New build advice needed, been 9 years since my last!

[sx_turbo]

So Gen 14 doesn't have that issue? Seeing as you specifically mention 12 and 13, I mean?

TUF - Stop trying to add black into the system! Although, an all black mobo like that would actually be a plausible design choice and might even make the white stuff pop more... but I want the PC to look like it'd fit in the Nostromo (Alien) medical bay!

And I didn't even realise that XMP was an Intel thing so thanks for pointing that out! So I googled stuff and read the AMD equivalent is EXPO... are either of them really worth it? The new memory you specced me there is black! After a bit of digging the only white DDR5 EXPO memory I could find was on Kingston's own site - the part number doesn't seem to exist anywhere else. But it is £133.99 for 2x16 6000 sticks so it's not terrible... if EXPO is worth it.

My £1800 budget is not absolute - I don't really want to spend more than 2.5k (inc. all the white stuff in the initial post) in total as that feels to me about the most I want to spend. But I can push it up some more to make things work well together and to maintain the aesthetics.

The expo does make a useful (in my experience noticeable improvement)

 

[Tetras]

So Gen 14 doesn't have that issue? Seeing as you specifically mention 12 and 13, I mean?

I think it does have the same issue.

I have read manuals for 14th gen boards and they say the same thing (use the PCI-E 5.0 M.2 slot, lose the graphics).

With the Aorus Master X Gigabyte appear to have gone "**** it" and included 2x CPU M.2 slots. If you use the PCI-E 4.0 one, then you get full speed everything, if you use the 5.0 one, you get 8x graphics again. Loadsamoney board, so why not?

TUF - Stop trying to add black into the system!

You started it! *

but I want the PC to look like it'd fit in the Nostromo (Alien) medical bay!

Ooh, then the MSI Z790-A MAX (guaranteed 14th gen) would suit it, or NZXT N7 Z790, or Gigabyte Aero-G Z790.

And I didn't even realise that XMP was an Intel thing so thanks for pointing that out! So I googled stuff and read the AMD equivalent is EXPO... are either of them really worth it?

EXPO: For the X3D? Not particularly. For a non-X3D? Yes.

XMP: It partly depends on the resolution (well, RAM speed always does).

You may want to watch this (4800 CL40 is JEDEC, they used Crucial sticks. Everything else uses XMP or EXPO):

Ryzen 9 7950X3D Memory Scaling Benchmark, Does DDR5 Performance Matter?

Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/hardwareunboxedJoin us on Floatplane: https://www.floatplane.com/channel/HardwareUnboxedBuy relevant products ...

www.youtube.com

For other workloads, puget have an article here:

Impact of DDR5 Speed on Content Creation Performance (2023 update)

DDR5 memory has kits rated for up to 8400 Mbps, while desktop CPUs only officially support up to 5600 Mbps. How much does running at official specifications actually impact performance in common content creation applications?

www.pugetsystems.com

The new memory you specced me there is black!

- OCUK don't have any white EXPO memory for the AMD build (that I could find), so I substituted the Vulcans.

Same issue applies, so I didn't bother repeating it

After a bit of digging the only white DDR5 EXPO memory I could find was on Kingston's own site - the part number doesn't seem to exist anywhere else. But it is £133.99 for 2x16 6000 sticks so it's not terrible... if EXPO is worth it.

You may want to read this:

Can you get CORSAIR DDR5 for AMD EXPO platforms in white? | CORSAIR:EXPLORER

The short answer is no. The longer answer is you may be able to do it, but it's not going to be easy.

www.corsair.com

My £1800 budget is not absolute - I don't really want to spend more than 2.5k (inc. all the white stuff in the initial post) in total as that feels to me about the most I want to spend. But I can push it up some more to make things work well together and to maintain the aesthetics.

If it was me, I'd say the following:
(AMD) 7800X3D - always buy.
(AMD) Motherboard with at least 3 M.2 slots - always buy.
4070 (e.g. Asus Dual White) or 7800 XT (e.g. Sapphire Pure) - minimum required.

So if you need to stretch the budget for any of that, I would.

* probably, idk

 

[Rroff]

I think it does have the same issue.

I have read manuals for 14th gen boards and they say the same thing (use the PCI-E 5.0 M.2 slot, lose the graphics).

With the Aorus Master X Gigabyte appear to have gone "**** it" and included 2x CPU M.2 slots. If you use the PCI-E 4.0 one, then you get full speed everything, if you use the 5.0 one, you get 8x graphics again. Loadsamoney board, so why not?

I've not actually tested it - but I've the Z790 Aorus Master (not X) with a 14700K and pretty sure the top PCI-e 5.0 M.2 slot still reduces your main x16 slot down to x8 bandwidth if you populate the M.2 slot, there is also the additional x4 PCI-e 4.0 M.2 slot from the CPU which doesn't share bandwidth. Unfortunately not easy to test without taking half my system apart now.

EDIT: 14th gen still only has 16 lanes capable of PCI-e 5.0 bandwidth, supposedly that is increasing to 20 with 15th gen - still pretty meagre really

 

[jabokai]

Just some thoughts...

I noticed that both the example build pics I posted from Lian Li's site have the radiator the wrong way up! I find it hard to understand why manufacturers are still doing this - I thought the consensus was the pipes should be at the bottom of the rad, and the pump should be (at least) lower than the top of the rad. Basically to take care of air in the system, and yes that does happen even in a closed system! Ideally, it should be top mounted, of course, but not possible in the case I'm choosing. What's strange is that Lian Li built it the right way round for the reveal of the case at Computex here - https://youtu.be/428XUc3JqCQ?t=54 - I'm guessing they just do it for "sales pics" but it means people will end up just doing it that way.

I also noticed that the fans on the AIO are exhausts. I did some reading and it seems to be another "up for discussion" thing, but I did find some tests where it showed that (looking at the 2 main heat components of CPU and GPU) having an AIO as exhaust affected the CPU temps considerably more than the reverse. I found a video where the exhaust AIO setup increased CPU temp by 10 degrees but the reverse scenario only increased the GPU by 1 degree. My view is that the airflow in that case (lacking a top position for fans as it does) should be exactly as Lian Li picture on their own site - pasted below.

All that said, I think the fans on the Galahad II are standard Infinity fans, nothing unique to the AIO. So I was thinking I could take them off and use 2 of them as my rear exhausts and then buy 6 reverse fans (3 for the cooler, 3 for the bottom). They do differ in spec slightly -

Normal
MAX. AIR PRESSURE - 2.66 mmH2O
MAX. AIRFLOW - 61.3 CFM

Reverse
MAX. AIR PRESSURE - 2.02 mmH2O
MAX. AIRFLOW - 63.6 CFM

From my understanding you'd generally go for fans with a higher pressure for a radiator, but does it really matter too much? I also found this quote on Lian Li's site for the reverse fans - "LOWER WIND NOISE. When installed as intake fan with the reverse blade, the wind noise is lower than the regular blade. Note: More obvious when installed on a radiator" - the fact they mention using them on a rad suggests to me there is no issue there.

Finally... I might be overthinking all this - maybe I should just mount the rad the wrong way up, as an exhaust!

 

[jabokai]

The case is now available to pre-order at OCUK - done! Now I just need all the crap that goes in it!

 

[jabokai]

Just an update - everything except the GPU (and associated Strimer cable) has been ordered. Probably going to stick my 1080 in until the nvidia refresh, even though it's not going to match the aesthetic! I'm still swithering though, and might say "stuff it, I'm getting one now" if I get impatient!

So I went for

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D 4.2 GHz 8-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Lian Li Galahad II LCD SL-INF 79.9 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Asus PRIME X670E-PRO WIFI ATX AM5 Motherboard
Storage: 2 x Samsung 990 Pro 4 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive
Case: Lian Li O11 Vision ATX Mid Tower Case
Power Supply: Thermaltake Toughpower GF A3 Snow 1050 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply
Case Fan: 6 x Lian Li UNI FAN SL-INF Reverse Blade 63.6 CFM 120 mm Fan
Custom: Lian Li Strimer Plus V2 24-pin RGB motherboard cable
Custom: Kingston FURY Beast RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL36 Memory EXPO White

That all came to £1897.30 so leaves me with £602.70 (on my nominal budget of 2.5k) for the GPU and Strimer. I'll basically be getting a 4070 Super if the prices are okay, or an outgoing 4070 hopefully at a discount price. Might also need an internal usb hub (I can't be bothered working it out at this stage!) so that'll be about £25.

I also managed to get my 2 x 4Tb M2s! I'm sure it's obvious that I didn't order all this from OCUK and I know we can't link to competitors (which is fine of course) but I know they must appreciate that one of the benefits of doing your own build is shopping around and I ordered from 5 different stores so I actually think that's quite good, spreading the cash around a few different businesses.

Thanks for your help all, especially Tetras.

 

[jabokai]

So here's how the build's going so far...

Yeah, it's not! There's no case so I decided to make one out of wood...

Okay, you got me, that's not a case, it's really to replace the carboard box that comprises my current PC "stand"!

Hurry up with the case Lian Li/Overclockers or all my components will be out of date! I have a free return until 31st Jan on the GPU... I decided I didn't want to wait for the Super refresh, but depending on how long the case takes, I might.

 

[jabokai]

And there we go, job done!

https://flic.kr/p/2pktNzZ

Apart from tidying up wiring some more, and getting the missing silicone grommets for the holes up top.

 

[jabokai]

Just a final update... I realise that sometimes people may ask for help here and then are never heard from again - I figured it was polite to show what you helped me create!

I tidied up the cables, got nicer looking CPU power extension cables, attacked the drive cages (which are going in the recycle bin anyway!) with Dremels to harvest some honeycomb to fill in the unsightly gaps either side of the lower fans, and put in a screen at the top to fill in space. I'm not really a fan of screens in cases as I think it's essentially not very useful, but meh, the dead space was annoying so figured it was the lesser of two evils!