NAS build - any good!

spoiler · 8 May 2021 at 13:14

Hello, I’m looking to build an Unraid box to replace an old Synology NAS.
Use case is for Docker/VMs, file storage, maybe video editing - kept in a cupboard so i skipped the dedicated graphics card.

Having read many pages, watched videos I’ve currently got this parts list (it’s pricey, but less than the new Synology i was looking at!):

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X (£260)
MOBO: AsRock Rack X570D4U-2L2T Motherboard (£450)
MEMORY: G-Skill TridentZ 3200Mhz CL14 memory 32GB (£336)
PSU: be quiet SFX-L 600W (£117)
STORAGE CACHE:
- Asus Hyper M.2 x16 (£39)
- 4x NVMe Lite-ON CX2-GB1024-Q11 1TB or similar (4x £90)
STORGE ARRAY:
- LSI 921X-8i IT mode SAS HBA (£73)
- Mix of 4TB - 10TB WD Red Drives (i.e. 4TB WD Red Plus NAS)
- 2x Mini SAS to SATA Cables (2x £9)
STORAGE: OS:
- SAMSUNG FIT Plus 32GB Flash Drive (£9)
FAN: Noctua NH-L9i (£35)
CASE: Fractal Define 7 XL (£190)

£ Prices were guidelines based on a quick search, probably cheaper is available ?!

Would appreciate any comments, suggestions - thanks

EsaT · 8 May 2021 at 16:06

Does that board support POSTing without GPU?
Because Ryzen CPUs don't have integrated one.

spoiler · 8 May 2021 at 16:35

EsaT said:
Does that board support POSTing without GPU?
Because Ryzen CPUs don't have integrated one.

I think so, yes. I got the basics of this build from a blog post and specifically on this MOBO they stated the following:

On-board graphics!! That’s right this motherboard doesn’t need an APU or a dedicated GPU. The motherboard uses an ASpeed chip to do VGA output. That means that you can access the bios out of the box through the VGA port AND you can display the Unraid operating system using the same graphics chip. This is absolutely wonderful because in the event of troubleshooting you no longer need to swap out PCI-E devices for a GPU. That also means you don’t need to buy an APU that isn’t nearly as high performance as the rest of the Ryzen line up!

Bluecube · 8 May 2021 at 16:56

Why the SFX PSU? There’s nothing stopping you using it but this size of PSU is meant for ITX size builds. I’m sure you’d get more for your money with a bog standard ATX PSU

mickyflinn · 8 May 2021 at 17:09

Psu

XPG Core Reactor 650W Power Supply

spoiler · 8 May 2021 at 17:20

Bluecube said:
Why the SFX PSU? There’s nothing stopping you using it but this size of PSU is meant for ITX size builds. I’m sure you’d get more for your money with a bog standard ATX PSU

It was just one i saw on someone’s build list. I did have a few others as potentials, including:
EVGA SuperNova 750
Seasonic Focus PX 550

mickyflinn said:
XPG Core Reactor 650W Power Supply

Thanks

mickyflinn · 8 May 2021 at 17:33

£336 for 32gb of memory is crazy you could get 64gb for that , do you need such tight timmings ?

Spend the difftence on 12 core cpu or more ram whichever is beneficial to you., or spend it on beer.

eeek · 8 May 2021 at 17:48

Various thoughts

Why that motherboard - I'm currently looking at using a B450M / B550 board with 6 sata ports (as I move my unraid server from a Threadripper 1920 to something faster).

Provided you've got 2 x8 pci-e slots (1 sas controller, 1 video card) you don't need anymore

Also what are you planning to put / run from your nvme cache drives - you only need nvme if you are planning to run a pile of VMs otherwise you just need something that is faster than your network connector so any SSD will be more than fast enough.

Sata controllers can be found at https://wiki.unraid.net/Hardware_Compatibility#PCI_SATA_Controllers you probably want a LSI SAS 9207-8i £55 refurbed on the bay

Also if you are doing video work you do want a dedicated video card even if it's just a 1050 or equivalent (I have a 1060 for plex transcoding).

spoiler · 9 May 2021 at 12:56

mickyflinn said:
£336 for 32gb of memory is crazy you could get 64gb for that , do you need such tight timmings ?

Spend the difftence on 12 core cpu or more ram whichever is beneficial to you., or spend it on beer.

Yes, I did think that memory was pricey! I’ll look for a cheaper option. Cheers

mickyflinn · 9 May 2021 at 13:02

spoiler said:
Yes, I did think that memory was pricey! I’ll look for a cheaper option. Cheers

Memory

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/cruc...00c16-3200mhz-dual-channel-kit-my-20n-cr.html

Link Changed to 3200mhz .

spoiler · 9 May 2021 at 13:16

eeek said:
Various thoughts

Why that motherboard - I'm currently looking at using a B450M / B550 board with 6 sata ports (as I move my unraid server from a Threadripper 1920 to something faster).

Provided you've got 2 x8 pci-e slots (1 sas controller, 1 video card) you don't need anymore

I like this mobo, read a few reviews but i know there’s other (cheaper) options out there.

eeek said:
Also what are you planning to put / run from your nvme cache drives - you only need nvme if you are planning to run a pile of VMs otherwise you just need something that is faster than your network connector so any SSD will be more than fast enough.

Yep, this was definitely OTT but I got the idea from an article which was using this setup:

For my cache storage I am using the Asus Hyper M.2 x16 NVMe adapter. This thing let’s me put 4 NVMe SSDs in it. The best part is, I can do a RAID 10 or full on RAID 0 with my Unraid cache. Or, if I’d prefer, have 2 NVMe drives for my cache in a RAID 1; then the other 2 in a RAID 1 dedicated to Virtual Machines. There are plenty of options available to me here with this card.

eeek said:
Sata controllers can be found at https://wiki.unraid.net/Hardware_Compatibility#PCI_SATA_Controllers you probably want a LSI SAS 9207-8i £55 refurbed on the bay

Also if you are doing video work you do want a dedicated video card even if it's just a 1050 or equivalent (I have a 1060 for plex transcoding).

It’s not really video work, more of shared storage rather than using EXTERNAL DRIVES - e.g. editing footage stored on a NAS.

My challenge with this has been that for the last year I’ve been wanting to get a new NAS box, but found it hard to get a parts list together so keep parking it. I should probably have just got another Synology, but having built a couple of gaming PCs i know I could build a better spec box for cheaper, if only i could nail the parts.
Thanks

Cooler running · 9 May 2021 at 14:07

I have an almost identical build, there are a number of things I think you're going to have issues with:

The PSU's cables will be too short, the Define XL plus SFX-L PSU? you'll likely need an extender kit or different PSU.
This board is known for being the Ryzen ECC board, not a consumer RAM board I'd go for a kit on the QVL list. Can't say for certain but imagine you will get RAM overclocking issues with your B Die kit. I personally bought the 2x KSM32ED8/32ME. 64GB of ECC 3200 sticks which are priced at ~£180 new. https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X570D4U-2L2T#Memory
I considered a HBA, but couldn't find any actual proof that it would be a significant upgrade over the onboard SATA controller, so passed on it. I personally think you'd be better off only going for one of these cards when you run out of SATA. That way you can use the lanes for something else if neeeded.
If you're spending like this installing the OS on a flash drive is beyond me, I recommend using one of your NVME drives for boot. I know it's somewhat common but that still doesn't make it a good idea, usb flash drives have very low durability, it will be a significant hassle to stitch the system back together if the boot drive fails. A cheap 240 GB SSD is only £30, the USB drive makes sense in low cost office PC builds but when building a full custom server you may aswell spend the extra £20 and have a real drive.
The CPU cooler is a strange choice, your case is big enough have much bigger coolers. The Noctua you selected only really makes sense in small form factor builds, I personally just used the AMD stock cooler which came with the 3700x, it's probably just as good as the NH-L9i.

In short if I had to guess I think you've followed a build better suited for a mini-ATX case but in a Fractal XL? I personally would make some changes to take advantage of the room you have in your (rather excellent) chosen case.

Cooler running · 9 May 2021 at 14:27

EsaT said:
Does that board support POSTing without GPU?
Because Ryzen CPUs don't have integrated one.

The motherboard has the ASPEED AST2500 which is a very low end SOC GPU.
It can just about drive 1 VGA/HDMI monitor. It's great for Ryzen for the reasons you mention, in case you want to configure the server in person with a monitor and peripherals.

spoiler · 9 May 2021 at 15:00

Cooler running said:
I have an almost identical build, there are a number of things I think you're going to have issues with:

The PSU's cables will be too short, the Define XL plus SFX-L PSU? you'll likely need an extender kit or different PSU.

This board is known for being the Ryzen ECC board, not a consumer RAM board I'd go for a kit on the QVL list. Can't say for certain but imagine you will get RAM overclocking issues with your B Die kit. I personally bought the 2x KSM32ED8/32ME. 64GB of ECC 3200 sticks which are priced at ~£180 new. https://www.asrockrack.com/general/productdetail.asp?Model=X570D4U-2L2T#Memory

I considered a HBA, but couldn't find any actual proof that it would be a significant upgrade over the onboard SATA controller, so passed on it. I personally think you'd be better off only going for one of these cards when you run out of SATA. That way you can use the lanes for something else if neeeded.

If you're spending like this installing the OS on a flash drive is beyond me, I recommend using one of your NVME drives for boot. I know it's somewhat common but that still doesn't make it a good idea, usb flash drives have very low durability, it will be a significant hassle to stitch the system back together if the boot drive fails. A cheap 240 GB SSD is only £30, the USB drive makes sense in low cost office PC builds but when building a full custom server you may aswell spend the extra £20 and have a real drive.

The CPU cooler is a strange choice, your case is big enough have much bigger coolers. The Noctua you selected only really makes sense in small form factor builds, I personally just used the AMD stock cooler which came with the 3700x, it's probably just as good as the NH-L9i.

In short if I had to guess I think you've followed a build better suited for a mini-ATX case but in a Fractal XL? I personally would make some changes to take advantage of the room you have in your (rather excellent) chosen case.

Many thanks for this - yes you are right I basically ripped off another build but changed the case to another one I liked

PSU: I have Changed the PSU as others have posted, and instead now have either a Seasonic Focus PX 550 or XPG Core Reactor 650W.
Memory: noted, thanks. Although it’s pretty pricey

HBA: Yep, think I’ll drop it for now and just used the onboard controller and see how it works.
FLASH: Sure, it’s not great to use a flash drive for the OS on this one. The mobo has 2x M.2 right, so I can use one of those for the OS. Or even just another SSD connected to SATA ?
CPU: You are right, i guess i was just using a collection of builds to get a parts list and this one isn’t the best option for the case. I’ll go with the stock one for now.

Appreciate it. This thread has been great for fine tuning the part list that i butchered together. Think I’m almost there, and then just need to find in stock parts!

Cooler running · 9 May 2021 at 23:23

spoiler said:
PSU: I have Changed the PSU as others have posted, and instead now have either a Seasonic Focus PX 550 or XPG Core Reactor 650W.

Sounds good, Seasonic make some good PSU's for sure.

spoiler said:
Memory: noted, thanks. Although it’s pretty pricey

The kit you had is £336. My kits cost £356 overall, and I have 64 GB of RAM, and also ECC RAM. I'm surprised you think it's pricey when I'm getting double the amount for only £20 more.

spoiler said:
FLASH: Sure, it’s not great to use a flash drive for the OS on this one. The mobo has 2x M.2 right, so I can use one of those for the OS. Or even just another SSD connected to SATA ?

Any SSD is going to be much better than a flash drive, both in terms of speed and reliability. The last similar build I saw used an ADATA SU630 240GB, which costs all of £26. Even "low end" SSD's will be hugely better than a USB flash drive. I'm personally not sure what you're doing with the two NVME drives currently so only you can answer whether you have something better to do with them.

spoiler said:
Appreciate it. This thread has been great for fine tuning the part list that i butchered together.

Glad I could help, I could barely believe it when I read that you had such a similar build, out of interest what specifically inspired you?

I personally went for this route as I happened to have a spare 3700x sitting around and wanted the ECC memory support.

spoiler · 10 May 2021 at 12:58

Cooler running said:
The kit you had is £336. My kits cost £356 overall, and I have 64 GB of RAM, and also ECC RAM. I'm surprised you think it's pricey when I'm getting double the amount for only £20 more.

Sure, I know the original 32GB memory I listed was pricey compared to others so I was looking for cheaper. But you are right and i should stick with approved memory that’s been tested.

Cooler running said:
Any SSD is going to be much better than a flash drive, both in terms of speed and reliability. The last similar build I saw used an ADATA SU630 240GB, which costs all of £26. Even "low end" SSD's will be hugely better than a USB flash drive. I'm personally not sure what you're doing with the two NVME drives currently so only you can answer whether you have something better to do with them.

My thinking now on drives is:

I was planning on using the two NVME drives in an array and use for Docker, VMs, etc.
Still unsure how many array drives I’ll stick in, but was thinking 6 (4 data, 2 parity - although read quite a bit that says just go with 1 parity for this number of disks. But others stating to go with 2 parity disks whatever ...
Think i still then have 2 on-board SATA connectors so could plug in a smaller SSD for the OS

Would appreciate your thoughts on this?

Cooler running said:
Glad I could help, I could barely believe it when I read that you had such a similar build, out of interest what specifically inspired you?
I personally went for this route as I happened to have a spare 3700x sitting around and wanted the ECC memory support.

Yep, appreciate it. I’ve been wanting/needing to replace my old Synology for ages and really want to try out some Docker stuff. This time I decided to persevere with getting a parts list together as previously I just gave up. I’ve got no spare kit so am starting from scratch.

eeek · 10 May 2021 at 13:07

Cooler running said:
I have an almost identical build, there are a number of things I think you're going to have issues with:

If you're spending like this installing the OS on a flash drive is beyond me, I recommend using one of your NVME drives for boot. I know it's somewhat common but that still doesn't make it a good idea, usb flash drives have very low durability, it will be a significant hassle to stitch the system back together if the boot drive fails. A cheap 240 GB SSD is only £30, the USB drive makes sense in low cost office PC builds but when building a full custom server you may aswell spend the extra £20 and have a real drive..

Unraid boots from a usb key where the id of the usb drive is used as the license for the software - and usb key speed isn't a problem as once booted it runs in memory (my server delay comes from the

But I'm going to leave things here as I can't as yet see any reason for the specification @spoiler is looking at - I just can't see what his use case is for the machine.

For instance what is he doing that requires 64gb of ram and yet only 8 cores.

mickyflinn · 10 May 2021 at 13:11

spoiler said:
Sure, I know the original 32GB memory I listed was pricey compared to others so I was looking for cheaper. But you are right and i should stick with approved memory that’s been tested.

I recommend some memory above Post 10 ,32gb 3200mhz for £150.

While getting memory on the qvl is advisable it shouldn't deter you from others not on the list as 99% of non listed memory work.

Motherboard Manufacturers cannot test every make and model .

spoiler · 10 May 2021 at 14:34

mickyflinn said:
I recommend some memory above Post 10 ,32gb 3200mhz for £150.

While getting memory on the qvl is advisable it shouldn't deter you from others not on the list as 99% of non listed memory work.

Motherboard Manufacturers cannot test every make and model .

Noted, thanks.

spoiler · 10 May 2021 at 14:38

mickyflinn said:
I recommend some memory above Post 10 ,32gb 3200mhz for £150.

While getting memory on the qvl is advisable it shouldn't deter you from others not on the list as 99% of non listed memory work.

Motherboard Manufacturers cannot test every make and model .

eeek said:
Unraid boots from a usb key where the id of the usb drive is used as the license for the software - and usb key speed isn't a problem as once booted it runs in memory (my server delay comes from the

But I'm going to leave things here as I can't as yet see any reason for the specification @spoiler is looking at - I just can't see what his use case is for the machine.

For instance what is he doing that requires 64gb of ram and yet only 8 cores.

I originally specced 32gb ram (which was probably overkill). Someone pointed that I could get 64gb of qvl approved for the same price (and someone else pointed out i could get it for half that).

Use cases are mainly for Docker, VMs, file storage. I think the processor would be fine for this, but if there’s a better option for not much more ££ I’ll upgrade. I think 32gb ram will also be ample.
Happy to be advised