New Sabrant Rocket NVMe SSD in old motherboard

Guest2 · 15 May 2020 at 13:38

I recently purchased a Sabrant Rocket drive for increased sotorage for games. To my surprise, my (2015 dated) BIOS detected it showing 'Sabrant' and NVMe drive. I then cloned my Samsung EVO 850 SSD to it and it's working fine.

I knew the speeds would be lower than rated as my motherboard (Z97) only supports PCIe 2x. Future plans are to update to Ryzen 4000, just not yet.

Crystal Disk speeds

EVO 850

Sabrant Rocket

Is it worth me picking up something like a 'StarTech.com M2 PCIe SSD Adapter - x4 PCIe 3.0 NVMe' for £20?

Though it does say on my motherboard specs that it will reduce the PCIEX16 slot to operate at x8 mode instead of x16. I do not want this to reduce the speed my GPU can run at that's in the PCIEX16 slot

When the PCIEX4 slot is populated, the PCIEX16 slot will operate at up to x8 mode and the PCIEX8 will operate at up to x4 mode.

Motherboard - https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-Z97X-Gaming-7-rev-10/

FreeStream · 15 May 2020 at 15:27

Waste of money buying another adapter, leave it alone. You won't notice any difference and you can't stop the PCI-E lanes changing.

Guest2 · 15 May 2020 at 16:49

FreeStream said:
Waste of money buying another adapter, leave it alone. You won't notice any difference and you can't stop the PCI-E lanes changing.

Thanks.

Would it make any different with 4k sector size instead of 512bytes?

I downloaded a tool called Sabrent sector size convertor, in the manual it says

"Sabrent’s Sector Size Converter enables you to change the drive’s sector size, which is necessary under certain data cloning scenarios. It enables re-formatting of the Rocket drive with either a 512-byte or a 4096-byte sector.
Please note that this process destroys all the data on the drive being converted. Make sure to backup your data onto another drive before you begin this process."

Edit - if my motherboard advertises this, surely if the new drives support 10 Gb/s then they should work at that?

M.2 for SSDs drives with up to 10 Gb/s data transfer

Edit 2. Found a useful post on an MSI forum

Like on most Z97 boards the M.2 slot can't utilize cpu lanes on the Z97s SLI Krait but just the PCI-E 2.0 lanes from the chipset which leaves it with 2.0 x2 at max.

10 GB/s is the theoretical max with M.2 assuming it could run at 3.0 x4 what it doesn't on most Z97 boards. With 2.0 x2 transfer rates are just a little better than with SATA III.

While on SATA III 6.0 Gb/s (750 MB/s) are the theoretical max it is 8 Gb/s (1 GB/s) on M.2 with 2.0 x2. In reality mostly not more than 6.4 Gb/s (800 MB/s) are to be seen.

Guest2 · 18 May 2020 at 14:39

Update.

I purchased on of these 'kryoM.2 evo PCIe 3.0 x4 adapter for M.2 NGFF PCIe SSD'

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/aqua...-adapter-for-m.2-ngff-pcie-ssd-cc-003-aq.html

Drive speeds have increased by quite a lot.
One thing I don't understand it the RND4K Q32T16 speeds, they seem way higher that other screenshots of drives I have seen, including the EVO 970.

Write speed is higher than rated on the Sabrant Rocket specs too, not that im complaining...

pugheaven · 18 May 2020 at 17:18

Yep that's right, it'll be using PCIE3 which those speeds are correct I'm using an adaptor in the PCIE3 slot and it'll always just use only 4 lanes, it's how PCIE work mate, so those speeds are what I'd expect! They're matching mine through PCIE3 based on the fact that I've got the 5000mb read write version of the rocket and assuming you have the 3000mb/s version that is? Therefore my drives in a PCIR4 system will go to 5GB however are currently limited by PCI3 limitations!

And yeah, your RND4K Q32T16 speeds are amazing nice work so overall fella, I'd be made up with that you can see mine are a lot lower? Wonder if it's the size of the SSD that dictates this, mine are 2TB drives? What size are yours 1TB?

http://www.pugheaven.co.uk/benchs/Sabrent.jpg

Bubo · 18 May 2020 at 17:28

My eyes are drawn to that GPUz Bus Interface line, where it seems to confirm your RTX 2080Ti is running at x8 mode rather than x16. How many pcie lanes does your mobo and cpu combo have? I know that on my Asus x99 and i7-5820K at 28 PCIe lanes, which is a pretty old set up, I can jig the slots so that the GPU still gets 16 with the nvme ssd addon board, Hyper-X in my case, plugged into a slot. Had to go into the bios to do this. My manual says if you config the lanes this way then it disables the nvme slot on the mobo itself, may be worth looking into. I am a complete nvme ssd novice myself.

Guest2 · 18 May 2020 at 20:40

pugheaven said:
Yep that's right, it'll be using PCIE3 which those speeds are correct I'm using an adaptor in the PCIE3 slot and it'll always just use only 4 lanes, it's how PCIE work mate, so those speeds are what I'd expect! They're matching mine through PCIE3 based on the fact that I've got the 5000mb read write version of the rocket and assuming you have the 3000mb/s version that is? Therefore my drives in a PCIR4 system will go to 5GB however are currently limited by PCI3 limitations!

And yeah, your RND4K Q32T16 speeds are amazing nice work so overall fella, I'd be made up with that you can see mine are a lot lower? Wonder if it's the size of the SSD that dictates this, mine are 2TB drives? What size are yours 1TB?

http://www.pugheaven.co.uk/benchs/Sabrent.jpg

2TB also

Guest2 · 18 May 2020 at 20:45

Bubo said:
My eyes are drawn to that GPUz Bus Interface line, where it seems to confirm your RTX 2080Ti is running at x8 mode rather than x16. How many pcie lanes does your mobo and cpu combo have? I know that on my Asus x99 and i7-5820K at 28 PCIe lanes, which is a pretty old set up, I can jig the slots so that the GPU still gets 16 with the nvme ssd addon board, Hyper-X in my case, plugged into a slot. Had to go into the bios to do this. My manual says if you config the lanes this way then it disables the nvme slot on the mobo itself, may be worth looking into. I am a complete nvme ssd novice myself.

Yep, x8 also does impact fps in gaming quite a lot when using gsync & vsync.

I looked for a setting in bios so it doesn’t share the x16 pcie slot but cannot find one. The montherboard is a Gigabyte Z97X-Gaming 7.
It does say when using the x8 or x4 lane, the x16 lane will operate at only x8 speed.

Looks like i’ll have to return the adapter and use the Rocket at the slower speed

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/GA-Z97X-Gaming-7-rev-10/sp#sp

Edit.
If i can reconfigure the lanes to provide x16 to gpu and x4 to m2 adapter that would be fantastic.

In bios there is;

pcie slot configuration - 1,2,3,auto (on auto)
Dmi gen2 speed - auto, enabled, disabled. (On enabled)
Pcie slot configuration (cpu) - auto, x4 (on auto)

Thanks for the help guys

pugheaven · 18 May 2020 at 22:51

Does it give a bifurcation split... i.e. does it give something like this? Bear in mind, when using the adaptor cards I believe that they will only use 4 lanes NOT 16 lanes, but that's all you need to be hitting 3500mbs transfers... so this is my setup in the BIOS.

So right now,

IOU1 is my Sabrent Rocket on a PCIE3 card, even though it's set to 8x it'll be using 4x of those 8x lanes.
IOU2 is my 2nd Sabranet Rocket on a ASROCK 4x M2 card, so as it's the only card in that 4xM2 card I just left it at 16x as it doesn't matter. If I add more M2 cards in there, I'll need to change using the 3rd screen shot below.
IOU3 is my Radeon 5700XT at 16x...

The below is only possible on my X79 board do to my BIOS mod I'm running. You can see how it allows different configs within the 4x Card on the 3rd picture top right i.e. depending on how many cards you want to run. Once I run a 2nd one in that card I'll need to amend and will probably just go 4x4x4x4 allowing me four more cards.

So basically out the box, my PCIE3.0 maximums are, IOU3=16x, IOU2=16x and IOU1=8x maximums. I just assumed most boards had that kind of config, so two of the slots could run full 16x lanes for say SLI/Crossfire...?

Bubo · 18 May 2020 at 23:21

According to Google, the i7 4790K has 16 3.0 PCIe lanes, and the Z97 mobo has 8 PCIE 2.0 lanes. As far as my limited understanding of PCIe lanes goes, you will not be able to run the GPU at 16x with anything else plugged into another PCIe slot, as the CPU does not have any left for anything else if the GPU takes 16. Sounds like you are unfortunately limited to plugging the SSD in a mobo port and running it at PCIE 2.0, if you don't want to run the GPU at 8x. This is why I am ok with mine, because the CPU has 28 lanes, so 12 left over for other PCIe devices after the GPU takes its share.

Edit: In the post above, that CPU has 40 PCIE 3.0 lanes according to google again, so absolutely no problem plugging in pcie ssd cards, unless you were triple SLIing it as well or something. If you've been out of the loop for as long as I have, this PCIe lane robbing doodah with cards and cpu's takes some getting your head round. As I understand it your latest cpus and mobo literally throw pcie lanes at you so this is no longer a problem, I think. Took me several reads of my mobo manual to understand that it doesn't matter how many pcie slots your mobo has, it depends on how many lanes the cpu can support, 3.0 lanes this is, it all comes from this cpu pool.

Guest2 · 19 May 2020 at 08:36

Thanks both, very informative.
Does anyone know what PLX chips are?

It guess it (unfortunately) boils down to the Z97 architecture which is now quite old. It seems its not just me looking for answers to this by means of custom bios or whatever else

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...stand-these-pci-e-lanes-on-this-board.209603/

"Just to help clarify a little bit. The Z97 platform only has 16 PCI-E 3.0 lanes wired to the CPU. It has an additional 8 PCI-E 2.0 lanes wired to the Z97 chipset itself."

"They [chipset lanes] are used for extra features on the board. Extra SATA controllers, extra network controllers, SATA Express ports, M.2 Slots, etc. As well as the extra PCI-E x1 slots. Those lanes are plenty fast enough for storage and everything except graphics really."

I dont use half the stuff on my board, no sound, gpu, lan, sata express etc. I actually only have a PS2 keyboard, mouse in USB and Wifi adapter in USB

The downside of this means I would need a new motherboard, cpu, ram and soundcard to get full SSD drive speed. The soundcard I have (Xonar Essence ST - PCI) is from 11 odd years ago, when I had it in a motherboard that didnt even have PCIE slots. This drives my headphones and alone cost around £250

pugheaven · 19 May 2020 at 10:59

Bubo said:
According to Google, the i7 4790K has 16 3.0 PCIe lanes, and the Z97 mobo has 8 PCIE 2.0 lanes. As far as my limited understanding of PCIe lanes goes, you will not be able to run the GPU at 16x with anything else plugged into another PCIe slot, as the CPU does not have any left for anything else if the GPU takes 16. Sounds like you are unfortunately limited to plugging the SSD in a mobo port and running it at PCIE 2.0, if you don't want to run the GPU at 8x. This is why I am ok with mine, because the CPU has 28 lanes, so 12 left over for other PCIe devices after the GPU takes its share.

Edit: In the post above, that CPU has 40 PCIE 3.0 lanes according to google again, so absolutely no problem plugging in pcie ssd cards, unless you were triple SLIing it as well or something. If you've been out of the loop for as long as I have, this PCIe lane robbing doodah with cards and cpu's takes some getting your head round. As I understand it your latest cpus and mobo literally throw pcie lanes at you so this is no longer a problem, I think. Took me several reads of my mobo manual to understand that it doesn't matter how many pcie slots your mobo has, it depends on how many lanes the cpu can support, 3.0 lanes this is, it all comes from this cpu pool.

Very good spot mate, yeah I didn't even look at the CPU and forgot about the lane allocation of certain CPU;'s so nice one as was scratching head on this for GUEST last night and couldn't figure out why, that PCIE3 slot at 8x should've been the indicator. So, really it's part CPU and part Mobo really, I got really lucky with the X79 as it's ancient YET still keeps on coming up with the goods.

@Guest2 - TBH mate, I'd be surprised how much going 8x to 16x really does actually make difference, will read around but it is what it is, at least youv'e fgot that rocket flying along mate.

Guest2 · 19 May 2020 at 11:52

pugheaven said:
Very good spot mate, yeah I didn't even look at the CPU and forgot about the lane allocation of certain CPU;'s so nice one as was scratching head on this for GUEST last night and couldn't figure out why, that PCIE3 slot at 8x should've been the indicator. So, really it's part CPU and part Mobo really, I got really lucky with the X79 as it's ancient YET still keeps on coming up with the goods.

@Guest2 - TBH mate, I'd be surprised how much going 8x to 16x really does actually make difference, will read around but it is what it is, at least youv'e fgot that rocket flying along mate.

Playing COD MW at 3440 x 1440 with everything turned up and using gsync & vsync really hammers the PCIE bandwith. I read that this is because gsync uses increased bandwidth on the pcie x16 lane (a lot more than x8)
This was easily reflected in game as I have 90fps set as the highest limited fps. With the GPU running 8x it would sometimes drop down to the 50fps-60fps range, with it running 16x it only tends to drop down to 70-80fps range. Quite a severe drop in fps which is noticable

The SSD drive runnning at the lower speeds is not noticable, but the 8x over 16x limiting the GPU certainly is. For now I have removed the SSD adapter and put the SSD in the lower speed M2 slot directly on the motherboard

Is there a benchmark / way of testing high resolution with gsync & vsync enabled to show lowest fps? I benchmarked without gsync at 3440 x 1440 and fps was identical (actually better when gpu was running 8x pcie!)

pugheaven · 19 May 2020 at 14:20

Guest2 said:
Playing COD MW at 3440 x 1440 with everything turned up and using gsync & vsync really hammers the PCIE bandwith. I read that this is because gsync uses increased bandwidth on the pcie x16 lane (a lot more than x8)
This was easily reflected in game as I have 90fps set as the highest limited fps. With the GPU running 8x it would sometimes drop down to the 50fps-60fps range, with it running 16x it only tends to drop down to 70-80fps range. Quite a severe drop in fps which is noticable

The SSD drive runnning at the lower speeds is not noticable, but the 8x over 16x limiting the GPU certainly is. For now I have removed the SSD adapter and put the SSD in the lower speed M2 slot directly on the motherboard

Is there a benchmark / way of testing high resolution with gsync & vsync enabled to show lowest fps? I benchmarked without gsync at 3440 x 1440 and fps was identical (actually better when gpu was running 8x pcie!)

I was sure they implemented this... so might be worth runing that as 16x and 8x and compare the twi as that's what that benchmark does.

https://benchmarks.ul.com/news/3dmark-pcie-40-bandwidth-test

https://hexus.net/tech/news/graphic...express-feature-test-3dmark-benchmarks-suite/

Also, from years ago I know, but shows how the difference can be seen in one of the early 3DMarks

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-scaling-analysis,1572-8.html

Guest2 · 19 May 2020 at 15:02

pugheaven said:
I was sure they implemented this... so might be worth runing that as 16x and 8x and compare the twi as that's what that benchmark does.

https://benchmarks.ul.com/news/3dmark-pcie-40-bandwidth-test

https://hexus.net/tech/news/graphic...express-feature-test-3dmark-benchmarks-suite/

Also, from years ago I know, but shows how the difference can be seen in one of the early 3DMarks

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-scaling-analysis,1572-8.html

Wonderful, thanks. 12.15GB/s with gsync on and off. I'll stick my GPU in the x8 slot now and see how it does (instead of removing the m2 drive from motherboard and fitting it back into the adapter)

edit. Results in. PCIE 16x vs 8x makes a huge difference.

~6.5fps running 8x
~13.5fps running 16x

Left shows 16x, right 8x

pugheaven · 19 May 2020 at 17:51

WOW, it does when shifting large amounts around, that's alomost twice as quick which kinda does match the numbers of the protocols so yeah, the most important here is GPU uses 16x and accept slower M2 drive mate which lets be honest is still lightening!!! IIt's just not got those glory figures we all want... but it's a fine fast machine but you're gonna lose more by 8x GPU there bigtime. Glad it helped anyway matey!

Gonna run that myseklf now and see what it says for me lol

pugheaven · 19 May 2020 at 18:05

Guest2 · 19 May 2020 at 18:17

pugheaven said:
WOW, it does when shifting large amounts around, that's alomost twice as quick which kinda does match the numbers of the protocols so yeah, the most important here is GPU uses 16x and accept slower M2 drive mate which lets be honest is still lightening!!! IIt's just not got those glory figures we all want... but it's a fine fast machine but you're gonna lose more by 8x GPU there bigtime. Glad it helped anyway matey!

Gonna run that myseklf now and see what it says for me lol

I was surprised, based on the ither tests ive seen there wouldnt be much difference but clearly there is.
832/832 is fast enough for now and will be at least ready for when I get a new motherboard, cpu & ram (and soundcard)

pugheaven said:

Nice, pcie 4.0. I expect that will hold out for the next few generations of GPUs whereas I would probably need a new motherboard to take advantage of the bext gen / gen after if GPUs.
Is pcie 5.0 a thing yet? 4.0 is brand new isnt it?

pugheaven · 19 May 2020 at 18:23

Guest2 said:
I was surprised, based on the ither tests ive seen there wouldnt be much difference but clearly there is.
832/832 is fast enough for now and will be at least ready for when I get a new motherboard, cpu & ram (and soundcard)

Nice, pcie 4.0. I expect that will hold out for the next few generations of GPUs whereas I would probably need a new motherboard to take advantage of the bext gen / gen after if GPUs.
Is pcie 5.0 a thing yet? 4.0 is brand new isnt it?

Yeah it's only the 5700XT that's PCIE4.0, but it's still plugged into my PCIE3.0 as I'm running old school gear but yeah if I keep or upgrade always nice to have it. TBH, I won't be upgrading this board for a few years, it's last 7 years now, got plenty of life in it yet, will just uipgrade GPU's instead. PCIE5.0 will probably be around 2022 I reckon with DDR5 and a proper leap.

From what I see, over the last 5 years, little jumps here, little jumps there, but you can blow £1k on a PC and a £2k PC will not blow it away, deminishing returns is what I'm seeing, Im playing games at 4k now with a old XEON and x79 board, that says it all really tbh.

Guest2 · 20 May 2020 at 09:45

pugheaven said:
From what I see, over the last 5 years, little jumps here, little jumps there, but you can blow £1k on a PC and a £2k PC will not blow it away, deminishing returns is what I'm seeing, Im playing games at 4k now with a old XEON and x79 board, that says it all really tbh.

Make that closer to 10 years. i7 4790k still keeping up in games at the moment with a 2080Ti. I don't see the need just yet for a CPU change. When i do at least the Rocket will work at faster speeds, even if i need to change almost my whole PC

I decided to re-run Crystal Disk mark and it shows a slight increase in score from before (in the same PCIE2.0 M2 slot on motherboard) Maybe the benchmark is a bit random?! Strange that some of the reads and writes are faster in PCIE 2.0 than in 3.0 on the same drive