New TF2 Update

RobH · 29 Feb 2008 at 14:51

I don't think it will do that much to gameplay, for example on Dustbowl Stage 3 as attackers you can get a demo in the building need the defenders spawn, the one on the left (as defenders) with the catwalk. From there you can spam grenades and take out a lot of deployables that may be setup, this uses a lot of ammo but there is a full ammo crate just behind you. Most of the key locations the spamming takes place you will be near an ammo source a lot of the time. It just reduces camping which is a good thing.

Also about stealing the engineers metal (I'm still not 100% certain that ammo uses metal from the dispenser), if it does happen at least there will be someone around to defend the engineer if they do get caught of guard when they only have a level 1 sentry. The rate at which a sentry can go from 1 to 3 is pretty quick anyway so it would make a change to see more lvl 2 sentrys around.

Phal · 29 Feb 2008 at 14:57

I hear people saying theres no skill in getting kills from spam...

Surely then theres no skill in killing people with no ammo?

Makunouchi · 29 Feb 2008 at 15:01

This is such a nerf for Soldiers

Im now going to have to spend half my time running around trying to get ammo, wheres the fun in that?

Gerard · 29 Feb 2008 at 15:02

Phal said:
I hear people saying theres no skill in getting kills from spam...

Surely then theres no skill in killing people with no ammo?

Soldier has a shotgun to fall back on, demo man has either grenade launcher or sticky launcher depending on what he used up first. I think the logical thing with reduced ammo is do you keep enough to cover a retreat or do you get greedy and try to get some mroe kills and then have to rely on a less powerful weapon to cover your escape.

Phal · 29 Feb 2008 at 15:09

Like it has been said already, people wont spam less :/ theyll just look for ammo more... So wheres the fun in that?

They already nerfed the amount of ammo you get from picking up dead weapons etc, not sure why they needed to nerf this too.

Its all these damn CP maps. If you put 24 people in one area, of course theres going to be spam :\ only stupid people would think otherwise.

This is why I always preferred CTF. That way it was just attackers vs defenders and not this mass spam war in the middle somewhere.

Gerard · 29 Feb 2008 at 15:11

Phal said:
and not this mass spam war in the middle somewhere.

Youve obviously not seen some of the 2fort battles ive been a part of in the sewers. The spam was so excessive with like 6 soldiers on each side exchanging fire my frame rate was dive bombing.

Phal · 29 Feb 2008 at 15:13

Gerard said:
Youve obviously not seen some of the 2fort battles ive been a part of in the sewers. The spam was so excessive with like 6 soldiers on each side exchanging fire my frame rate was dive bombing.

Well when I said CTF, I meant more in the days of TFC.

2fort now is just a mess because the map is too small for the number of people on servers these days.

In the past, 16 player servers were the norm so that was more reasonable. 24 or more players on 2fort is just too much.

mr.sly · 29 Feb 2008 at 15:13

Phal said:
Like it has been said already, people wont spam less :/ theyll just look for ammo more... So wheres the fun in that?

They already nerfed the amount of ammo you get from picking up dead weapons etc, not sure why they needed to nerf this too.

Its all these damn CP maps. If you put 24 people in one area, of course theres going to be spam :\ only stupid people would think otherwise.

This is why I always preferred CTF. That way it was just attackers vs defenders and not this mass spam war in the middle somewhere.

Hmmm... if you have run out of ammo, how are you going to spam? Surely that's less spam instantly?

Phal · 29 Feb 2008 at 15:23

spam... die... spam... die!

Just need to know where all the ammo spots are and it wont be that much of a problem. However, it will be a constant pain in the arse and engineers will be pulling their hair out because theres never any metal to build with

mr.sly · 29 Feb 2008 at 15:29

Phal said:
spam... die... spam... die!

Just need to know where all the ammo spots are and it wont be that much of a problem. However, it will be a constant pain in the arse and engineers will be pulling their hair out because theres never any metal to build with

You do realise this is TEAM Fortress 2. Why spam if its going to hurt your team and your engineers setting up a defence, or getting telels up to help you push forward? It doesn't make sense at all.

Just sounds like you're trying to break the game on purpose and not have fun.

RobH · 29 Feb 2008 at 15:30

Imagine if the game had been released with these ammo levels, no one would be complaining, it would just be part of the game, people hate change. Valve collect statistics from every player so can clearly see which classes are doing what, they obviously saw an imbalance and changed the game to suit this.

It's trivial to modify server settings so that ammo settings can be overidden so if people really hate the new settings they can always change the server.

Gerard · 29 Feb 2008 at 15:34

The new changes also make the dispenser more relevant. Assaulting a base now means that the engineer can move up with the soldiers and demo men and plonk down a dispenser in a good location. Dunno if it will work that way in most pubs though.

edgedemon · 29 Feb 2008 at 15:40

Hmm, I always play demoman and do sit there showering an area with explosives so will let you know how it effects my cunning plan

mks2005 · 29 Feb 2008 at 15:58

Gerard said:
The new changes also make the dispenser more relevant. Assaulting a base now means that the engineer can move up with the soldiers and demo men and plonk down a dispenser in a good location. Dunno if it will work that way in most pubs though.

Exactly. People seem to completely forget that they aren't just playing on their own.

I haven't actually played since the change but I stil can't see people running out of ammo that much. People are dying almost constantly, their weapons dropping, giving ammo.

If the attack moves up to a choke point and people are starting to run low on ammo, this creates the need for TEAMWORK, i.e. requires an engineer to strategically place a dispenser to help out.

I can't believe the extent to which people are whining on the TF2 forum, especially since before people were constantly screaming "NERF SOLDIER". I think this is an excellent change.

Oh and don't forget there's a shotgun too. It's not useless.

Phal · 29 Feb 2008 at 16:05

mks2005 said:
Exactly. People seem to completely forget that they aren't just playing on their own.

I haven't actually played since the change but I stil can't see people running out of ammo that much. People are dying almost constantly, their weapons dropping, giving ammo.

If the attack moves up to a choke point and people are starting to run low on ammo, this creates the need for TEAMWORK, i.e. requires an engineer to strategically place a dispenser to help out.

I can't believe the extent to which people are whining on the TF2 forum, especially since before people were constantly screaming "NERF SOLDIER". I think this is an excellent change.

Oh and don't forget there's a shotgun too. It's not useless.

You cane believe the extend of which people are whining?

hello? lol

The people whining about nerfing soldiers are happy now. Its now the demos and soldiers whining and theres a lot of them! thats why theres whining.

As for TEAMWORK as you put it... well its only going to hurt public server play where there is no teamwork 99% of the time.

People will continue to play whatever class they want regardless of what their team needs. You might be lucky and get a team with the right balance of classes or you might dip out and get a team full of Snipers and Spies!

They already nerfed how much ammo you get from dropped weapons :\ Dont think this nerf was needed tbh

Phal · 29 Feb 2008 at 16:09

mr.sly said:
You do realise this is TEAM Fortress 2. Why spam if its going to hurt your team and your engineers setting up a defence, or getting telels up to help you push forward? It doesn't make sense at all.

Just sounds like you're trying to break the game on purpose and not have fun.

Trying to break the game? :| uh huh!

Hey, if I have to choose between running back to my spawn to get ammo or taking ammo from a spawn that an engineer might need, Im gonna take the ammo.

Im not going to stand around waiting for ammo to respawn just some random idiot can build a sentry only to get it blown up a few minutes later. If the random engineer wants ammo then he can run out in the open, dodging rockets and Snipers to pick up the weapons.

If on the other hand I know the engineer and I know hes good, then I might let him have it!

RobH · 29 Feb 2008 at 16:10

I think one of the reaons they reduced the demoman and soldier is because they are the two main classes that can reach normally inaccessible places. I think that Valve are hoping that these classes will be a little more conservative with their ammo now it's on a more limited supply (no refills on the roof etc.). Normally these two classes would harry the area hoping that they might get lucky and hit something which invloves little skill, this change might improve this situation.

mr.sly · 29 Feb 2008 at 16:14

Phal said:
Trying to break the game? :| uh huh!

Hey, if I have to choose between running back to my spawn to get ammo or taking ammo from a spawn that an engineer might need, Im gonna take the ammo.

Im not going to stand around waiting for ammo to respawn just some random idiot can build a sentry only to get it blown up a few minutes later. If the random engineer wants ammo then he can run out in the open, dodging rockets and Snipers to pick up the weapons.

If on the other hand I know the engineer and I know hes good, then I might let him have it!

So it's all back to YOU again, not the team.

And TBH it just sounds like you're playing on n00b servers anyway. Try looking around you might find a better game.

Phal · 29 Feb 2008 at 16:21

mr.sly said:
So it's all back to YOU again, not the team.

And TBH it just sounds like you're playing on n00b servers anyway. Try looking around you might find a better game.

Yes its ME because I ( ME ) play the game for FUN - I dont play to make sure others have fun >.>

If I have a decent team then I play accordingly...

As for noob servers, feel free to come play on ours and see how you rate against the regulars

Phal · 29 Feb 2008 at 16:24

RobH said:
I think one of the reaons they reduced the demoman and soldier is because they are the two main classes that can reach normally inaccessible places. I think that Valve are hoping that these classes will be a little more conservative with their ammo now it's on a more limited supply (no refills on the roof etc.). Normally these two classes would harry the area hoping that they might get lucky and hit something which invloves little skill, this change might improve this situation.

That might happen but again I dont think it will :\

People never last long up to of stuff anyway because you generally lose a fair amount of health getting up there ( specially for a demo ) and then because youre up high, everyone shoots at you

so you have to come down for health quite soon anyway.

Worst comes to worst, you jump down and get ammo/health and go back up. People wont think twice about using 1 gren or 1 rocket to get up on something.