New graphics card - £170-£240 range

[Nuclear Fusion]

If you remember, I put it down to garbage ATi not garbage MSi - as this was realised later.

I will admit, I bought an ATi card expecting it to be inferior to nVidia, and I wasn't surprised at all when it was.

(I was hoping to be pleasantly surprised)

Really now, come one, you act as though getting a faulty AMD card is a frequent occurrence, whereas faulty Nvidia cards don't exist. There is a pretty similar chance of problems with either manufacturer, you just happened to be unlucky with your card which happened to be an AMD card. For all your talk of 'expecting it to be inferior to nVidia', it is only to your loss, because the 660Ti is undeniably the inferior card.

 

[SkodaMart]

Anyhow, all I am saying is the GTX 660 Ti is actually a very good card.
I am fully aware that it has been 'hobbled' by nVidia to make it fit in with their line up, but that doesn't stop it being a great performer at 1080p.
I also admit that it is overpriced, it should be around £200 IMO.

You could argue that the GTX 660 is a better buy, however the extra performance of the GTX 660 Ti over the GTX 660 really does come at a vital point. Those extra 10fps make the difference between smooth play-ability and having to turn settings down.

I do think however that GTX 660 SLi is possibly nVidias best 'bang for buck' solution at around £320.

 

[SkodaMart]

It wasn't faulty hardware I was expecting from ATi, it was the dreaded driver demons. I even started a thread I was that anxious about it:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18446828



Shame on me!

 

[Rusty0611]

Anyhow, all I am saying is the GTX 660 Ti is actually a very good card.

It's as good as any other card as there's no such thing as a bad card - just an overpriced one and the 660Ti is a touch overpriced

It should be priced just above the HD7870 as this is where it is aiming at. nVidia cards nearly always carry a premium of some sort.

 

[SkodaMart]

Wow that was very civilised!

I'm off to bed!

 

[spoffle]

I must admit, I was shocked when I looked the price of the GTX 660 Ti had risen!

I have nothing good at all to say about the HD 7950 (as you know) mine didn't work properly. I am also glad I didn't RMA it as I was unable to reliably reproduce the faults.

It makes very little sense to blame AMD for your card's issues. They supply the GPU and the board partners do everything else.

It also makes little sense that you're suggesting your experience of 7950s is the definitive experience.

I've had 4x 7950s in total, 2 MSI Twin Frozrs and 2 HIS X2s, the MSI ones were from the faulty batch, but I was sensible about it, I returned them for HIS ones.

I wasn't even *that* against swapping them for other MSI ones because I was more than aware that it was a faulty batch, but I didn't fancy messing about with the chance of me getting another faulty one so I just went with HIS instead.

It won't put me off MSI in future either, because I know that sort of stuff just happens. What would you do if you got a faulty nVidia card? Only use Intel integrated GPUs and claim nVidia is also bad because of your limited experience?

I fully expect you wouldn't do that.

 

[Catch!]

The Wraiths of the wild graphics card hunt have driven off yet another unsuspecting thug

Nah, I'm still here
I was not expecting such a response - thought I'd leave it for a few days and maybe get 5-10 replies!

As for Nvidia vs AMD, I was kind of going for Nvidea because it's what I've always used, but I'm not rabidly anti-AMD. If there's that much of a performance difference, I'll certainly consider otherwise.
I (evidently naively) assumed that both brands would be broadly the same value for money, but another thread challenged those assumptions somewhat - hence this one.

Give me a few hours to get home and digest everything that's already been said, and I'll get back to you later!

 

[SkodaMart]

I've had 4x 7950s in total, 2 MSI Twin Frozrs and 2 HIS X2s, the MSI ones were from the faulty batch, but I was sensible about it, I returned them for HIS ones.

I knew nothing at all about a 'faulty batch' at the time I bought my card, I was one of the first to have issues.
I was sensible about it too, I sent it back under DSR as the faults where too minor to RMA it for.

but I didn't fancy messing about with the chance of me getting another faulty one so I just went with HIS instead.

so I just went with nVidia instead

It won't put me off MSI in future either, because I know that sort of stuff just happens. What would you do if you got a faulty nVidia card?

Most of my PC is MSi, my previous cards where MSi GTX 470 Twin Frozrs, and yes I did get a faulty one, it was massively overheating so I RMA'd it.

The HD 7950 was different, it performed well in some games and poorly in others, it would have been very hard to RMA, and I expected to get it back with 'no fault found' which would have been the worst outcome for me.

What would you do if you got a faulty nVidia card? Only use Intel integrated GPUs and claim nVidia is also bad because of your limited experience?
I fully expect you wouldn't do that.

As it turns out, my 'gut feeling' was correct. I am very pleased I didn't send it back for another MSi HD 7950 due to the number of problamatic cards there have been.

I dare say your HIS cards are great, but that information was unavailable at the time I returned mine.

 

[spoffle]

I knew nothing at all about a 'faulty batch' at the time I bought my card, I was one of the first to have issues.
I was sensible about it too, I sent it back under DSR as the faults where too minor to RMA it for.

You're not being sensible about it now though based on posts you've made with regards to it.

so I just went with nVidia instead

That's what I was getting at, you're asserting that "NVidia fixed it" when in actuality, another non-MSI Twin Frozr fixed the issue.

Most of my PC is MSi, my previous cards where MSi GTX 470 Twin Frozrs, and yes I did get a faulty one, it was massively overheating so I RMA'd it.

The HD 7950 was different, it performed well in some games and poorly in others, it would have been very hard to RMA, and I expected to get it back with 'no fault found' which would have been the worst outcome for me.

Well that's kinda what I was getting, the performance was erratic for me too. The reason why I said you weren't being sensible is because you chose it as an opportunity to claim that you've had an AMD issue when it was an MSI issue.

As I asked, if you had issues with an nVidia card, would you blame nVidia, or would you be sensible about it?

As it turns out, my 'gut feeling' was correct. I am very pleased I didn't send it back for another MSi HD 7950 due to the number of problamatic cards there have been.

Your gut feeling wasn't correct, you have claimed something along the lines of "Going for an AMD card will give me trouble" which while technically correct, is a misleading way of saying it. You've had a bad card from a bad batch made by MSI and that's all there is to it, the only reason AMD is a factor is because they are cards MSI has made with AMD parts.

I dare say your HIS cards are great, but that information was unavailable at the time I returned mine.

That's fair enough, they are very good. My comments are really about the follow up posts you've made since, and what seems to be over the top defending of your GTX660Ti that comes with it. But looking at it from a completely neutral perspective, even if there wasn't a bad batch of cards from MSI and you got a bad one, it means just that, a bad card. It happens, people get dodgy/bad/DOA cards from nVidia too and everything else.


That's what I was getting at when I asked you what you would do if you ever got a duff nVidia card, would you act the same way? Or just suck it up and accept that you got a bad card and get a replacement?

Some people hold the very same sentiments as you do about AMD cards, but about nVidia cards, and they would justify the same actions if they ever gave nVidia a try and got a bad card.

 

[Gregster]

@gregster We are talking about a guy with 3 posts (OP) he has specified an nVidia card.

The answer therefore is the GTX 660Ti.

You are well within your rights to direct OP towards the HD 7950 or point out the fact that the GTX 660 Ti is currently overpriced.

All of which I agree with.

This however does not change the fact that the ONLY answer to OPs original question is the GTX 660Ti.

Nah, I'm still here
I was not expecting such a response - thought I'd leave it for a few days and maybe get 5-10 replies!

As for Nvidia vs AMD, I was kind of going for Nvidea because it's what I've always used, but I'm not rabidly anti-AMD. If there's that much of a performance difference, I'll certainly consider otherwise.
I (evidently naively) assumed that both brands would be broadly the same value for money, but another thread challenged those assumptions somewhat - hence this one.

Give me a few hours to get home and digest everything that's already been said, and I'll get back to you later!

The answer is NOT therefore a 660TI, it is open for debate. I thought I would leave the argument alone till the OP came back. You dictated that the OP only wanted Nvidia and as you can clearly see, you are wrong.

The 660TI is a decent but over priced card however out of these 2:

YOUR BASKET
1 x HIS HD 7950 IceQ BOOST 3072MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card (H795QC3G2M) with FREE FARCRY3, Hitman Absolution, Sleeping Dogs & 20% off MOH Warfighter PC Games £239.99
1 x ASUS GeForce GTX 660TI Direct CU II 2048MB GDDR5 PCI-Express Graphics Card with FREE Borderlands 2 & Assassin's Creed III PC Games £239.99
Total : £491.38 (includes shipping : £9.50).



Common sense would say to get the 7950 which is superior to the 660TI all the way.

 

[SkodaMart]

You're not being sensible about it now though based on posts you've made with regards to it.

The card was poor, nothing more to say.

That's what I was getting at, you're asserting that "NVidia fixed it" when in actuality, another non-MSI Twin Frozr fixed the issue.

I went back to what I know works (mostly perfectly), I really didn't fancy another dabble in the Red camp, thank you very much.

Well that's kinda what I was getting, the performance was erratic for me too. The reason why I said you weren't being sensible is because you chose it as an opportunity to claim that you've had an AMD issue when it was an MSI issue.

How the hell did I know at the time that the problem was with MSi rather than ATi?

Assuming I had sent the card back and a fault was found, a replacement MSi card would have been sent, you have said yourself that you have had 2 bad cards!
Sorry pal, too much messing about for me

As I asked, if you had issues with an nVidia card, would you blame nVidia, or would you be sensible about it?

And I replied to your question.

Your gut feeling wasn't correct, you have claimed something along the lines of "Going for an AMD card will give me trouble" which while technically correct, is a misleading way of saying it. You've had a bad card from a bad batch made by MSI and that's all there is to it, the only reason AMD is a factor is because they are cards MSI has made with AMD parts.

The card I chose was a dud, many of them as it turns out have been dud!

My gut feeling couldn't have been more bang on!

what seems to be over the top defending of your GTX660Ti that comes with it.

Yes the GTX 660 Ti is a great card, it runs everything well I throw at it.

I heartly recommended one to OP

 

[Rusty0611]

A lot of purchase justification going on with you SkodaMart.

You could do what you like with a DSR return - buy an MSI one or buy a different brands one. By recommending a 660Ti when there's a vastly superior card for the same money is just stupid though. It doesn't matter that it handles everything you play OK at 1080p (which by the looks of it isn't all that much); what matters is that people buying may play more than what you play and the 660Ti is a poor option.

As I have said: the argument that you should buy a weaker card because it's OK and you won't notice the difference is inherently flawed.

Priced competitively against a 7870 the 660Ti could fly off the shelves. However, priced against a 7950 means that its only recommendations are going to come from 660Ti owners who in a moment of madness thought it would be a good idea to buy a 660Ti over the vastly superior 7950. i.e. pretty much you on the whole forums.

Your logic of blaming AMD for your failed card is also completely wrong and shouldn't be confused when recommending because you're giving out bad advice. It would be like blaming EVGA if you had a 660Ti which suffered from the stuttering bug. Other side of the coin but the same thing.

 

[spoffle]

The card was poor, nothing more to say.

I don't think anyone is disputing that.

I went back to what I know works (mostly perfectly), I really didn't fancy another dabble in the Red camp, thank you very much.

That's not what I've suggested, I'm pointing out your faulty reasoning.

How the hell did I know at the time that the problem was with MSi rather than ATi?

Why even assume either? As I've said, if you'd got an nVidia card, would you have gone "OH LAWD NVIDIA SO BAD THEY ALWAYS BROKE"?

Assuming I had sent the card back and a fault was found, a replacement MSi card would have been sent, you have said yourself that you have had 2 bad cards!
Sorry pal, too much messing about for me

I bought two at once, not bought one, got a replacement that was bad, then swapped to another brand. Even still, there's no reason make assumptions that it's just what AMD cards do, that's just silly.

And I replied to your question.

If you say so.

The card I chose was a dud, many of them as it turns out have been dud!

Many MSI cards, yeah, but that's where it ends.

My gut feeling couldn't have been more bang on!

Your "gut feeling" wasn't bang on, that's the point. It wasn't an AMD card issue, it was an MSI card issue. That's why I'm saying you're no being sensible about it because you keep insisting that. The fact that changing to any other card that isn't a Twin Frozr 3 would have solved the issue just shows that your "gut feeling" is incorrect.

Yes the GTX 660 Ti is a great card, it runs everything well I throw at it.

Everyone is in agreement that on its own merit there's nothing wrong with a 660Ti, but when price is taken in to consideration it makes no sense to buy one (you even keep saying you feel like the only person who has one, you must be aware of why, right?).

I heartly recommended one to OP

Which is what others have commented on. There's no reason really to get a 660Ti, they are over-priced for their performance.

 

[Gregster]

Priced competitively against a 7870 the 660Ti could fly off the shelves. However, priced against a 7950 means that its only recommendations are going to come from 660Ti owners who in a moment of madness thought it would be a good idea to buy a 660Ti over the vastly superior 7950. i.e. pretty much you on the whole forums.

Agree 100% with this.

 

[SkodaMart]

@Rusty, forewarned is forearmed.
We have enough people singing the praises of the HD 79** series on these forums.
You and others have given him enough information to make a sensible purchase, and if I was reading what the vast majority of people on these forums are saying I would have a HIS HD 7950 in my basket.

I am merely trying to point out that the GTX 660 Ti isn't as bad some folk are trying to make it out to be.

As for games, I have been playing Borderlands 2 (came with card), The Witcher 2, WoT and I have just bought Batman in the Steam sale.

All are demanding games (maybe with the exception of WoT) and the card works well at 1080p

 

[Rusty0611]

I think you're still (probably purposefully as there is no answer) ignoring the point being made.

i.e. this:

I am merely trying to point out that the GTX 660 Ti isn't as bad some folk are trying to make it out to be.

No-one has ever said the 660Ti is a bad card on its own and anyone saying so is open to the same kind of criticism you're facing.

But at the same price point and compared to a 7950 it is bad comparatively.

 

[spoffle]

@Rusty, forewarned is forearmed.
We have enough people singing the praises of the HD 79** series on these forums.
You and others have given him enough information to make a sensible purchase, and if I was reading what the vast majority of people on these forums are saying I would have a HIS HD 7950 in my basket.

I am merely trying to point out that the GTX 660 Ti isn't as bad some folk are trying to make it out to be.

As for games, I have been playing Borderlands 2 (came with card), The Witcher 2, WoT and I have just bought Batman in the Steam sale.

All are demanding games (maybe with the exception of WoT) and the card works well at 1080p

No one is questioning its performance or ability in games, so why do you keep going on about it?

No one is saying it's bad, so again, why do you keep suggesting people are saying that it's bad?

It's completely and utterly irrelevant what games you've been playing because no one's talking about that. The bottom line is that the 660Ti doesn't give enough performance to justify its price point (being right next to the 7950 and more) that's all it is.

The very same way that I don't believe a GTX670, 7970, GTX680 or GTX690 gives the performance to justify their prices points either, it doesn't mean I'm saying the cards are crap, just they aren't worth their price relative to a 7950.

Also, forewarned about what exactly? It's like you're trying to drop the hint that if he buys a 7950 he might have issues because it's a 7950. If he gets a 660Ti there's every chance he could end up with a dud one too, it just happens, I think it's time you get over the fact that you've had a dud graphics card.

 

[SkodaMart]

@spoffle, isn't in game performance the entire point of a graphics card?

The GTX 660Ti performs perfectly well at 1080p full stop

I wouldn't see any benefit other than in benchmarks - and even then I would have to overclock the HD 7950 to see a significant advantage.

As for forewarned is forearmed, the OP can make a choice on graphics cards and wisely omit the MSi HD 7950 from his short list, however I do believe that some of the Sapphire cards have a similar fault.

 

[Rusty0611]

Also, forewarned about what exactly? It's like you're trying to drop the hint that if he buys a 7950 he might have issues because it's a 7950. If he gets a 660Ti there's every chance he could end up with a dud one too, it just happens, I think it's time you get over the fact that you've had a dud graphics card.

I ignored that bit because as you say I still think he doesn't see it was an MSI problem not an AMD problem even though the forums are full of people saying so .

There's only so many ways you can explain the same point before you realise the blinkers are on.

@spoffle, isn't in game performance the entire point of a graphics card?

The GTX 660Ti performs perfectly well at 1080p full stop

I would see any benefit other than in benchmarks - and even then I would have to overclock the HD 7950 so see an advantage.

As for forewarned is forearmed, the OP can make a choice on graphics cards and wisely omit the MSi HD 7950 from his short list, however I do believe that the Sapphire cards have a similar fault.

Reposted again...

As I have said: the argument that you should buy a weaker card because it's OK and you won't notice the difference is inherently flawed.

 

[SkodaMart]

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Catalyst_12.11_Performance/23.html

Where is the significant advantage with the HD 7950? (considering that they were exactly the same price when I bought mine?)

Or do I have to keep sending my HD 7950 back until I find one that stays cool under crazy overclocks?