New build estates - why?

[Richie]

Well the answer would be no, hence why I don't live in a city and I live in the Chiltern AONB.

However, I don't see how these landscaped areas are that beneficial? There's so many houses in one area, with the layout being optimised for # of properties, that you're surrounded by other houses more than greenery.

I don't see housing estates that are saying 30 years old with landscaped open spaces or children's parks in the middle of them. Perhaps councils are forcing these new estates to have mini parks in them as local ones become saturated as population grows.

There is so much contradiction in the above post its hard to know where to start.

You dont want to live in a concrete jungle. I think it would be fair to say that most people would want the same. Yet, in the next sentence you fail to see what benefits that open, landscaped areas within modern developments will have. So which is it? Have them as concrete jungles with no open areas, which people don't want, or have some open areas for people to relax in?

As for housing estates from 30 years ago not having open spaces/children's parks etc - Would it be fair to say that developers have learned that the concrete jungle estates you describe are not ideal hence why they changed to having open spaces within them?


Is it possible that, given you live in an AONB, you may have a bit of a blind spot in this discussion?

 

[Mekrel]

There is so much contradiction in the above post its hard to know where to start.

You dont want to live in a concrete jungle. I think it would be fair to say that most people would want the same. Yet, in the next sentence you fail to see what benefits that open, landscaped areas within modern developments will have. So which is it? Have them as concrete jungles with no open areas, which people don't want, or have some open areas for people to relax in?

As for housing estates from 30 years ago not having open spaces/children's parks etc - Would it be fair to say that developers have learned that the concrete jungle estates you describe are not ideal hence why they changed to having open spaces within them?


Is it possible that, given you live in an AONB, you may have a bit of a blind spot in this discussion?

It's not contradictory at all, because a tiny bit of greenery in the middle of a densely populated housing estate isn't comparable to living in the country side. Especially when you've got to pay an uncapped service charge to maintain it.

I'm not sure why you keep referring to the only choices as open space and concrete jungle? Concrete jungles to me are cities, but there's also urban based houses on B roads that have perfectly adequate front lawns and drive ways that are a far cry from "concrete jungles".

No blind spot here. Intact I used to live on a Taylor Wimpey estate that used to be an old RAF base, but was occupied by the Americans before it closed. As a result, there was plenty of green spaces where the baseball and American football pitches were, and a kids playground and outdoor fitness area (that never opened within the two years I was the after the council u-turned on adopting it) and other spots of green spaces.

So I have experience of living in an urban area, on a new build housing estate and in a hamlet in the countryside. I found living on a 400 home housing was like living on top of other people, no matter if there were patches of greenery here and there.

I had sympathy for those who were annoyed by the council's U-turn and the resulting request to add maintenance of the play/fitness area to the service charge.

For reference:
I don't consider this to be a concrete jungle, it has no open green space near by and you're not packed in like a sardine.

 

[LiE]

The reality is, there isn’t enough good existing house stock for buyers. Massive new build estates offer lots of options for buyers. Some even prefer buying a new house over an older one.

I’m in the process of moving from a 1950s house to a new build. It’s a small developer, the plot has 12 homes. The fee is £35 per month, which I would prefer not to pay but there are quite a few green areas, trees and hedges to maintain.

The appeal for us is £22k of stamp duty paid, all flooring and appliances, turn key. I’ve had my fill of fixing up on the house we have lived in for 10 years.

 

[fez]

It's strange councils are so broke considering the number of these developments. Most seem to be claiming it's due to adult social care being passed onto them from the government? I appreciate there's some individual cases such as bad investments (was it Thurrock that invested in solar farms that were essentially a scam?)

Our council's (Bucks County) state doesn't seem to add up. It's £300m in debt but becoming a Unitary council was supposed to save costs...

People massively underestimate the cost of everything these days. They underestimate how a single bad decision on the councils part can ruin them for years. They underestimate what the council have to try and provide and how little money they have to do it.

Much like healthcare in this country, people have no ******* idea how much their fat asses cost the government because its "free" and "I pay my taxes".

 

[Jim99]

The reality is, there isn’t enough good existing house stock for buyers. Massive new build estates offer lots of options for buyers. Some even prefer buying a new house over an older one.

I’m in the process of moving from a 1950s house to a new build. It’s a small developer, the plot has 12 homes. The fee is £35 per month, which I would prefer not to pay but there are quite a few green areas, trees and hedges to maintain.

The appeal for us is £22k of stamp duty paid, all flooring and appliances, turn key. I’ve had my fill of fixing up on the house we have lived in for 10 years.

Yeah. I live in something like what OP describes, and obviously I don't want to pay an estate charge, but ultimately where I am if you want a house that's big enough they're going to either be new builds or highly desirable old-style houses that are £400k more expensive.

And as much as I don't like paying a couple of hundred per year in charges, I can't float an extra £400k - nor would I unless it was far better than I what I have now.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I am getting more confused by the OP each post.

If everyone moved to an AONB then they would by default no longer be so.
If we all spread out to not have estates then everywhere would be lightly populated and no real green spaces.

Not only that, all the infrastructure would have to expand as well. Shops, major roads etc.

So maybe a better question should be. Why do we allow a few people to spoil AONB by living in them.
Should we force them to stop being so selfish and move them into urban areas, then rewild these AONB properly from the eyesore of houses?

 

[dirtychinchilla]

I've had two new builds and there are two attractions for us: help to buy, and a virtually maintenance-free house.

The help to buy has been amazing. We have a big chunk of equity in our property as a consequence of that and price rises.

I am nervous about when our HTB comes to and end next year, though. Our mortgage will be going up quite dramatically.

 

[Demon]

I live on a late 80s estate that has lots of green areas, to the point I am in a close that has a green opposite, the next is about 400m away, and from that one, there are wooded walks through the estate to the surrounds of the estate which backs on to a Large park area (with childrens play area) and a golf course.. Or we can walk 3/4 mile to a massive park with 4 football pitches that has a huge wooded area surrounding it

Its also on the periphery of the Cotswolds AONB and we have many friends who live in the countryside..

Ironically, as a dog owner, we find the estate is immensely convenient and well designed since we only have to walk 400m and we can let the dog off the lead for 3-5 miles as we walk through the estate via the wooded walks, around the surrounding area, through several public rights of way around the golf course etc.. By contrast, our friends in the Cotswolds have no real open spaces near them (largely private land and famrs) that they can let the dog off, so have to drive their dog to the nearest open area/public footpaths etc..

Its extremely dependent on the estate, but there are definitely nicer designed estates around, ours is old, but they've minimised overlooking as much as they could, so behind us we aren't backed on to others, we have houses at 90 degrees with no windows on our side, making it only our immediate neighbours that can slightly overlook.

We have a few new estates within a few miles, one of them is awful concrete hell, almost no open spaces, no 'grass' or other frontage to the properties and it feels oppressive, then further down the road we have another estate that has much neater fronts with grass and nice metal fencing and they've spaced the houses a little better, but still have small gardens and gardens back on to each other so are all a bit overlooked.. They have put in walks around the estate, a large reed pond and access to local green areas so you could have a fairly OK dog walk without having to get in the car..

 

[Mekrel]

I am getting more confused by the OP each post.

If everyone moved to an AONB then they would by default no longer be so.
If we all spread out to not have estates then everywhere would be lightly populated and no real green spaces.

Not only that, all the infrastructure would have to expand as well. Shops, major roads etc.

So maybe a better question should be. Why do we allow a few people to spoil AONB by living in them.
Should we force them to stop being so selfish and move them into urban areas, then rewild these AONB properly from the eyesore of houses?

People seem to be getting their knickers in a twist about the AONB piece, when my opening post was trying to understand why people pay the markup compared to a second hand and put themselves at the mercy of (potentially) uncapped maintenance fees.

Some have engaged in the discussion and given good answers around incentives, housing availability and being at that point in their life of wanting something that is modern and complete.

This isn't an attack on new build houses themselves, more the design of the estates they sit on. I've recently visited three NB estates and there's a clear trend of there being no space at the front of the house, with the front door one paving slab from the pavement and small gardens at the back. Ultimately I would imagine this is down to the developer maximising revenue by having more homes on the land.

My home is far from perfect, whilst not out dated so to speak, I would like to replace the kitchen and bathrooms as they're a little surgical being all white and the kitchen space is poorly laid out. We're also on kerosene heating oil which means large outlays with minimum order qty of 500 litres.

 

[Demon]

This isn't an attack on new build houses themselves, more the design of the estates they sit on. I've recently visited three NB estates and there's a clear trend of there being no space at the front of the house, with the front door one paving slab from the pavement and small gardens at the back. Ultimately I would imagine this is down to the developer maximising revenue by having more homes on the land.

Its not just developers, councils/gov't have insane targets to hit, so they almost want to cram as many in as possible, or build next to a motorway or on a flood plane, etc.. i.e. they almost seem to love creating the worst estates possible..

It all feels wrong to me, I'd want estates to be well designed, more spacious, more frontage, a reasonable garden, (.e.g 100-150m2 minimum) and nicely designed to minimise overlooking and as with our estate, add in nice walks for people/dogs/children as well..

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

People seem to be getting their knickers in a twist about the AONB piece, when my opening post was trying to understand why people pay the markup compared to a second hand and put themselves at the mercy of (potentially) uncapped maintenance fees.

Some have engaged in the discussion and given good answers around incentives, housing availability and being at that point in their life of wanting something that is modern and complete.

This isn't an attack on new build houses themselves, more the design of the estates they sit on. I've recently visited three NB estates and there's a clear trend of there being no space at the front of the house, with the front door one paving slab from the pavement and small gardens at the back. Ultimately I would imagine this is down to the developer maximising revenue by having more homes on the land.

My home is far from perfect, whilst not out dated so to speak, I would like to replace the kitchen and bathrooms as they're a little surgical being all white and the kitchen space is poorly laid out. We're also on kerosene heating oil which means large outlays with minimum order qty of 500 litres.

Its not the developers that set housing density its the councils as part of their housing plans.

No offence but are you from the UK originally?
There are millions upon millions of old UK houses that have a tiny front garden and many have a tiny back garden.

My 1890s I mentioned was one of them.
The tiny front garden was only literally a place to drop the coal before it went into the cellar at the front.

My last house was a town house which opened directly onto the pavement (a modern award winning estate) and it was fine. Bar the odd time someone would come and park really close for some odd reason.

We have more urban sprawl, or more housing density. There isn't really any choice.

 

[Worthy]

I've had two new builds and there are two attractions for us: help to buy, and a virtually maintenance-free house.

The help to buy has been amazing. We have a big chunk of equity in our property as a consequence of that and price rises.

I am nervous about when our HTB comes to and end next year, though. Our mortgage will be going up quite dramatically.

This is one of the problems when you sign up to HTB and the repayment plan is only "We'll remortgage in five years". I made sure that when I signed up for HTB I had a solid plan where I could save enough every month to pay it off from my savings without having to remortgage - which really is what everyone should do or you end up eating into that equity and giving it back to the bank. Also the HTB scheme has changed hands in terms of the company who handles it since it first started, and it's a pain in the behind to pay back. You need to budget another £2-3k in valuations, solicitors fees etc to pay it back and the paperwork is a shambles - it isn't just a case of handing over the money. I ended up paying for my mortgage advisor to handle it on my behalf just to save the headache. Also if you're remortgaging to take out money against the house to pay the loan back, you'll limit your options in terms of mortgage providers and may notice the rates being higher.

 

[Mekrel]

Its not the developers that set housing density its the councils as part of their housing plans.

No offence but are you from the UK originally?
There are millions upon millions of old UK houses that have a tiny front garden and many have a tiny back garden.

My 1890s I mentioned was one of them.
The tiny front garden was only literally a place to drop the coal before it went into the cellar at the front.

My last house was a town house which opened directly onto the pavement (a modern award winning estate) and it was fine. Bar the odd time someone would come and park really close for some odd reason.

We have more urban sprawl, or more housing density. There isn't really any choice.

No offence taken, I'm born and bred here.

 

[Richie]

... my opening post was trying to understand why people pay the markup compared to a second hand and put themselves at the mercy of (potentially) uncapped maintenance fees.

Simply put there is very little choice. We currently don't have enough housing supply in the second hand market to meet demand so someone needs to buy the new homes or else be homeless.

 

[LeeUK]

The service charge for unadopted estates is just another scam for the developer and their chums to make more money. Council will adopt new estates if they meet the standards and are asked too.

It's why it's been coined Fleecehold.

 

[jpaul]

I’m in the process of moving from a 1950s house to a new build. It’s a small developer, the plot has 12 homes. The fee is £35 per month, which I would prefer not to pay but there are quite a few green areas, trees and hedges to maintain.

fee is exclusively for green/visible areas ? ... the more problematic one discussed in house thread, are unadopted sewerage systems, which may include communal pumps/tanks -
which our fee covers.

 

[LiE]

fee is exclusively for green/visible areas ? ... the more problematic one discussed in house thread, are unadopted sewerage systems, which may include communal pumps/tanks -
which our fee covers.

Will see what comes back in the conveyancing.

 

[Junglist]

I thought HTB looked like a bit of a trap so I avoided it, but people are always talking about it so must be quite a high take-up.

I don't understand people who think it was a trap. Without HTB we wouldn't have been able to get on the ladder when we did. Our plan was always to do HTB, get the house then when the 5 years for the interest free loan was up, roll that into our mortgage. Yeah, it sucks paying back the 20% when the time comes but without that help, you wouldn't have anything to pay back anyway.

Had a friend who was really critical about HTB and new builds and I never understood why. We've just sold our first house and waiting to move into our next house which is also new build again.

Had zero issues with out current home and I expect a lot of the new build fears comes down to the developer.

 

[Richie]

I don't understand people who think it was a trap. Without HTB we wouldn't have been able to get on the ladder when we did. Our plan was always to do HTB, get the house then when the 5 years for the interest free loan was up, roll that into our mortgage. Yeah, it sucks paying back the 20% when the time comes but without that help, you wouldn't have anything to pay back anyway.

HTB in Scotland was a bit better in the repayment aspect (no set loan period and no interest in the loan) albeit the limit was the new house was a max of £200k

Had a friend who was really critical about HTB and new builds and I never understood why. We've just sold our first house and waiting to move into our next house which is also new build again.

Had zero issues with out current home and I expect a lot of the new build fears comes down to the developer.

I find a big issue with people's opinions on new builds is they keep comparing them to older houses WRT to build quality. It's almost as if they fail to realise that these older houses also had snags when they were new, it's just they have had many years/decades to have these snags rectified.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Most old houses also still need a huge amount spending on them to bring them up to a good standard for an old house.

Successive owners don’t spend that money because ‘I only plan to live here for 5 years’ and eventually they get to the point they require so much spent on them it becomes prohibitively expensive.

People look at things like solar panels the same way and they never get installed.