Natural Sounding amps

[AbsenceJam]

Are you saying then that some high end gear is worth its high cost?

Some 'high-end' gear sounds better than less expensive equipment, of course (but it can be true the other way around). Worth is another matter entirely though, no? There can be huge differences between headphones and speakers that are not only measurable but easy to hear. And your amps, sources etc do need to at least be of a certain quality unrelated to cost. Whereas an audible differences between cables is blatantly false.

 

[marl]

Some 'high-end' gear sounds better than less expensive equipment, of course (but it can be true the other way around). Worth is another matter entirely though, no? There can be huge differences between headphones and speakers that are not only measurable but easy to hear. And your amps, sources etc do need to at least be of a certain quality unrelated to cost. Whereas an audible differences between cables is blatantly false.

So, are you saying then that you can hear huge differences between headphones and speakers, less of a difference between other components such as amplifiers/source components and absolutely no difference between cables?

When you talk about false information, nutters, liars and scammers in your previous post are you talking about people who claim they can hear differences between source components/amps/cables?

 

[negger]

So, are you saying then that you can hear huge differences between headphones and speakers, less of a difference between other components such as amplifiers/source components and absolutely no difference between cables?

When you talk about false information, nutters, liars and scammers in your previous post are you talking about people who claim they can hear differences between source components/amps/cables?

I know you're asking absencejam ... but atm he seems absent

But to me, the nutters, liars and scammers are the ones making the money .... we are all just the victims. I say we, because like absencejam, i have also spent daft amounts of money looking for that extra bit of sound quality. And made my buying decisions after reading reviews and manufacturers sales literature.

Doing a bit of reading up and testing stuff out myself, I have to agree with the conclusions I've read elsewhere in that -

Speaker cable will never effect sound quality as long as it's fit for purpose.

Amplifiers, when set at equal spl, cannot be distinguished from each other with regard to sound quaility.

Components .... the only things i've done is compare a PS3 bluray against my mates £1600 pioneer bluray ..... neither of us, or the others present could tell the difference. And i've compared various cd players, and the conclusion was the same. I'm not talking early cd tech tho .... some of those players were truly awful.

Most retailers i've been too make me cringe when i overhear some of the sales patter they come out with. But there are some good ones out there, we all have to make money and i don't begrudge anyone trying to make an honest crust. These days i prefer to get my info from forums, it's been 20+ years since i bought a hifi mag.

 

[Jano]

Amplifiers, when set at equal spl, cannot be distinguished from each other with regard to sound quaility.

Just LOL. Nonsense. In my own experience, recently, I demo'd three amps. same source. same cabling. Each had a completely different sound. Musical Fidelity M3i, Naim Nait XS, and a Cyrus 8a. Each was completely and utterly different. Source was an M1 CDT and M1DAC. All through PMC GB1i speakers.

 

[Kei]

Most amplifiers can be modified to sound the same, but most manufacturers "colour"the sound in order to differentiate themselves from eachother. People don't tend to like a truely flat sound as it tends to sound a bit thin. Vaying amplifier topology, power supply design and component choice make a big difference as does changing the reactive loads they drive. (the speakers) Plus you have various input/output impedances in addition to the load impedance that all have some degree of effect on the sound.

The topology changes make the biggest difference, as you have class A, class AB, class B, class D, Class AC (current dumping), class G and class T. Most common is AB, but you have varying levels of bias which affects where the crossover distortion occurs, the worst place being in the normal listening level region. There are also various methods of cancelling out most of the distortion too, the norm being NFB. (negative feedback) The type of transistors used in the gain stages of the amp make a difference to the performance too, BJT vs FET for example. (mainly around the point of clipping, FET's are supposed to naturally soft clip IIRC but they have other problems elsewhere)

 

[negger]

Just LOL. Nonsense. In my own experience, recently, I demo'd three amps. same source. same cabling. Each had a completely different sound. Musical Fidelity M3i, Naim Nait XS, and a Cyrus 8a. Each was completely and utterly different. Source was an M1 CDT and M1DAC. All through PMC GB1i speakers.

I've done exactly the same as you, gone to the hifi shop, had a couple of amps to listen to in the demo room. Had half an hour with each amp playing my favorite music. The sales rep explaining that the more expensive amp has this and that extra and adds x or y to the sound stage. I have never been to a demo and not percieved a difference between the amps. Admittedly i always thought the differences were subtle as opposed to night and day.

Now try the same thing at home. Get a few of your mates around with their amps, get one of those spl meters from maplins and set the volume levels equal. Hide the amps so the listeners don't know which is which. Then have you and your mates see if they can tell you which is which. It takes time, i know ..... but not as long as the time it takes to earn the money to pay for some of the more expensive amps out there.

Puts a nice big grin on the face of the guy with the cheapest amp i can tell you .... and it wasn't me

 

[9designs2]

That's why a decent dealer always lets you take stuff home to try out..... well the one's I go too always have...

 

[Jano]

I've done exactly the same as you, gone to the hifi shop, had a couple of amps to listen to in the demo room. Had half an hour with each amp playing my favorite music. The sales rep explaining that the more expensive amp has this and that extra and adds x or y to the sound stage. I have never been to a demo and not percieved a difference between the amps. Admittedly i always thought the differences were subtle as opposed to night and day.

Now try the same thing at home. Get a few of your mates around with their amps, get one of those spl meters from maplins and set the volume levels equal. Hide the amps so the listeners don't know which is which. Then have you and your mates see if they can tell you which is which. It takes time, i know ..... but not as long as the time it takes to earn the money to pay for some of the more expensive amps out there.

Puts a nice big grin on the face of the guy with the cheapest amp i can tell you .... and it wasn't me

I did get to try the Naim and M3I at home, they had two completely different sounds.

 

[marl]

Amplifiers, when set at equal spl, cannot be distinguished from each other with regard to sound quaility.
.

Well, I would not agree with much of what you say, but especially this comment. The component I've listened to most over the years has been amplifiers, and whether it be phono stages, pre-amps, power amps or integrateds I've heard significant differences between them. Indeed, some have been poles apart in terms of the way they present music.

 

[MikeHunt79]

Just LOL. Nonsense. In my own experience, recently, I demo'd three amps. same source. same cabling. Each had a completely different sound. Musical Fidelity M3i, Naim Nait XS, and a Cyrus 8a. Each was completely and utterly different. Source was an M1 CDT and M1DAC. All through PMC GB1i speakers.

Yep, in a perfect world an amp would just apply gain and that would be it.

However in the real world there are so many variables that amps will colour the sound somehow.

I've found swapping the low pass filter chokes on Tripath amps can improve dynamics for example, but even then this is more noticeable with higher sensitivity speakers, so it's hard to say if modding an amp will benefit you until you try it.