Man of Honour
Don't see why it's confusing. It sounds pretty simple to me. I like it.
New Formula 1 Qualifying Rules!
- Thread starter Skeeter
- Start date
Soldato
One negative though is that is basically splits the field into three leagues and the worse performers in each "league" get less running in qualifying.
So using new rules on last years cars, Manor are not getting 15mins of track time in Q1, they are getting ~5/7 minutes.
Now this could be turned into a "spice things up a bit" scenario, where cars have to start the race on the final set of tyres they used in qualifying, or they have to use that set at some point in the race.
So using new rules on last years cars, Manor are not getting 15mins of track time in Q1, they are getting ~5/7 minutes.
Now this could be turned into a "spice things up a bit" scenario, where cars have to start the race on the final set of tyres they used in qualifying, or they have to use that set at some point in the race.
Its not complicated. It a good system that works well elsewhere.
The issue is that it doesn't work when combined with how F1 works and the current rules.
If you put an F1 car on a track with 10 laps of fuel and a set of Ultra Soft tyres for 15 minutes, it will get slower as the session progresses, not faster. The elimination system relies on a format where cars get faster (or at least stay consistent) over the whole session.
The time thing is actually going to be quite significant to the lower teams. Currently they can have contracts with sponsors that say "at least 18 minutes of TV air time in Qualifying", whereas under this rule they would have to say "at least 7 minutes". Might not sound much, but If your at the back of the grid with small sponsors on very marginal contracts, that 60% reduction in exposure is going to affect those deals.
But isn't it same for everyone?
Thus cars with better tyre wear rather than outright pace gain an advantage?
Again, I know this isn't pure, and that I see F1 more as entertainment now so accept we may disagree,.. But won't this help mix up the grid?
Yes, if a car is fast and good on its tyres it will have an advantage.. But guys like perez could do well (if he's still good on tyres)
I don't mind cars getting slower, more mistakes.. Its same for everyone.
I still think it's better than old format myself
I'll work through one session to try and explain my concern.
At qualifying pace on the softer end of the tyres available usually there's 1 hot lap of outright pace in a set, maybe 2 at some tracks.
Q3 is 16 minutes, with the first elimination at 7 minutes in.
That means that all 22 cars will have to have set a time within that first 7 minutes, so that will be using that tyres 1 lap of outright pace.
From then on there are 2 options:
If theres no pit stops - you have 9 more minutes of drivers on ever degrading tyres going slower, rendering that 9 minutes utterly pointless.
If there are pit stops - nobody who is within the next 2 or 3 places to be eliminated can make a stop and get out in time to try and post an improved time, so will be eliminated anyway. Rendering most of the remaining 9 minutes utterly pointless.
In summary, I can see a system where the best times in a session are all posted within the first 7/6/5 minutes, and the remaining 9 minutes of the session are just people unable to improve waiting around to be eliminated.
I also don't think that dwindling the field down to 2 cars at the end is exciting. There were complaints when the rules mean lots of times we only saw 6 or 8 cars in Q3, under these rules you would have only 8 at most, and the number would drop to just 2 at the end. Currently (ignoring Mercedes dominance) with 3 minutes to go in Q3 we could theoretically have any one of 10 people on pole. Under these proposals, with 3 minutes to go we will know it will only be between 2 drivers, which could be a) on old tyres not likely to improve, b) in the pits or making a pit stop meaning they won't have time to improve, or c) out on track and going for it, but only 2 cars.
A 10 way shootout for pole is more exciting than a 2 way one.
And then theres the Red Flag issue, which basically kills the whole idea on its own for me.
At qualifying pace on the softer end of the tyres available usually there's 1 hot lap of outright pace in a set, maybe 2 at some tracks.
Q3 is 16 minutes, with the first elimination at 7 minutes in.
That means that all 22 cars will have to have set a time within that first 7 minutes, so that will be using that tyres 1 lap of outright pace.
From then on there are 2 options:
If theres no pit stops - you have 9 more minutes of drivers on ever degrading tyres going slower, rendering that 9 minutes utterly pointless.
If there are pit stops - nobody who is within the next 2 or 3 places to be eliminated can make a stop and get out in time to try and post an improved time, so will be eliminated anyway. Rendering most of the remaining 9 minutes utterly pointless.
In summary, I can see a system where the best times in a session are all posted within the first 7/6/5 minutes, and the remaining 9 minutes of the session are just people unable to improve waiting around to be eliminated.
I also don't think that dwindling the field down to 2 cars at the end is exciting. There were complaints when the rules mean lots of times we only saw 6 or 8 cars in Q3, under these rules you would have only 8 at most, and the number would drop to just 2 at the end. Currently (ignoring Mercedes dominance) with 3 minutes to go in Q3 we could theoretically have any one of 10 people on pole. Under these proposals, with 3 minutes to go we will know it will only be between 2 drivers, which could be a) on old tyres not likely to improve, b) in the pits or making a pit stop meaning they won't have time to improve, or c) out on track and going for it, but only 2 cars.
A 10 way shootout for pole is more exciting than a 2 way one.
And then theres the Red Flag issue, which basically kills the whole idea on its own for me.
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Soldato
Another reason I like it - it's likely that Merc will miss a few poles that they would have got with the old system... that means starting from say 5th-7th maybe even meaning we get to see them overtake, and a lot more overtaking too...
There have been enough races last season where pole has been to easy with the best car, and then the driver, be it Ham or Ros has just sailed off into the sunset and we've had really boring, processional races... heck sometimes the Mercs in those races have hardly had any tv time at all - 2 laps at the start and a lap at hte end of the grand prix more or less!
This will shake things up, it'll eliminate processional races, it'll spice up the first 10 laps wickedly. AND we get to see what the so called best drivers in the world are truly made of and see their mettle properly tested - if you're that good, rather than just coasting to victory on your own for an hour and a half 10 - 30 seconds ahead of anyone without having to do overtakes, let's see you earn the win, let's see some proper overtaking, properly thinking and rejiggin strategy.
It could be epic.
There have been enough races last season where pole has been to easy with the best car, and then the driver, be it Ham or Ros has just sailed off into the sunset and we've had really boring, processional races... heck sometimes the Mercs in those races have hardly had any tv time at all - 2 laps at the start and a lap at hte end of the grand prix more or less!
This will shake things up, it'll eliminate processional races, it'll spice up the first 10 laps wickedly. AND we get to see what the so called best drivers in the world are truly made of and see their mettle properly tested - if you're that good, rather than just coasting to victory on your own for an hour and a half 10 - 30 seconds ahead of anyone without having to do overtakes, let's see you earn the win, let's see some proper overtaking, properly thinking and rejiggin strategy.
It could be epic.
Soldato
Tyre deg, mistakes, being bunched up by other cars, weather etc.
Have you forgotten how difficult it is to follow another car hence the boring races. Many of the drivers have complained of their inability to follow another due to loss of downforce.
The qualifying format was fine it was the races that needed fixing. Coupled with the new confusing tire rules just makes F1 look stupid. Simplify the front wings and allow cars to follow closely and that will do wonders for the racing.
Soldato
2017 will fix that, for now we'll have to live with DRS, and let's face it a Merc is gonna be able to catch up and overtake anyone.
Don't think so smr. The Mercs as far as I am led to believe struggle to follow behind another car. Not sure about the Ferrari's though. But looks like this will be rubber stamped soon and I hope for the sake of F1 it works and does not penalize the faster cars on race day.
No, it really wont.
It will be 2018 at the earliest. And the latest direction is one where the "5 to 6 seconds faster" target has been dropped to "2 to 3 seconds faster", and the changes in the rules are based on increasing aero through increased complexity of front wings, sidepods, rear wings and diffusers, all of which reduce the cars ability to follow each other.
The 2017 (2018) cars will be faster, but the racing will be worse.
Soldato
- Joined
- 7 Feb 2011
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This format is the most imbecilic thing I can imagine. If you get a puncture on your out lap, you are eliminated because you won't be able to set a lap time within 7 minutes. If two cars collide on their first out laps and damage each other but can return to the pits for repair, whoever ran the lightest fuel load in FP3 will be able to carry on while the other driver is eliminated.
Soldato
One thing is certain - there's going to be an almighty scrap to get out the pit lane first...
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
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Errm, what..... Manor have contracts for a minimum of 18 mins tv air time... when in reality they are lucky to get 30 seconds coverage in Q1 and never make it beyond Q1? Have you been smoking something?
Even Merc will be extremely unlikely to get more than 2 mins coverage in Q3.
Currently no teams go out for all of Q1, Manor included. If/when Manor performance improves and currently their car looks significantly more competitive(it has aero bits that don't look like a first year uni student made them this year and a engine probably 3 seconds faster than last years) they will be closer to the cars ahead. A small mistake and a bad lap, being 3/10ths down could mean a Sauber ends up behind a Manor and a Manor isn't out first.
That is the point, over 15 minutes mistakes are evened out, only car breakdowns will have a real effect on the running order and Manor(or whoever is slowest) wouldn't have a shot of finishing anything but last.
EDIT:- I think people forget not only was it a 2014 car for Manor with marginal differences, it was a 2014 Ferrari engine, which was genuinely pathetic and it was up against 2015 engines. Ferrari 2014 was like 1.5-2 seconds slower than Merc, which got faster in 2015 and will no doubt be faster again this year. Manor will gain more time than anyone else by a huge amount.
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Soldato
That might depend upon whether cars have to use the same amount of fuel as each other and if this amount is greater than the amount needed for a qualifying session.
If cars can choose how much fuel to run, the urgency to be first out will be much less.
But then they need a rule clarifying at what point is a team/car deemed to be stalling their exit from the pits once a qualifying session has started!
Can of worms.
The other main thing people are missing is the spectacle for people actually going to the races. Their opinion carries far more weight than TV viewers who just take an hour out of their day to watch qualifying.
Who likes buying a Qualifying ticket to only see the best teams do 3-5 hotlaps each.
Who likes buying a Qualifying ticket to only see the best teams do 3-5 hotlaps each.