New Formula 1 Qualifying Rules!

muon · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:27

Who says the tyre rules will remain the same?

Your own link says details are yet to be decided.

They might even allow racing pitstops with refuelling (as unlikely as it is). They were certainly thinking previously of bringing it in for races.

Skeeter · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:29

muon said:
You will burn off fuel.

That is why lap times improve in a race even on the same set of ageing tyres.

Managing your pace over a 20+ lap stint on harder tyres is very different to going flat out with 10 laps of fuel on the softest compound.

Quite often you will hear drivers saying the peak performance of the tyres in Qualifying is less than a lap. There's no way there then going to go faster 10 laps later.

Skeeter · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:31

muon said:
Who says the tyre rules will remain the same?

Your own link says details are yet to be decided.

They might even allow racing pitstops with refuelling (as unlikely as it is). They were certainly thinking previously of bringing it in for races.

How exactly would you retro fit race refueling setups to the cars and gear all the teams up in 3 weeks? Lol.

The link does say details are yet to be decided, but it also confirms that the cars must be on track until they are eliminated. That pretty much confirms a single set of tyres per session and no pit stops.

muon · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:35

Is the pitlane not part of the track?

Who knows what that actually means.

Skeeter · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:36

muon · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:37

Skeeter said:
No

The intention is clearly to get people out of the garages more often.

That is all it could mean. I see no reason to read some phrases in a black and white manner.

Skeeter · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:39

I don't think there's any other way to read this, is there?

drivers must be on track throughout each part until they get knocked out.

You must be on track and have set a time by the end of 7/6/5 minutes (depending on session) and then stay on track until your eliminated.

muon · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:45

I could interpret that in a few different ways to how you have done.

For example, it could simply mean that Hamilton can't wait for the last 2 minutes to set his hotlap.

Skeeter · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:45

Adam Cooper already has quotes from people inside teams wondering how this will work

"I'm currently struggling to see how this changes how we operate as the tyres are generally only good for one hard lap," he said. "So we won't be driving around on sub-optimal tyres."

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-teams-agree-elimination-style-qualifying-for-2016-675278/

muon · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:48

So that sounds like you don't actually have to be out on track. You just have a big incentive to be out on track as much as you can on fresh tyres.

One team insider did suggest, however, that the change to the format would not actually be that big a revolution as it sounds.

"I'm currently struggling to see how this changes how we operate as the tyres are generally only good for one hard lap," he said. "So we won't be driving around on sub-optimal tyres."

Skeeter · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:50

ESPN also interpreting it as needing to be on track for the whole session

Formula One is set for a revised qualifying format this year with live elimination during the session to spice up the show.

The new format was agreed at a meeting in Geneva of the F1 Strategy Group and F1 Commission to discuss ways to make the sport more exciting. The agreement to change the format is targeted at mixing up grids without using artificial measures such as reversing the order.

The new rules will still see qualifying divided into three segments, with drivers expected to be on track throughout and eliminated during each session. The first session will last 16 minutes and after the first seven minutes a driver will be knocked out every 90 seconds until 15 are left. The same will apply in Q2 with further seven set to be knocked out by the same method until eight remain.

The final eight will then shoot it out with the eliminations starting again after the first five minutes until two cars are left on track battling for pole.

The new rules are likely to cause a few upsets at certain races and will offer action throughout the sessions.

Further details of the decisions made by the Strategy Group and F1 Commission, including areo regulations for 2017, power unit supply and cockpit proctection, are expected to be communicated on Wednesday.

http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/14831484/f1-agrees-shake-qualifying-format

muon · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:51

Again, they are not suggesting that. You are reading it the way you want to.

Nor is their interpretation necessarily any better than yours.

Skeeter · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:55

muon said:
So that sounds like you don't actually have to be out on track. You just have a big incentive to be out on track as much as you can on fresh tyres.

But look at the time you need to actually stop. At Spa a hot lap is 1:50, an out lap is 2+ minutes, plus a 25 second pit stop for tyres. That's 4 and a half minutes, not including any time you need to get back to the pits. That means that if your in 21st, 20th, or 19th place at the 7 minute mark of Q1 then you may as well give up, as you haven't got time to pit, change tyres get out and set a better lap time before you will be eliminated anyway.

Duke · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:57

Will wait and see. I think the current qually set up works quite well already.

Skeeter · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:57

muon said:
Again, they are not suggesting that. You are reading it the way you want to.

Nor is their interpretation necessarily any better than yours.

I don't understand how "on track throughout" can mean anything else? Sure the rules aren't confirmed and may change, but in terms of interpreting what has been written, "on track throughout" means being on track throughout.

The_Abyss · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:58

Skeeter said:
And what the hell is this going to do to Monaco!

Hopefully accelerate its removal from the F1 calendar.

muon · 23 Feb 2016 at 22:58

"Throughout my life I have watched Formula 1"

A. muon is watching Formula 1 24/7
B. muon very often watches Formula 1
C. muon has seen every race in his lifetime

Skeeter · 23 Feb 2016 at 23:00

Duke said:
Will wait and see. I think the current qually set up works quite well already.

In reality it will go the way of most other Strategy Group suggestions that get put in front of the WMC, it will be rejected.

The bigger issue is that they all spent the whole day locked in a room with the express instruction to agree the 2017 regulations, and all they have come up with is a way to **** about with the one part that wasn't broken.

The 2017 rules decision has been pushed back AGAIN, this time to the 30th April. They should have been agreed by this coming Monday.

NooBish AbbZ · 23 Feb 2016 at 23:04

I think this could be excellent, does sound a bit complicated but i'm sure it would become very clear very quickly once cars are actually on track.

Bring it on!

Skeeter · 23 Feb 2016 at 23:14

These guys also interpret it as being on track all the time, needing durable tyres:

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/bo...qualifying-format-set-to-be-introduced-in-f1/

But they also raise a good point about Red Flags. How would that work? If you red flag a session you would effectively automatically eliminate the next few drivers without giving them a chance to compete. In my Spa example your looking at 4+ minutes from a session restarting before times are set, which would be enough to eliminate up to 3 drivers. If you throw a red flag at 6:59 into Q1 you lock 22nd, 21st, 20th and probably 19th into their grid slots rather unfairly.

The end of Q3 could also be dull. At the moment you could get 10 people all crossing the line one after the other going for pole with positions jumping about. Under this scheme, there will only be 5 cars left on track with 6 laps to go, dwindling down to a final minute and a half of just waiting for the 2 cars left to finish.