• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

Navi Rumours... should i really take these seriously?

Soldato
Joined
18 Feb 2015
Posts
6,484
Navi ought to be an upgrade to a 480. Would be epic lols if it isn't.

Well, even a 590 is an upgrade, the more important thing is how much of an upgrade. It's looking like Navi will be Vega but slightly cheaper perhaps & w/ less power draw. Essentially for a customer nothing really changes, but for AMD the margins should improve dramatically. Of course, as a customer I don't particularly care about AMD's margins. So to wait a few more months for what's essentially a Vega, is a bit pointless considering you could enjoy the same performance right now for not a lot more (if any difference at all - let's remember Polaris vs Hawaii, and this is looking like a repeat of that).

Basically I upgrade for "threshold performance", meaning it needs to allow me a certain level of performance/visual fidelity to be worth it, rather than just some extra fps that may as well be meaningless.

What do I mean? Let me give you the example that's tempting me right now to upgrade. I love AC Origins & Odyssey, playing the heck out of them for the past year or so. Right now I can do 4K 30fps with high enough settings that there's nothing really left to crank up in terms of visual fidelity (outside of super-sampling) nor is an extra 30-40% performance significant enough in terms of framerate that I'd care - it's simply not the type of game where it matters all that much. So now I'm left with super-sampling, which for a V64 it would be too taxing to do & if I go too high 8gb vram wouldn't really be enough. But I really want to do 140-160% render scale at least (at 4K) because it really ups the visual fidelity to a new level, hence VII looking attractive.

So 4K 30 is a threshold, 1080p 120 is a threshold, max settings is a threshold, HD textures etc. and which one's important will depend on the game. E.g. if I played FPS then I'd care more about adding each extra fps, but since I don't or the FPS I do play already run very well (Doom etc) esp. since they tend to be more atmospheric and have me run a custom ultra-wide resolution anyway (which further reduces GPU demand).
 
Caporegime
Joined
17 Feb 2006
Posts
29,263
Location
Cornwall
Yeah I hear you.

Mainstream Navi has to offer 1080 perf or it's a bust for me. And not for £400 either.

According to userbenchmarks that's roughly +75% increase from a 580, which ought to be noticeable.
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Aug 2014
Posts
5,963
No AMD Radeon "Navi" Before October: Report

https://www.techpowerup.com/252382/no-amd-radeon-navi-before-october-report

It seem TSMC 7nm has very poor yield now just like Intel 10nm had very poor yield a year ago, it may be possible Navi launch could be push back into 2020 until 7nm yield improve.
That's very disappointing, I hope Ryzen 3000 is not delayed as AMD can't afford for it to be late, they need to seize the opportunity they have with Intel struggling.
 
Permabanned
Joined
2 Sep 2017
Posts
10,490
It seem TSMC 7nm has very poor yield now.

It doesn't say anything about yield but foundry capacity.

"AMD "Navi" is the company's next-generation graphics architecture succeeding "Vega" and will leverage the 7 nm silicon fabrication process. It was originally slated to launch mid-2019, with probable unveiling on the sidelines of Computex (early-June). Cowcotland reports that AMD has delayed its plans to launch "Navi" all the way to October (Q4-2019). The delay probably has something to do with AMD's 7 nm foundry allocation for the year.

AMD is now fully reliant on TSMC to execute its 7 nm product roadmap, which includes its entire 2nd generation EPYC and 3rd generation Ryzen processors based on the "Zen 2" architecture, and to a smaller extent, GPUs based on its 2nd generation "Vega" architecture, such as the recently launched Radeon VII. We expect the first "Navi" discrete GPU to be a lean, fast-moving product that succeeds "Polaris 30." In addition to 7 nm, it could incorporate faster SIMD units, higher clock-speeds, and a relatively cost-effective memory solution, such as GDDR6."

So, Navi will be September-October-November.
 
OcUK Staff
Joined
17 Oct 2002
Posts
38,231
Location
OcUK HQ
If that is true... Much longer than I had hoped for. Gonna have to buy something then. Will prob buy something tomorrow.


Sapphire Radeon RX VEGA 56 Pulse 8GB HBM2 PCI-Express Graphics Card (11276-02-40G) @ £299.99 inc VAT https://www.overclockers.co.uk/Sapp...ess-Graphics-Card-11276-02-40G-GX-38F-SP.html



11276-02-40G, Core Clock: 1208MHz, Boost Clock: 1512MHz, Memory: 8192MB 800MHz HBM2, Stream Processors: 3584, DirectX 12 Support, Vulkan Support, GCN, Freesync support, 2 Year Warranty.



Only £299.99 inc VAT.

ORDER NOW





;)
 
Associate
Joined
17 Sep 2018
Posts
1,432
Sapphire Radeon RX VEGA 56 Pulse 8GB HBM2 PCI-Express Graphics Card (11276-02-40G) @ £299.99 inc VAT



11276-02-40G, Core Clock: 1208MHz, Boost Clock: 1512MHz, Memory: 8192MB 800MHz HBM2, Stream Processors: 3584, DirectX 12 Support, Vulkan Support, GCN, Freesync support, 2 Year Warranty.



Only £299.99 inc VAT.

ORDER NOW





;)

I probably shouldn't be getting this anyway but is there anyway to get the free postage without having a year's forum membership or making 149 posts in the next 24 hours?
 
Soldato
Joined
28 Sep 2014
Posts
3,437
Location
Scotland
It doesn't say anything about yield but foundry capacity.

The delay probably has something to do with AMD's 7 nm foundry allocation for the year.

Yup no problem with yields but capacity is a problem generally.

No. Capacity is not the issue after all 7nm customers Apple, HiSilicon, Qualcomm and others cut back H1 2019 orders back in December for after poor Q4 sales due to Trump's 10% tariffs hit them all hard and TSMC has plenty of 7nm capacity allocation in H1 2019 left for AMD.

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/tsmc-7nm-node-underutilized-h12019,news-59564.html

If USA and China will not agree on new tariff deal by 1 March 2019 after China 90 day tariff truce end then Trump will increase tariff on Chinese goods from 10% to 25%. So 25% tariff will absolutely no doubted will hit Apple, HiSilicon, Qualcomm, Nvidia, TSMC and others plus China economy and export hardest then TSMC customers will cut back more orders for H1 & H2 2019 and 2020 will leave TSMC 7nm capacity with large of free empty allocation slots.

https://wccftech.com/exclusive-amd-7nm-mobility-supported-oems-and-current-roadmap/

AMD has teething issue with 7nm mobile APUs yield, only Acer, ASUS and HP will risk to support 7nm mobile APUs lineup but Tongfang, Clevo and MSI will not risk to support 7nm mobile APUs lineup but they will stick with 12nm Ryzen mobile APUs lineup. AMD already announced 2nd generation Ryzen mobile APUs based on 7nm last month but we could see laptops with 7nm APUs start to hit selves in Q4 2019 or next year in Q1 2020.

Hmmm it remind me what happened to Bristol Ridge APU pushback many times months after AMD announced it but struggled to find laptops and desktops PC with Bristol Ridge APU in it but no retail Bristol Ridge AM4 APUs.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
13 Oct 2006
Posts
91,151
No. Capacity is not the issue after all 7nm customers Apple, HiSilicon, Qualcomm and others cut back H1 2019 orders back in December for after poor Q4 sales due to Trump's 10% tariffs hit them all hard and TSMC has plenty of 7nm capacity allocation in H1 2019 left for AMD.

https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/tsmc-7nm-node-underutilized-h12019,news-59564.html

If USA and China will not agree on new tariff deal by 1 March 2019 after China 90 day tariff truce end then Trump will increase tariff on Chinese goods from 10% to 25%. So 25% tariff will absolutely no doubted will hit Apple, HiSilicon, Qualcomm, Nvidia, TSMC and others plus China economy and export hardest then TSMC customers will cut back more orders for H1 & H2 2019 and 2020 will leave TSMC 7nm capacity with large of free empty allocation slots.

https://wccftech.com/exclusive-amd-7nm-mobility-supported-oems-and-current-roadmap/

AMD has teething issue with 7nm mobile APUs yield, only Acer, ASUS and HP will risk to support 7nm mobile APUs lineup but Tongfang, Clevo and MSI will not risk to support 7nm mobile APUs lineup but they will stick with 12nm Ryzen mobile APUs lineup. AMD already announced 2nd generation Ryzen mobile APUs based on 7nm last month but we could see laptops with 7nm APUs start to hit selves in Q4 2019 or next year in Q1 2020.

Hmmm it remind me what happened to Bristol Ridge APU pushback many times months after AMD announced it but struggled to find laptops and desktops PC with Bristol Ridge APU in it but no retail Bristol Ridge AM4 APUs.

Look at TSMC's 2018 revenues node share breakdown - you don't get that with poor yields. This is also indicated by 2019 projections but that isn't a sure thing until it actually happens. You don't get reports like https://www.anandtech.com/show/13873/tsmc-7nm-now-biggest-share-of-revenue if your yields are doing an Intel 10nm.

Apple particularly decreased their order book for 7nm but other companies took advantage of that to increase - check the source of that information they reported "unlikely" and other sites have turned that into something else embellishing details that don't exist in the original source. Also don't forget things like the lead times on semi-conductor production it is perfectly possible to have potential under-utilisation while still having capacity issues.

Comparing TSMC 7nm which is in high volume production and they've moved on to taping out EUV designs to Intel's 10nm that has barely got off the ground on the basis of yields is a bit silly.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom