New Top Gear (2011) BBC 2 8PM!

Its a con to make the green people happy, go far enough back into the manufacturing of these electric cars and you realise they produce more pollution than a normal car running on petrol for the same amount of time.
Best thing would be to keep old cars going and not keep making new ones all the time, make a car that lasts.

I cant see electric cars being the norm for a long time, you would need fast charging i personally would be happy with around 20mins tops.
Range wise at least 200 miles and batteries that last, solar panel roof maybe to trickle charge might gain you an extra few miles on a sunny day and could possibly charge the car over a few days.

How about wireless charging via those EMF pads, stick them everywhere in all parking spots and at traffic lights so when ever you stop it charges a little.
I think a lot needs to be spent on the whole idea for it to work.
 
If you don't care about initial cost or cost of ownership or running costs, you can make pretty good electric cars. There's a road-legal EV that does 0-60 in 1.8s and a quarter mile in 10.258s, but it still has the same range per KWh as the Leaf (and about the same overall range, since it holds 22.7KWh and the Leaf holds 24KWh).

EDIT: In case anyone wants to look it up, it's called "White Zombie". It's a converted 1972 Datsun 1200. The owner does drive it on the roads - it's a genuine road car.

John Wayland....


His current project is a mk1 Honda Insight with over 70kWh of Dow Kokam lithium cells and an EV1 motor and a target of 350 mile range - Silver Streak.

Im yet to actually see Top Gear from Sunday.
 
The thing is that Top Gear have an obvious bias against electric cars and despite what the spokeswoman says the conclusion at the end of the piece was that electric cars are no good. By picking a destination within range of the car and intentionally depleting the battery before setting off so it runs out there is a clear intent to subtly insinuate that the range is poor.

The range is poor. So even if the review did show clear intent to subtly insinuate it (which it didn't), it still wouldn't matter. Because it's true. The range is poor. No need to insinuate it (which they didn't do anyway). It can be stated outright. The range is poor.

Top Gear don't have a sycophantic approach to battery-powered electric cars, so they are unfashionable (and they said so in this episode, referring to themselves as dinosaurs).

It does have a sycophantic approach to hydrogen fuel cell electric cars.
 
Clarkson also mentioned in the test what it costs to charge the car and what it costs per mile, did I hear it right that it's close to a Polo Bluemotion?

If you charge during the day, yes.

But that's only part of it:

i) You need to factor in battery replacement costs because you will need to replace the batteries and they are very expensive. The battery in the Leaf is relatively cheap at £7000. The max charge (and therefore range) will decrease over time and charge cycles. A generous estimate would be 100,000 miles before the range decreases too much. So that's 7p per mile. On a relatively cheap battery pack and a generous estimate of how much use you'll get out of it.

ii) A large majority of the retail price of diesel is tax. If the number of EVs becomes less than completely irrelevant, the government will have to recoup the loss of that tax revenue somehow. So the current situation is massively rigged in favour of EVs and can only be temporary.
 
John Wayland....


His current project is a mk1 Honda Insight with over 70kWh of Dow Kokam lithium cells and an EV1 motor and a target of 350 mile range - Silver Streak.

Im yet to actually see Top Gear from Sunday.

5 miles per KWh is a hell of a target. What does he know that nobody else knows? Unless he's planning on doing it at 10mph.
 
5 miles per KWh is a hell of a target. What does he know that nobody else knows? Unless he's planning on doing it at 10mph.

Well its about the best body for such an attempt! We all need targets :p

I think I calculated an Insight would need around 7Kw to maintain 50mph on flat roads. So i can see its a decent target using a sensible SoC/DoD window. The Nissan Leaf can be egged to 4miles/kWh and thats positively bulky in comparison.
 
A large majority of the retail price of diesel is tax. If the number of EVs becomes less than completely irrelevant, the government will have to recoup the loss of that tax revenue somehow. So the current situation is massively rigged in favour of EVs and can only be temporary.
That's true, but if there will be more EV's sold the price will go down for each car so a Leaf costing 30k now might cost 20k if they can sell more.

The biggest downfall are the batteries, we are still waiting for a breakthrough in battery technology to make them viable.
 
The biggest downfall are the batteries, we are still waiting for a breakthrough in battery technology to make them viable.

You cant really sit there waiting though..... you need to develop battery technology and the Leaf is part of the process just like the EV1, just need to ensure oil companies do not own the patents for large format batterys this time round.

Can a mod prune this thread to create a new EV thread from Top Gear?
 
The T-800 series Terminators sent after Sarah Connor and John Connor respectively can function for up to 120 years on their original battery's, however when Skynet designed the T-850 model which was sent to protect Catherine Brewster its battery system was replaced with a pair of removable hydrogen fuel cells. Furthermore the later T-888 models were equipped with a shielded nuclear fuel cells.

If our glorious robot overlord's believe fuel cells are better than batteries then I side with them ^^
 
Well its about the best body for such an attempt! We all need targets :p

I think I calculated an Insight would need around 7Kw to maintain 50mph on flat roads. So i can see its a decent target using a sensible SoC/DoD window. The Nissan Leaf can be egged to 4miles/kWh and thats positively bulky in comparison.

Hauling 3 times as much battery around can't help the comparison. That's a lot of extra weight compared with the battery in the Leaf.

I'd be interested to see what distance he does get.

Having thought about it, I'm less skeptical about how possible it is.
 
The biggest downfall are the batteries, we are still waiting for a breakthrough in battery technology to make them viable.

It's only fairly recently that there has been a lot of work on radical improvements to batteries. It's probably spurred on more by handheld computers than cars, but that doesn't matter.

Does anyone know anything up to date about the STAIR battery research? They had working prototypes 2 years ago but I haven't seen anything more recent.
 
Did anyone body else wonder what the point of the co-driver was in the soldier's team? He didn't have pace-notes and just called out what he thought was the best (the obvious) thing to do from looking out of the windscreen; "accelerate, brake, change down" :/
 
Hauling 3 times as much battery around can't help the comparison. That's a lot of extra weight compared with the battery in the Leaf.

I'd be interested to see what distance he does get.

Having thought about it, I'm less skeptical about how possible it is.

Doesn't matter so much with constant speed though its mass is probably similiar if not light than a stock Leaf. I think hes saying around 900lbs of batteries so thats a kerb mass around 2650lb and those fabled Bridgestone RE92 that are standard fit and still available in the US will help. The car will still have have a tiny CdA.
 
UK: BMW's Mini E trial shows most recharging done at home

Full results of the BMW Group’s UK government-supported research into the day to day running of electric cars out on Thursday (4 August) revealed: over 250,000 miles were driven on local roads, the average cost to charge was less than GBP0.02 per mile, the average daily distance driven was 29.7 miles, virtually all recharging was done at home and that "almost all" participants said they’d consider buying an electric car as a result of taking part.

The release comes in a week in which popular TV programme Top Gear caused controversy by running out of power in a Nissan Leaf and encountering difficulty recharging it. Meanwhile, in Los Angeles, an Edmunds.com employee driving a long-term test Leaf ran into range difficulties in congested freeway conditions.

The UK Mini E field trial in the UK involved 62 members of the public and 76 pool users running the battery-powered hatchbacks over two six-month periods. BMW claimed the trial was the most in-depth of its kind in the UK to publish its findings so far.

Data was collected electronically by data-loggers in the car and the home charging points, and also from driver research carried out by Oxford Brookes University.

"The early findings have already informed the development of the 2011 BMW ActiveE car, a four-seat car based on the 1 Series Coupe, but the biggest beneficiary will be the i3, the first purpose-built EV from the group, set for launch in 2013," the automaker said.

"This information has also helped to inform UK policy-making decisions and other EV market stakeholders."

The UK trial found that everyday use of the electric Minis didn’t radically differ from the typical driving patterns of a control group of drivers of conventionally powered cars in the same segment. The daily journey distance of 29.7 miles was slightly more than the 26.5 miles recorded by the control cars, a mix of Coopers and 116i models. The UK average daily distance driven for private cars overall is less than 25 miles. With information gathered by on-board data-loggers, the average single trip distance was recorded as 9.5 miles compared to the UK average of seven miles.

Four out of five people reported that 80% of their trips could be done exclusively in the EV, and this increased to 90% of users saying that with the addition of rear seats and a bigger boot, all their trips could have been done in the electric car. 84% said severe low temperatures during both phases of the field trial affected the distance that could be driven between charges [this was also the case with a trial in the US - ed], but despite that, four out of five participants told researchers they thought the EV was suitable for winter use, with one user, Janet Borgers, saying she “regularly did 88 miles in a single journey in the cold weather”. Another female commuter clocked up almost 8,000 miles over a September to March period.

Given the daily driven distance of just under 30 miles, the drivers felt confident enough not to have to charge their all-electric every night. In fact, the average was 2.9 times a week, according to information fed back via electricity smart meters, with special night-time tariffs successfully encouraging individual drivers to charge when it was cheapest, which coincided with a low demand period and a greater proportion of renewable energy in the grid mix.

Nine out of ten drivers told the researchers that charging actually suited their daily routine, with 81% agreeing with the statement “I prefer to plug in the car than go to a fuel station”. The running cost savings were appreciated by users, with one participant telling researchers the thing she’d miss most was: “the money I will have to start paying for fuel again!”

Most charged at home, with 82% using their wall-mounted charging box 90% of the time. The lack of a comprehensive public charging infrastructure in the UK was noted, with four out of five participants (82%) saying they thought that it was “essential” that a network of charging points was established. However, almost three quarters (72%) said they were able to use their car perfectly adequately right now as they had access to private charging.

Asked about their driving experience, the trial participants were positive. All enjoyed the quietness, with one user quoted as saying: “I like the silence – it’s very futuristic and it causes a reaction when people notice you pull away without making a sound.” And they all agreed with the statement: “electric vehicles are fun to drive”. The reason was partly down to the “fast pick-up and quick acceleration” of the 204hp Mini EV, also a statement all agreed with. One even went so far to say it was “absolutely the best car I have ever driven”.

Driving efficiently to extend the range was seen as part of the enjoyment rather than a chore. Understanding that use of the regenerative braking could increase the range by approximately 15%, three quarters of the users (74%) agreed with the statement that it was “a game for me to use the regenerative braking in a way that enables me to reach my destination without draining the battery.”

Asked by researchers for suggestions to deal with the potential danger from the low noise at low speeds, over half (56%) said that instead of an artificial noise, the driver should pay more attention. However just over a quarter (28%) said they’d like to have a warning noise below 12.5mph.

Almost all participants (96%) said they’d consider buying an electric car as a result of taking part, and half (51%) revealed they would pay a third more for an EV. A third (30%) said they’d consider taking the plunge within a year, while 55% said they’d hold fire for two or more years.

The trial found that one week was all that was needed for customers to adapt to the characteristics and peculiarities of driving an EV, such as charging, range, regenerative braking and low noise. However those company car drivers invited to use the Mini as a pool car on a less frequent basis needed increased training and support during the initial period of vehicle use in order to consolidate their learning.

Fleet use was a big part of the trial with organisations in the UK and in Europe reporting positive feedback from both individual drivers and also fleet managers monitoring the EV's use as a pool car. Those users who swapped out of their regular car reported that the EV was fine for 70% of journeys made during the working day, while the pool car success rate was even better with between 80-90% of regular trips achievable.

The speed of charging was an important consideration for fleet users, while managers also flagged up the need for a clear procedure for the efficient charging of pool vehicles. Companies that participated included Scottish and Southern Energy, Oxfordshire County Council, and Oxford City Council.

The Mini EV trial was one of eight UK projects supported by the GBP25m Ultra Low Carbon Vehicle Demonstrator Programme, funded by the Technology Strategy Board and Department for Transport. These are aimed at bringing forward the introduction of viable electric passenger vehicles to the UK.

Suzanne Gray, general manager of BMW i said: “The feedback from the trial has been invaluable in helping our understanding of how people really respond to electric cars and other factors necessary to support electric car drivers. With this information we will be in a strong position to provide a well-rounded product and service proposition to customers of the i3 and to work with other players in the electric vehicle market to make it a successful experience for a new generation of users.”

Kulveer Ranger, the mayor of London's environment director, said: "Electric driving technology is coming on leaps and bounds, but people naturally still have questions and concerns. Research such as this by BMW Group into real life experiences is invaluable as it debunks some common myths and underscores why electric vehicles are perfect for urban driving.

"The trial has also demonstrated the importance attached to supporting infrastructure, which is why the Mayor of London has launched Source London to provide a network of charge points that will help to create optimal conditions for electric vehicle use in the UK’s capital."

The UK trial mirrored those on the east and west coasts of the US, in Munich and Berlin; Paris; Tokyo and Beijing and Shenzhen.

The 40 Mini Es are still on UK roads in partnership activities which continue to promote awareness and understanding of electric vehicles, and they will form part of the BMW Group’s official vehicle fleet for the London 2012 Olympic Games.
 
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