside of the white fascia)? I have checked in my garage loft and I have access to that area along the whole of the front.

Actually, maybe bang in the middle of the garage would be best, as it would spot people walking across from where my front door is (blue door). I have gravel next to my car in front of the house.

 

[fobose]

I really appreciate the advice, thank you. Is the camera you recommended still suitable or would a turrent/dome type be better with the arm mount?

Dahua DH-IPC-HDW3549H-AS-PV WizSense TiOC - looks similar to the one you have recommended

Dahua DH-PFB303W - with this arm mount maybe?

 

[fobose]

Dang, that thing is a beast! That looks like it will be plan A then, she wont be pretty

What are your thoughts about placement of my rear camera where I have marked with the blue cross, would it be too high there? I mainly want to view/have detection of anyone trying to get in to the back of the house through any of the lower level windows/patio.

P.S my office is the window next to the blue cross. That is where I will be drilling out of - I am planning to have the exit hole behind the down pipe to mostly hide the cable. A second cable will go down to the patio where I have gravel all the way around my property (I will remove this and run the cable around to the garage for the front camera).

 

[fobose]

@WJA96 For now I am not too worried about covering the whole garden, I quite liked the camera's you recommended due to the quality and the alarm they have on them, I think that would be quite the deterrent for anyone attempting to gain access. What panoramic camera would you recommend if I used those instead? Are they the 'fish eye' type camera's?

I was planning to put data points in my office to make it neat inside (I am a bit OCD with things like that), I was even considering adding two extra points (4 in total) and have the cables outside coiled up and left inside a sealed bag for future expansion (appreciate I would need to buy more licenses for the synology though.

My future plans would be to add a third camera at the other end of my garden (I have a second gate around the corner up the other end). The garden is L shaped and I might put an out building (home office) if finances ever allow in the future, so I could run a network cable along my fence (there is a gap behind all the concrete posts for a nice neat install).

Is the blue cross (pic below) where you suggest the bullet camera should go? What about where I have put the blue circle? I might need a bracket to allow it to stick out a bit further to clear the down pipe, but I think it might give a slightly better view (as in angled downwards towards the patio door direction).

To save potentially bottle necking my network with any future expansion (the office connects to my under stairs cupboard with only 1 cat6 cable) I could install a NVR in the office (with its own monitor attached). I did not want to do this as its something else to heat the room (and I think they might be noisy?). I do have AC so I shouldn't really be worrying about the extra heat. That might be the best route if I decide to increase to 3-4 camera's in the future. However, if I do decide to do this I need to think long and hard before buying an over the top NAS to cover all bases.

 

[fobose]

Ah I think I see what your saying. Perhaps I am being a bit too ambitious of what one camera (the bullet type) can actually cover from that location. It probably doesn't help you can't really see my whole setup so hopefully the pictures below will assist.

And just to confirm, for now, my main objective is just to deter anyone trying to break in to my house. The TIOC camera having that loud alarm when a human is detected looks ideal for this! I am not worried about having full coverage of my garden and I am keen not to cover my neighbors garden at all as I do not want to invade their privacy (they have a small child).

My original thought was to have 1 dahua TIOC bullet camera facing roughly this direction (blue arrow) to view the majority of the back of the house. Specifically; the patio door, single downstairs loo window at the back of the garage, and maybe the kitchen window next to the AC unit (but that might be out of view thinking about it).

The rest of the garden at this point would not be covered, so potentially someone could sneak down by my fence on the right if they were able to get in to the garden further up.

My future plan was to potentially put another camera, bolted a bit higher up on the fence post marked on the picture below with the blue cross (they have holes through them so can easily bolt a piece of timber to it). The camera could either point towards the gate (blue arrow), or towards my bin store.

People can potentially climb over that brick wall (it's only about 6 foot high on the other side where the cars are).

One last thing I should mention, there is a street light in between the two cars in the picture below. It lights up my whole garden normally, but it's been out of action for about a year. We are having trouble with the estate management co to get it sorted.

Is there a fish eye camera that has the same features as the dahua TIOC (i,e the alarm)? If so that would probably be best suited in the middle of the property, one out the front, one out the back.

 

[fobose]

Ok, so I think I have decided what I am going to buy with regards to camera's for now. I can always expand in the future if I feel the need.

2x Dahua DH-IPC-HFW3549T1-AS-PV
2x Dahua DH-PFA130-E Outdoor Junction Box
1x Kenable External CAT6 Outdoor Use COPPER Ethernet Network Cable Reel UTP 100m Black - It won't be enough for everything below, I know. Maybe I should just cough up for the 300m reel.

Required cable runs:
Office -> back of house camera, approx 1-2m max.
Office -> front of house camera, approx 35m max. (I would love to run a second cable so I have a spare in the garage but I am limited to 4 data points).

Nice to have cable runs:
Office -> top of garden future camera, approx 30m
Office -> top of garden (furthest corner) for potential home office, approx 40-50m

---

Due to all the cable future proofing I think its going to make the data point install tricky. I could just have all 4 cables through the wall but I really hate it when cables are like that (but solves all problems, even for having a second spare cable to the garage)

I am thinking my 22mm masonry drill should easily be big enough to allow 4x cat6 cables through without any issues (perhaps I could put a piece of conduit through too). My only concern is there is not much gap between the plasterboard and kingspan insulation on my outside walls (probably about 10mm), so I wont have much room to maneuver the cables so I might have to cut in to the insulation a bit to allow a bend - cat6 being pretty rigid, the external stuff is apparently more so (?).

So I have two options I think.

Option 1, drill in to my back box location (might need to drill inside out for this). I don't think 4 cat6 cables entering through the rear of the back box will give me enough room without putting nasty bends in the cables.
Option 2, drill about 200mm lower down than my back box, make the hole bigger so I can maneuver the cables in to the 10mm void behind the plasterboard and feed in to my back box. That should remove the strain on the cables in the back box.

If anyone else has a better idea re the cables, I am all ears!

 

[fobose]

Should I use a different cable instead of the kenable one? How thick are the cables you use? I've just checked some left over 'Neet® - Cat6 Cable - 24awg Copper Core' that I got from the rain forest last year and I can fit 4x those easily through a 22mm hole (perhaps even up to 7 cables!)

I will make sure I fit the socket at 0.5m from the floor as that is the standard in my house any way. I was only planning on putting a straight bit of conduit through the entry hole, I will now use expanding foam to fix it in place, then fill the opening around the cables as you suggest as that seems a much better idea than silicon as I had planned!

Should I run all the cables in conduit? My plan was to just hide the cables behind the guttering down pipe. The cable that leads to the front of the house I will bury in to the small 30mm gap between my patio/foot path and the house/garage. Unless there are some footings in the way, I need to check that out.

 

[fobose]

Ok great. I will just use the kenable cable for most of the install then (the 3 camera runs). The 4th cable could do with being able to support 1Gbps as that will eventually go in to the 'home office' at the other end of the garden, if finances ever allow.

Point taken re the corner joints! If I was using conduit I would be using them. I was really hoping not to need to run anything in conduit as it's a lot of extra faff so I will go down the route of hiding it. I chose the black cable as I have black guttering / AC trunking.

Thanks very much for all your advice!

 

[fobose]

I've ordered one camera and one junction box now, just to have a play. I will aim to get the camera installed at the back of the house in the next few weeks (I can temp run a network cable out the window to test it). If I am happy I can proceed with buying the second camera and cable reel, then work on the main install.

 

[fobose]

I was a bit bored this afternoon so I thought I would put my mind to rest with regards to location for the network socket (i.e would I run in to some problems). I probably took way longer than most people (1 hour).

First problem, not enough room for the back box! There is a double plug socket 40mm to the left with a 25mm backbox which I can see the foil of the kingspan behind, maybe they recessed it during the installation. Anyway, I carefully cut some out, along with the plastic vapor barrier.

I found some foil tape so I carefully stuck it to the vapor barrier, then pushed it in to the recess.

That'll do. There is a stud on the left which I should be able to get one screw in to (at an angle). I may well bond it in place with some plasterboard adhesive I have once I have routed my cables.