New house wiring - Broadband and CCTV

A G

A G

A G

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10 Jan 2021
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71
Hi All,

Going through a full refurb of my house.
Even though I have not moved in, it appears for the electrician to know where the phone line will be installed by which ever broadband provider I go with, I need to take out a BB service, so he can run my Cat 6 cables from the various rooms I want them in.
I am expecting BT, Virgin, or whoever it is to be ok to install my phone line port underneath the staircase, would that be an issue?
But more importantly is it ok for my router to be kept there, I currently have all my electric and gas switch and meters for gas and electric already there, would there be any interference form these ?
Do I have to take out a phone line to get broadband, I have check and FTTP is not available in my area.

Separately I want to get the house wired up for CCTV... (not sure if the correct site to ask about CCTV, any advice around which ones are best would be good, been told Hikvision 4k are supposed to be good) but would the box for the CCTV or anything else interfere with my wireless signal from the router?

Any help would be highly appreciated.

Thanks
 
Assuming full refurb, no issue with that location you will need to ensure there is a suitable power provision.

I would recommend getting a 9U or so wall rack (make sure you go 600mm) to house equipment and terminate all cables to a patch panel.

If I'm honest the average electrician probably isn't who you should be using but you will struggle to get network guys in to work in a domestic environment.

Provision for Wi-Fi too, recommend Ubiquiti Access Points, you will want all cables to emanate from the understairs cupboard, recommend minimum of 2x Cat5e or Cat6 to be installed to each room.

Camera wise I'd recommend Dahua but I would recommend getting them in now and say that you'll run the cables but get them to survey positions. Would recommend full colour cameras.

To be boring, you should be installing Euroclass Cca or above cabling as per BS 6701, your electrician is probably pulling in PVC or standard LSZH though as they ignore everything that isn't written into BS 6761 Wiring Regulations that they don't understand :p

Google "CPR what does it mean data cabling" for an explanation on the bottom, can't link I'm afraid :)
 
It’s not really important where the phone line comes in so long as it’s near one of the new network sockets. The phone line to the router will use 2 pairs of the available 4 pairs and you can plug a standard RJ45 cable into every Openreach box made in the last few years all you do is get the Openreach engineer to put the phone connection next to a network socket and then that network socket goes back to your patch panel where you use a RJ45 to RJ11 cable to plug your ISP router or modem in. From there you can connect to a switch and back into your patch panel for your drops around the house.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00B9G40QE
 
Hikvision good, Hikvision 4K not so much, have a look at the CCTV thread. Install under stairs OK as long as it’s safe to access/drill into (consider gas pipes/cables etc) and either a large enough space for air to circulate, or some form of ventilation, no issues with causing interference etc. but you will need power sockets available for router etc. With Virgin you don’t need a phone line, but it’s usually cheaper to get a bundle than the same speed as a stand-alone service, the logic is you make the numbers look better and they can throw more discount against a multi RGU install vs a solus, they hope you will just keep paying after your initial discount ends. Other Openreach resellers are now doing a broadband only service, but again it’s rarely much different in price.
 
A G said:
Separately I want to get the house wired up for CCTV... (not sure if the correct site to ask about CCTV, any advice around which ones are best would be good, been told Hikvision 4k are supposed to be good) but would the box for the CCTV or anything else interfere with my wireless signal from the router?
Click to expand...

For surveillance cameras there are different brands and capabilities at different prices. For domestic purposes the better equipment will be too expensive and I would suggest you invest in infrastructure now and cameras once your house build is nearly complete. You should get someone in who can do a site survey for you, then your cable installer can run the cables to the locations and you can have the cameras installed later on. If you want a properly neat job, then the best time to run cables is when the walls are open before final boarding/plastering.

CAT5e cable is more than adequate for surveillance cameras. Almost all of them have 100Mbps interfaces because a high frame rate 4K image is only going to use 20-30Mbps of bandwidth so you don't need CAT6 or CAT6a for the cameras.

A decent camera integrator will do a survey of the site and ask you a few pertinent questions. They should also be prepared to leave you with a demo setup to see how the different cameras compare under different conditions. They'll count up how many cameras you want and should specify a big enough hard disk (or disks) in the recorder to record for as long as you need. While the ICO regulations don't usually apply to domestic dwellings, they do offer some good advice about how long you should be recording for. That should be about the longest time you'll leave the system unattended plus two weeks. That gives you time to find an issue when you come home and review the images. 4-5 weeks is usually about right. The recorder will work on cabled networking and they're fully shielded so they won't interfere with your other networking equipment.

From a user point of view most people want two things;

An alert when something happens (usually a person or car moving into or through the image)
The ability to be able to identify people and cars at night. That means you really want to be able to see peoples faces and read car registrations at night.

For conventional surveillance cameras night vision is black and white illuminated by Infra-Red LEDS that you can't see, but the cameras can. The two downsides of Infra Red illumination are that you can't see colours and they tend to white out reflective surfaces so faces become white blobs and car number plates are just illegible white oblongs. So, as suggested by @Hyburnate you probably should be looking at colour night vision cameras. These either use the ambient street lighting (best option) or direct warm white LED illumination to light up the scene and you get a full colour night image. And they can be superb. If you see the full colour cameras next to the IR cameras then you'll never use an IR camera again.

Hikvision are the world's largest IP camera manufacturers and they make a truly vast range of cameras from the truly excellent to the truly awful. Make sure you see the cameras at night before you sign the order or pay the bill. 4K sounds great for bragging rights down the pub but in reality the sensors are very small and not very good in low light so in use, 2MP or 5MP full colour night vision cameras tend to be better. Hikvision call these cameras ColorVu and they are currently available as 4MP I think and they work fine. At the moment, Dahua (the world's second largest manufacturer of IP cameras and the world's largest manufacturer of Analogue cameras) has a slight edge over Hikvision with their colour night vision cameras which are called either Full-Color (no LED illuminator) or TiOC (Three in One Camera with LED illuminator). They are available in 2MP (1080P), 5MP and 8MP (4K) versions and I wouldn't recommend the 8MP unless you really felt you needed the digital zoom capability. They just don't see as well at night as the 5MP and the 2MP is better again because the imaging 'dots' on the sensor are so much bigger and the aperture can be greater in the lower resolution cameras.

The colour night vision cameras also have the (dis)advantage that they use visible light so your house will have night-lights on all night. Some people like this, some people don't because of light pollution.
 
This is amazing, sorry for the late response, I will look into Hikvision and Dahua CCTV kits...
There is quiet a bit of info you have given so thank you very much, I will take on board what you have said.
I'm running Cat6 in the house, so makes sense to get Cat6 cables run for the cameras.
I probably need to get the wiring done as the builder is moving fast, so dont want to lose out and then I will need to purchase the CCTV system later
 
bledd said:
Hikvision cameras with Synology as the server for them. No point getting a DVR.
Click to expand...

That can get really pricey. If you buy a bog-standard Synology NVR it’s £200-ish plus the disks and you get 2 camera licences. If you buy the NVR-1218 that gets 4 camera licences for £225-ish plus the disks and then the extra camera licences are £50 each. And that assumes you have a suitable PoE switch to power whatever cameras you buy. Compare that to an 8-camera NVR from Dahua or Hikvision and it’s £300 including 4Tb of surveillance drives.

And then on the lesser Synology units they’ll be using 20-40% of their available bandwidth on the surveillance cameras which makes for slow file transfers if you want to use it for file and picture storage. So it’s hard to make a case for them on a value for money basis.

Sadly Synology and QNAP seem to have taken their own advertising too literally when it comes to their pricing. Now, if you want to talk about the QNAP QGD-1600P then I’ll say yes, that’s a better value proposition altogether. 16 port high speed PoE switch, two bay NAS, a decently powerful CPU and the ability to run pfSense and Ubiquiti UniFi Controller simultaneously in containers PLUS 8 surveillance station licences and I’m pretty much sold. £700+ disks though.
 
How much should I be looking to pay for a DVR and 6 cameras? as @Capodecina you mentioned 8 camera NVR with a 4Tb drive for 300 ish? does that include the DVR?
I'm now planning on putting the DVR under the stairs, and the BB router on the 1st floor.
I presume, all I need is 1 cat 6 cable running from the DVR to the router?
The cameras I read are just powered by a cat6? so they just need to run to the DVR box and thats it, I'd rather do the setting up myself, used to work in IT 10 years ago, so I should be able to work things out if thats the normal set up. i.e. cat 6 for the cameras to the DVR and the DVR connected via a cat 6 to the router?

Apologies if i'm completely off?
 
1 Dahua 5MP TiOC camera is £140-ish so 6 would be £840 plus £120 for (optional) mounting brackets and a reasonable NVR would be something from Dahua's 4 or 5-series - DHI-NVR-4208-8P-4KS2 Lite would be £185 plus the hard drives. Say you put in 1 4Tb WD Purple at £95 that's £280 so for all the hardware you're looking at something in the region of £1240 and then you'd need a single cable run to each camera and a single cable run from the router to the NVR.

Pricing it up as a Synology unit starting with an NVR-1218 would be £225 for the NVR itself, £95 for the hard drive, and £100 for the two additional Surveillance Station Licences. That's £420 and you'd still need an 8-port Gigabit PoE switch which would be another £60 if you went for a 10/100 PoE switch for the cameras with Gigabit uplink to the NVR eg. Dahua PFS3010-8ET-96. So it would be about £200 more than if you used a dedicated NVR.

And obviously you can add or subtract a couple of hundred pounds if you go for cheaper or more expensive cameras.

If you have any trouble finding suppliers try BroadBandBuyer or send me a Trust message.
 
WJA96 said:
1 Dahua 5MP TiOC camera is £140-ish so 6 would be £840 plus £120 for (optional) mounting brackets and a reasonable NVR would be something from Dahua's 4 or 5-series - DHI-NVR-4208-8P-4KS2 Lite would be £185 plus the hard drives. Say you put in 1 4Tb WD Purple at £95 that's £280 so for all the hardware you're looking at something in the region of £1240 and then you'd need a single cable run to each camera and a single cable run from the router to the NVR.

Pricing it up as a Synology unit starting with an NVR-1218 would be £225 for the NVR itself, £95 for the hard drive, and £100 for the two additional Surveillance Station Licences. That's £420 and you'd still need an 8-port Gigabit PoE switch which would be another £60 if you went for a 10/100 PoE switch for the cameras with Gigabit uplink to the NVR eg. Dahua PFS3010-8ET-96. So it would be about £200 more than if you used a dedicated NVR.

And obviously you can add or subtract a couple of hundred pounds if you go for cheaper or more expensive cameras.

If you have any trouble finding suppliers try BroadBandBuyer or send me a Trust message.
Click to expand...


I assume this is a fake or not anywhere near as good as what you have stated in your message:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dahua-EZ-I...326159&sprefix=dahua+cctv,aps,223&sr=8-5&th=1
 
No, I'd say that was real. The main issue with that recorder is it has no smart functions built-in and it's only 1080P output - most of the newer ones (with 4K in the name) output to the HDMI port in 4K.

That's a pretty old device.

The cheapest 16 port PoE NVR that my distributor has listed is the one linked below and that's £432+VAT with a 6Tb Seagate Seahawk surveillance hard disk.

16 CHANNEL 4K POE NVR (cop-eu.com)

There is no mention of what type of HDD is in that recorder, so it could just be a standard desktop hard drive.

The seller there, ICCTV in Manchester, is actually a Hikvision reseller, and aren't authorised Dahua resellers so it is probably a Chinese import unit.

If you don't need 16 PoE ports, go for an 8-port. It has a power supply half the size and it won’t cost so much to run.
 
Hi

Sorry I need some advice please and sorry for the delay in coming back
My writing is taking place
I'm running my 8 cat 6 camera cables to the loft where I intend to put the NVR, but what do I need running from the NVR to the TV room ?
I've got other cat 6 cables going to my router from different rooms around the house which will go into a hub and that will connect to my router
But I'm unsure what else I need to get the wiring correct to be able to view the images on TV?

All the other room cat 6 cables are running to the hub sitting under the stairs where the roter will be too

Thanks
 
A G said:
Hi

Sorry I need some advice please and sorry for the delay in coming back
My writing is taking place
I'm running my 8 cat 6 camera cables to the loft where I intend to put the NVR, but what do I need running from the NVR to the TV room ?
I've got other cat 6 cables going to my router from different rooms around the house which will go into a hub and that will connect to my router
But I'm unsure what else I need to get the wiring correct to be able to view the images on TV?

All the other room cat 6 cables are running to the hub sitting under the stairs where the roter will be too

Thanks
Click to expand...

The simplest way to do this is simply access the NVR on a web browser on the TV.

What I use is a viewing box which is basically a stripped out NVR without the PoE ports or any HDD. Then you just tell the viewing box to find all the cameras on the network, add the camera passwords and plug the HDMI port from the viewing box into the TV.

This unit will display up to 16 cameras and costs about £72 delivered.

16CH 4K DISPLAY MONITOR INTERFACE (cop-eu.com)

So, to answer your question - either you can use the CAT6 cable going into the TV or use a separate CAT6 cable to feed a viewing box.
 
Thanks
So long as I have a CAT6 port goin into to my TV and all my CAT6 ports connected to the hub... I will be able to access all images via the NVR on the TV without the need to have an additional viewing box?
Will I not need a HDMI cable or similar to run from the NVR to the TV directly to view the images?
 
No, when you log into the NVR using it’s IP address you will get all the NVR options on screen to view etc. It’s a bit clunky on a TV, hence the popularity of the viewing boxes where you can plug in a mouse and then just select the HMDI input on the TV and control the camera feeds directly.

You can run an HDMI cable but how do you control the NVR from the TV?
 
Hmm, I take it you cannot control the NVR and mouse cursor, via the CAT6 which is all connected via a switch?

What would one do if they did not invest in a viewing box, how would you control the NVR is it did not have a monitor connected to it directly?
 
A G said:
Hmm, I take it you cannot control the NVR and mouse cursor, via the CAT6 which is all connected via a switch?

What would one do if they did not invest in a viewing box, how would you control the NVR is it did not have a monitor connected to it directly?
Click to expand...

The monitor (and HDMI) only carry sound and video. Depending on how far you are from the NVR a Logitech wireless mouse might let you control it. If you have a mouse plugged into your TV, and your TV web browser supports that mouse, then it will work fine. You need to think of the NVR as a remote PC. Plugging an HDMI monitor into it lets you see the screen but unless you have a mouse and keyboard connected you’ll not get very far using it.
 
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