New Mac Pro Due Tomorrow :) well Today

I had that 2 years ago, and last year with a new Baby :)

I'm hooked, its a great bit of kit and does everything I want. The Mini took about a week to convert me to MAC OS X...Just need to flog my entire PC and all its bits and the spare etc.

This might cost me more to start with but in the medium term it'll save me money as I'll stop buying tons of PC bits and then changing them and then changing again etc etc
 
Its a pitty a mac is just a pc with OSX installed on it :CRYS: , thats how apple mac money, OSX is just freeBSD with a fancy front end, mac hardware is pc's in posh boxes.

Since the late 1980's apple hasnt done anything innovative what so ever, they ARE however masters of marketing and fashion and user interfaces, I wonder how much 2 quad cores and mainboard is seperatly for a pc.
 
Its a pitty a mac is just a pc with OSX installed on it :CRYS: , thats how apple mac money, OSX is just freeBSD with a fancy front end, mac hardware is pc's in posh boxes.

Since the late 1980's apple hasnt done anything innovative what so ever, they ARE however masters of marketing and fashion and user interfaces, I wonder how much 2 quad cores and mainboard is seperatly for a pc.

To quote a certain Edward Hitler "Your talking ******"
 
lol no really its true ! so true infact I was talking about this with my masters computing tutor today - hes a mac 'fan' and uses them 99% of the time and he has programmed PC's/Macs/software since 1981,

It really is true, and he totally agreed with me, dont just JUMP NO the bandwagon, THINK ABOUT THE FACTS, i know your all mac fanboys ;) :p, hehe, but lets quickly analyse my statement.

Mac - executes x86 code, power pc or intel - as does a pc, so ergo its a x86 computer
OSX - custom UNIX/LINUX distro - FACT

Apple did make the 1st graphical interfaces, qwerty keyboards, mouse as we know it today - early on they WERE inovators FACT - after some time though when we got more mainstream macs they switched took GLA agreement unix/linux distros, who blames them there a good system but its factually true.

THey thought, ok anyone and everyone can now make and order pc's, we'll make our own 'brand' of PC's, highly desirable machines with a target audiance, they want to take a minimilistic/maximum productivity route, thats design and marketting, and they are damn good at it. And thats WHY they have there own OS as well, they want total control of it and all the $$$$ that comes with that, as well as all the user benefits, its an old story that bill gates wanted to develop for apple, but apple said they wanted to do it themselves so they could 'package' it all together (something like that, ill find the exact story for you)

It goes for all there other products......and its what apple do best, take an existing product and make it desirable while innovating on user interfaces...

ipod - its an mp3 player, TONS of mp3 players were out before ipod, they have just made it fashionable and stuck a nice user interface on it - marketing and design again.

iphone - its a phone and an ipod, but phones and ipods were out before it.


SO YES I stand by my statement, they have NOT made anything NEW they HAVE taken products and ideas already out there and made them there own, and done a damn good job of it........innovation is where id be highly intruiged as to what apple would do, slogan and j1nxy if you know ANYTHING about computers and software these facts you cannot deny
 
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combat, they innovated on several products that were out there. If you're saying the iPod was just another mp3 player then you're talking from the wrong end. It completely changed the way people thought about music on the go and the market share they have swallowed up over the entire market (not just thick walleted lazy computer wanters) goes a long way to show that.

Do people buy an iPod for image and because it's 'fashionable'? Of course they do. Why? Because Apple have made the product that way. Their advertising and marketing is genius - but for all the money Microsoft have threw at the Zune, it's still basically unheard of. Ask Joe-public in the street to name an mp3 player - I doubt most of them have even heard of the Zune. Brown casing didn't help.

The integration between iTunes and iPod is something that is often taken for granted. It is seamless and I honestly don't think anyone would have been able to set the standard they have there. I used a few mp3 players before getting an iPod and anything before it didn't come close - either software on the computer or the player itself. Just in a totally different uncomplicated league.

Monopoly people will say, but Apple tie their software and hardware down for a reason - so they can make it work as best they can.

I don't have any big problem with Windows like most 'Mac users' supposedly have. I recently bought a PC and custom built it for around £1500. Two weeks into having it, I didn't like it. Games weren't working, I didn't feel like the operating system was personal (didn't load my pictures, music, videos into their appropriate folders), the heat from the machine turned my room into a sauna, it was noisy and so on.

I'm saving for a Mac Pro which I know will be quiet, cool, work out of the box and in OS X I will be able to run everything I want to - Windows included if need be.

Is a Mac Pro an expensive purchase? Yes.
Could you build a better PC for the money? Possibly.

Microsoft have always had a momentous task on with Windows and it's ever-growing. Gates has done an excellent job in getting Windows on most OEM machines but in selling Windows separately to the home user - Microsoft have always had to think of solutions to hardware configurations to the nth degree.

When they run out of them or the drivers aren't kept up to date - problems arise. Blue-screens and lock ups interrupt the user experience. The solutions to the problems are beautifully cryptic as well.

User experience is something Apple have worked hard on. Plug a printer into your Mac and it will most likely recognize it and work straight away.

Put a digital camera into your Mac and iPhoto will start running your photos onto the computer should you wish.

Neither of these require putting a disc in and running driver setups, loading (what is) crappy software or having to go through the camera in 'computer' to access the files that way - also having to worry whether the drivers are out-dated or going to the manufacturers website to double-check just incase you install an old set just isn't something you have to bother yourself with.

Vista improved the hardware side of this with Windows Update. I was very impressed when running Windows Update on an old machine that it picked up all the gfx, sound, motherboard etc.. drivers and installed them without a hitch - I thought I was in for a night of looking for ancient drivers that probably wouldn't work.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that Apple's business model will prevail as time goes on. Whether it will be with Apple or not, who knows, but they're certainly on the right path if you ask me.

More and more people are 'switching' and it's a lot more evident than just wishful thinking. Small numbers for now but eventually they will add up.

Google's supposed plans of having an 'online' operating system just spell even more danger for Windows. Accessing an operating system that is fully maintained and managed is what people want - they don't want the hassle of anything other than flawless - or what seems to be.

I'm not saying that OS X is flawless - by no means it isn't and I've my runins with it now and again. Usually on crappy old E-Macs in school that were trying to run Mac-Pro worthy applications.

The first time you turn on a Mac machine and a Windows machine are two completely different experiences. One is being annoyed for activation and serial keys (if non-OEM obviously), creating an account with a name and crap selection of images, getting into Windows and sorting the rest yourself.

OS X gives you a lovely little welcome video (hello in a few languages) and takes you through a step by step process on setting your computer up. Your name and details, a personalized user account picture option, setting up your bluetooth mice and keyboard and also your wireless network if you have one. If you follow the steps with any sort of success rate, the first time you boot into OS X, you can use it right away. You can start editing video, you can start chatting to friends, you can be surfing the web.

I sound like an Apple advertisement towards the end of that paragraph but it's just stupidly true. 'Out of the box' is something that people love. People who buy Dell machines with Windows on are (I would estimate) the majority of the market. With little things like people asking Dell to put Linux on some of their machines and demanding that XP be made an option instead of Vista - people are eventually getting fed up.

I would be concerned if I was Microsoft. Whilst at this moment in time they have money coming out of their ears and an obviously very strong potential income - they really need to up their game.

I don't know how they're going to do that, I just don't. They can't support masses of hardware configurations brilliantly because a lot of it is beyond their control (3rd party drivers or lack thereof ruined Vista's launch, for example).

The user experience in Windows for me is always a bit empty. OS X may not be perfect but it has things that make it feel personal to people - the login steps you go through at the start are an example of something that Microsoft could easily do but didn't bother. The dock is more personal than a start bar with quick launch icons in it - you only have to see the popularity of something like StarDock to prove that. And that just continues.

I never backed up my Windows machine. Didn't know how to, didn't want to buy Ghost or any other useful software program to back up - it was always just that bit beyond sense for me to do that. Looking back that's stupid as I have a lot of important stuff on my computer.

Time Machine comes along. Plugged in my hard drive, it asked if I wanted that to be my Time Machine disk, I hit yes, it did one long back up and that was it - and ticked over every hour. All my work backed up every hour with the most I have to do is plug a usb socket into a port if it wasn't already connected. Why isn't it just that simple in Windows? It really should be.

Microsoft rarely come up with something that either hasn't been done or that is done well enough that it's an excellent feature. Their instant search version of Spotlight was excellent - I honestly thought having the search there and the results appearing in your start bar was very clever - but it was already done.

It was Microsoft who made a tiny innovation (specific to their os) on an already huge innovation that was a huge plus point for OS X.

Widgets and gadgets go without saying - sidebar is a very good thing if you have a decent sized monitor - but it has already been done.

I'm not saying if something has already been done that it isn't good practice to include it in your product - but I can't think of very many things that I can say 'Ah Microsoft did an excellent job on that'.

The infamous video of the things that Microsoft used in Vista that OS X already had (such as the little arrows for drop-down folders, the 3d chess game with strangely familiar settings etc) just sums them up completely.

UAC? Disaster. Safe but to the point where it's devastatingly annoying and intrusive on the user experience.

Click open a downloaded .exe in Vista and it's a opacity-lessened screen that covers everything asking if you want to 'allow or deny'.

Click open a downloaded .dmg in Leopard and it's a simple popup box that says where you downloaded the file from and when and if you wish to proceed.

Just two completely different ways of approaching things. A video I used to watch with some contempt as a Windows user was the Steve Jobs one where he talks about Microsoft having no taste. But in review of everything the two companies have done, you would have to agree.

The talk that Microsoft copy stuff from Apple is what you'll hear cried in a lot of places, forums, messageboards, chatrooms, youtube comments. But it's just true.

If Microsoft could get their act together and give people reason to really get into their products and their operating system again then it would be a good thing for all people concerned. And prices. But I just don't see it happening.

People will only buy the imitation for so long.

Just to clear up, I realize what you were saying in regards to hardware. But Apple's innovation within their operating system has been happening for years and years and happens today - with every little tweak they make it seems to be getting better and better and sometimes, just sometimes the 'wows' at Apple keynotes are genuine and should be appreciated by all in the industry.
 
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EXACTLY what I was saying Apple are indeed marketting and user interface wizzards, I totally agree, with the marketing comes fashion.

You talked about windows an aweful lot there,and pretty much got it correct, although I think vista SP1 will be interesting, anyways windows wasnt really what my post was getting at, additionally my points were more at the base/code level.

Using the ipod again from your post as an example, it really was another mp3 player end of, just this time it was designed well with a great user interface, and some very clever marketing, obviously think of the 1st one here,not the ones available today, it applies more today from there origonal marketing as word has got around.

What my main interest in is, true innovation, the ipod, iphone, mac air are all truely awesome products, and more to the point stylish products, but there not new, and its base, there an mp3 player, phone and ultra portable notebook, just using the notebook I think toshibas laptop (will find model name) is factually the worlds thinest notebook, again its just apple marketting and design that makes u think otherwise, the way the advert plays and everything is just marketting A++++ at work.

What I wonder is, will they come up with something truely revolutionary ? something really new and unique in ideas - why ? They have taken ideas already out there and made them fan-smegging-tastic (genreally speaking; OSX I have many gripes with, but then I have to program for it :D, really its not that bad tbh, just still not used to it I guess)

So I wonder what would happen it they made something from the ground up ? Be interesting to see
 
To a certain extent I agree that apple do not innovate that much in terms of hardware, but in terms of OS and user interface (iphone is a perfect example) they are doing things that no-one has done before. Apple to me more show an ability of how to make a whole package that is just right, hardware and software that just works.
 
Combat, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the iPod front. Whilst I know what you're saying in regards to the fact there were mp3 players before it - the innovation for Apple was in their design of the product. And I say design for much more than just the physical look of the thing. Just the software inside it and how it managed media was brilliant - the user interface may be something you commented on as Apple being good at, but you simply can't mark it down as Apple just being good at marketing and user interface.

There is such a huge number of things in that last one (in my opinion) that I just don't think it can be summed up as that or in that little snippet. They're shaping the way products are being made with whatever they do. The Zune has an interface very similar to the iPod, it even has a little physical wheel in the design that doesn't scroll round. I'm not 100% sure but I think Apple have a patent on that. Why have a wheel that doesn't spin? Makes no sense.

Vista SP1 will probably sort a lot of things but it has taken over a year to potentially get a good working operating system. Leopard as I have complained about before wasn't perfect and many people were eagerly looking forward to 10.5.2 - but I have very few little problems with it.

The release was a success because it worked for a lot of people straight away and didn't kick up a fuss. Vista as I said caused Dell to offer an older operating system with its products on release - whether for business users or not, it wasn't very good press or a good representation of how much faith people put in Microsoft's new product.

You're wanting something from the ground up is a bit much to ask from this industry. Anything new will be relative to either one or several products previously made - not to mention it would be a business gamble to make a new device which catered for a new need - Microsoft have the money to develop anything they choose and the Surface technology they are developing looks absolutely great - but I can't help but imagine it would be better if Apple were using it. They just have a different psyche towards working with their products.

Windows will put down a platform that anybody can use but it's too rigid and dare I say it, 'business-like'. The inclusion of the games folder in Vista was their idea of breaking out of that but it still just feels like a spreadsheet wouldn't be far from the task bar. I just look at Windows as a bit of a 'passionless' product. Merely something to fill a gap and soak up dollars with very little heart put into it.

Now I may be wrong, Microsoft may try their best to put heart into their product but it just doesn't come across nearly enough. Apple do a far superior job in my opinion and it's reflected as soon as you boot into the OS.

I think Apple have had to work hard for a lot of people that they get on their platform, maybe not half as much in the last year or so because word of mouth has done a lot and yes, the fashionable element does come into play too, but they've had to work harder at the operating system to get customers from the big dog.

They've had to add tweaks and UI that maybe weren't necessary but looked great. They've added Time Machine so people can back up their stuff with such an incredible ease it has again been taken for granted - I just wasn't using my operating system the same way or as much as I find myself doing with OS X. And it's great to take advantage of features that nigh on work 9 times out of 10 without a hiccup. Maybe even a higher success rate than that.

I think the Microsoft business model for Windows is expiring. Take my word for it, if Apple tried to make an OS X in the way that Windows do, it would suck horribly. Without a doubt in my mind.

The money that has gone into Windows from the early days has made it a contender today, the main contender. That's a great feat but it's not the way things are going to be in the future.

Microsoft will honestly probably have the lions share of the market for the next 10-15 years. People know Windows, they don't like changing to new things and new experiences and it's easier to go down to the local shop to buy an OEM computer with Windows on it than it is to get your own box and run Linux or even get a Mac. Apple stores and their ways are helping to combat this but not outside the main cities.

My point is that the share they have on the market is lessening and the decision to choose OS X or even Linux for a lot of PC users is becoming more of a realistic option. It's sometimes not as clean cut as 'Windows' - even people running Windows boxes are putting on illegal versions of OS X that often run pretty horribly. But people would rather have a laggy OS X than Windows.

Games are holding a lot of people back from being non-Windows users - if people like EA can see the potential for gaming on different platforms they'll free a lot of tired minds and give people a choice. Whether they will or not is a different thing due to money enjoyment but Microsoft's pot can't last forever - especially when often throwing the money out of that pot doesn't create happy customers.

It's a difficult thing to look at. As somewhat of an enthusiast (I guess we all are if we exist on a board like this) maybe I can't see that Granny Rosa can check her email and browse a forest competitor every day on Vista without a single problem and would recommend her rig (:D) to the people down at the Bingo club. The same way Jane the mother of three can browse the bay for bargains and sell hand-made clothes on Vista without a problem.

I just think as soon as you want a bit more from that in Windows - it lets you down. Either by being passionlessly designed, useless or just not enjoyable to use for people who open and use a bit more than just Internet Explorer.

At the same time, Windows having the majority share lets Apple users feel a bit 'special'. It's strange but there's a nice feeling about being the underdog in this situation and I think Jobs knows and enjoys that. Very little viruses (I never say none), crap-ware designed for a different audience and software which is exclusive to the users. The fact that it can run Windows if need be is a huge feather in the hat too.

So if Microsoft want to continue being the dominant force it's fine by me - but Apple are gaining and will get enough of the market-share and create enough income via that to do bigger and better things. Things which both Apple and Windows users will enjoy such as the iPhone and iPod.
 
If people don't want to buy Apple products because of ethics / morale values then it doesn't bother me.

They come round when they use a Mac, and are the ones that end up feeling silly.

Not aiming this at you Combat, but merely coming from personal experience.. I blackball'd Macs for the same "overpriced, underspecced" criteria as you mentioned, but as soon as I used one for an extended period I saw the whole picture.

Apple is a software company, they make their money from selling the software, and to keep a control of the software they tie it to hardware.

Once you realise the brand is more than a "boutique" computer supplier, and look at what you get for the money in terms of build quality and ease of use then it fits in to place.

The Macintosh, the iPod & iTunes and possibly the iPhone are all great innovations, they've helped to change the perception of their relevant devices, and helped to boost competition amongst other competitors which is a good thing in my eyes :)
 
I know.

Just because you stuck some smilies at the end of the comment, doesn't take the meaning away.

It does, it really does, seriously mate if I said:

Your f-ing mac fanboys id mean it

If I said:

hey your mac fan boi's :D:p:)

Its a total joke..............whats worse *trys NOT to buy a mac*, :D I -maybe- thinking about it.......as long as it dual boots / boots other OS's :D
 
Not another OS X - Windows argument. Mind you, I start most of them. :p

I keep forgetting that we are heavily out numbered!
 
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