Poll: National service not a bad thing?

[easyrider]

With the youth of today totally narcissist and preoccupied with the self...

Surely National service would bring some needed focus to them?

With unemployment and social issues rife...This could be a useful Avenue ?

I see no harm in 12 months tbh...

Thoughts?

 

[easyrider]

Who is going to pay for it?

A re-giggling of job seekers allowance. (is it still called that)

Is this to thin out the numbers or learn something?

The youth of today are ugly human beings with spoilt tenancies...

Purely to educate and find themselves and give them purpose and self respect.

 

[easyrider]

A nation of young trained first responders, social caring, fit able young people.
Just a dream.

Yeah...Not spitting dummie out cause they can't log onto social media to post a picture of themselves.

 

[easyrider]

70 quid a week isnt going to feed, cloth and train people.

Housing benefits....

 

[easyrider]

Poll

Would 12 months National Service benefit our society and culture ?

Yes
No

 

[easyrider]

Yup no harm except for systemic abuse of young boys and girls that happens in nearly all such state care things.

Bit of a generalisation. Abuse happens everywhere and I would argue the majority I witness is within social peer groups.

I vote that all old people should have to do national service to make up for running the country into the ground

Elaborate

 

[easyrider]

dp

 

[easyrider]

I suggest that the current youth are the same as they always have been. The clothes, music and language is different sure, but the attitude? Exactly the same as when I was growing up in the 70s.

Easyrider, I think it's you that's changed..

I was a self absorbed arse as a teenager

But I got up and let old people sit down on the bus and curbed my language

 

[easyrider]

Older people will say yes, younger people will say no.

I know that's quite a generalisation but I'd wager it's accurate.

I have spoken to a few young people who are bored...

They cant get a job, have little money and and feel confused and angry...

They would relish some kind of Path for a while...

Having said that they are all still annoying little !"£$%

 

[easyrider]

And 12 months later they're probably back to square one.

Most likely with a whole new outlook on life.

 

[easyrider]

A "new outlook" isn't necessarily a "better outlook".

A new perspective on life can only be a good thing no?

Forcing all young people to do a year of "service" just to get something nebulous like a new outlook on life isn't worth the disruption to what they could have been doing with that year.

Like Playing gaming consoles and bumming about the streets? I'm not saying all but there is a culture among the young..I witness it on a daily basis.

I don't doubt that some people would benefit but others would at best feel like they were wasting time or worse, come away from it feeling bitter about being forced to do something they didn't want.

Aww Diddums....

We all have to do things in life we don't want to...Its part of growing up.

 

[easyrider]

Why is that? It's entirely possible for people to see the world in a less pleasant or darker way. Other people in the thread have made comments about abusive situations: these would certainly change your view of the world but not in a good way.

There is a case for that in any scenario...Not just National Service....We get this is schools, Religion, the work place anywhere....Life is unpleasant. And living it with blinkers on in a world of deluded self gratification is not healthy.

Just because some people do it doesn't mean all people do. I see plenty of adults doing these things, and I see plenty of young people who are actually doing useful work. You're making massive generalisations which undoubtedly apply to some people but not all people.

I said not all in my post.

First of all I don't think there's a useful argument in there because it could be used to justify literally anything. Don't like having to pay *all* of your wages in tax? "Aww Diddums....We all have to do things in life we don't want to...Its part of growing up.". It's a non-argument.

12 month service is not a life of tax paying in a job you hate....Its not a big commitment.

Second, there is usually a reason why we have to do things we don't like. Taxes pay for infrastructure, the NHS etc., and working a job (usually) helps society to function in some way in reward for money to pay for the necessities of life. For many people I'd bet there would be no meaningful benefit to a year of national service, you'd simply be holding them back a year from what they actually want to be doing.

Like what would they be doing? They could be doing something to help society rather than flipping burgers to line the pockets of the multi nationals and buy stuff they don't need...They could actually be learning a skill... what could be more useful than that?

Like I said I don't doubt that some people would benefit from it, but making entire year groups do it because some people would benefit? There's not a lot of sense to that and there's no guarantee at all it would make the person a more productive member of society.

a lot of todays youth have low self esteem and this manifests itself in social media insecurity and not finding ones own place in the world.

Having a purpose is psychologically proven to benefit human beings...

 

[easyrider]

The freedoms you have today were paid for by people willing to what you would not it seems.

See what I mean?

Deluded young people with no idea what makes the world tick.

 

[easyrider]

I voted no, I have no desire to do it myself and wouldn't dream of making others do it.

I would never fight in any sort of war for this country either, those who have benefitted most from society can do that or the place can go to hell in a hand basket.

You are aware of the world wars I take it?

 

[easyrider]

Your original comment was "A new perspective on life can only be a good thing no?", so you agree with me that no, a new perspective doesn't necessarily have to be a good thing?

Apart from the obvious. national service would not damage anyone...

So why the desire to force all into national service?

Its only fair.

It's a big commitment for people who will gain nothing. That's a year of experience in a job or of education lost for no benefit.

Many take a year out before university...And employers would probably relish a young apprentice after national service.

Again, you're making generalised statements. What about the young people who have jobs lined up, who want to go into an apprenticeship or want to do a degree? Why would national service be more useful than that? Just because some people might benefit doesn't mean it makes sense to force all people to do it.

As I said :

Many take a year out before university...And employers would probably relish a young apprentice after national service.

Again, while that might help some people it is useless for those who do have self esteem and a plan for their future, while there is absolutely no guarantee temporary national service will fix this in people who don't. It would be far better to spend the money on a system which picks up the people who need help and tries to find them a permanent career, rather than forcing everyone into a year of "service" which then spits them out and leaves them to their own devices.

Thats overly complicated. You state "spits them out" Why would that be the case after meeting new people, learning a trade, understanding life more.

sitting on the dole waiting for a handout is being spat upon...No my idea for National Service is better.

 

[easyrider]

no thanks i don't want every member of a society trained to kill each other.

national service is a tool used to control the working class.

No

Capitalism is.

national service could mean many things...Not just Military training...The army and forces dont jyst kill people you know? They help with Natural disasters etc...

 

[easyrider]

Sending children who are irresponsible, inexperienced, inappropriate to disaster zones? care for the elderly? These are terrible ideas.

Disaster zones: They will be scared, emotionally and potentially physically scarred
Elderly: They need to be qualified and a year in a low funded government service is not going to give them anywhere near the knowledge they need to look after the elderly.
Community service: We already have criminals doing this, do you really want to paint our future generations with the same brush?
.

Who mentioned Children?

I don't condone sending people to disaster zones untrained...But I see no harm in sending a 18 year old to a Flood in the lake District in his last two months of service to aid the rescue...

As for the elderly....It could be as simple as keeping them company...anything, not medical care...

You seem to have tailored your response with false rhetoric to somehow reinforce your non argument

 

[easyrider]

Let's not call it national service then call it forced apprenticeship. Leave the military way out of it.

It needs some kind of order structure...Maybe just not with the guns....But the assault courses , the PE and the structure and discipline would be good.

National Obesity crisis in the UK...

Kids getting fatter

Bring in National Service

 

[easyrider]

If things like climate change go as "predicted" having more people prepared for disasters and disaster relief would not be a bad thing and might be useful educationally as well - potentially extreme freak weather events and increased flooding are possible and likewise being drilled in how to respond to things like a terrorist attack could be useful. Also for many people the biggest hurdle is taking the first step so it could better prepare people for going into some careers they otherwise didn't think they could or didn't know how to approach.

Indeed.

You don't know until you've tried it.

I joined the Air Cadets as a kid....On a whim...

Had no interest in the Military or getting a career in the military

Loved every minute of it. Flying planes, Camping, team spirit, Exercise, Night time manoeuvres in the local Park (supported by the police)

Good times...

 

[easyrider]

So we shirk all responsibility from parenting now to the state oficialy. We will fix your kids when they reach 18. ��

.

Stop being so Dramatic