New VM build

dulcificum

dulcificum

dulcificum

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22 Mar 2017
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291
Location
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Holy crap! Hard to believe but it's been about six years since my last PC build. The good thing is my budget is slightly higher now. The bad thing is my current PC is dying very rapidly so I'm on a bit of a schedule.

Key requirements:

  • Fast at running multiple Windows VMs with multiple high-RAM Chrome tabs in each
  • Many high CPU Flash instances in each VM (probably need an i7/i9 or is Ryzen my best bet?)
  • Must be able to run 4+ monitors with ease
  • Quiet is preferable - my current system is mostly fanless (maybe a 9700 will be quieter and colder?)
  • 32 GB RAM minimum, probably 64GB (more RAM is more important than super fast RAM)
  • Ballpark budget £2k?! Actually might need to revise that down a lot as want to get new monitors. I really don't know, let's say closer to £1.5k.

Other relevant info:

  • Don't need keyboard, monitors, mouse, etc.
  • No gaming so only graphics performance required is for running the screens. Graphics cards is where the biggest gap in my knowledge is (although also have zero clue about cases). Especially considering I'd prefer quiet and low power.
  • Will sort my own storage too. Have a 2TB SSD for system partition, everything else will be from the NAS
  • Easy upgrade to 10 GbE if required later preferable
  • AMD/Intel agnostic
  • Agnostic about form factor - anything from ITX to ATX is good
  • Ability to upgrade in the future not vital

Few ideas:

  • 1 x OcUK Tech Labs AMD Ryzen Pro Gaming PC Configurator = £1,750.84
    • Case:phanteks Enthoo Pro M Midi Tower Case with Window - Black
    • Build Time:Standard Build Systems - Dispatched in approx 7 working days
    • Motherboard:Asus ROG Strix X370-F Gaming AMD X370 (Socket AM4) DDR4 ATX Motherboard
    • Memory:Kingston Fury Black 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4 PC4-19200C15 2400MHz Dual/Quad Channel Kit (HX424C15FBK4/64)
    • Power Supply:Super Flower Leadex II 1200W 80 Plus Gold Modular Power Supply - Black
    • CPU Cooler:be quiet! Silent Loop Superior Liquid CPU Cooler - 280mm
    • Processor:AMD Ryzen 7 2700X Eight Core/Sixteen Thread 4.35GHz Processor (MPK)
    • Graphics:palit GeForce GTX 1050 StormX 2048MB PCI-Express GDDR5 Graphics Card
Total: £1,764.94 (includes shipping: £14.10)
​


Overclockers UK:
Total: £1,690.07 (includes shipping: £11.10)



  • 1 x OcUK Tech Labs Intel X-Series Workstation PC Configurator = £2,936.90
    • Case:Corsair Obsidian 500D Midi Tower Gaming Case - Black Tempered Glass (CC-9011116-WW)
    • Graphics:pNY Nvidia Quadro P400 DVI Low Profile Graphics Card - 2GB GDDR5 - 256 CUDA Core
    • Primary Solid State Drive:WD Blue 3D NAND 250GB M.2 2280 6Gbps Solid State Drive (WDS250G2B0B)
    • Power Supply:Kolink Continuum 1050W 80 Plus Platinum Modular Power Supply
    • Cooling:be quiet! Silent Loop Superior Liquid CPU Cooler - 360mm
    • Motherboard:Asus Prime X299-A (Socket 2066) Intel X299 ATX Motherboard
    • Memory:G.Skill Trident Z RGB 64GB (4x16GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C14 3200MHz Quad Channel Kit (F4-3200C14Q-64GTZR)
    • Processor:Intel Core i9-7920X 2.9GHz (Skylake X / Basin Falls) Socket LGA2066 Processor - Retail
Total: £2,951.00 (includes shipping: £14.10)
​
 
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threadripper 2 16c32t
mobo already has 2x gigabit ethernet ports and also 1x 10gigabit ethernet port
64gb ram - (2x 2x16gb), mobo has 8 ram slots, so can upgrade to 128gb if needed
rx570 for multimonitor display out - up to 5 monitors with 1x dvi, 2x hdmi, 2xdp
beefy cpu heatsink and a silenced, but still reasonably well ventilated case
[edit] standard HSF for cpu cooling, reason being, although having an AIO cooler looks nice, but you have to deal with the possibility that the pump may fail at some point, or that the hose/fittings/pump may leak...whereas a lump of metal with fans won't have that issue.

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £2,104.14 (includes shipping: £15.30)
​
 
Thanks looks good. I'm thinking more than AMD will be the way due to my need for multi-thread and good thermal performance. However, do you know how efficient they are compared to Intel running Win10 VMs?

Regarding 4-headed set up - back in the day multi monitor used to be a bit complicated. Is it simply the case of getting any old graphics card with 4 HDMI or whatever out and I'm good to go?
 
dulcificum said:
However, do you know how efficient they are compared to Intel running Win10 VMs?
Click to expand...
Intel's VT-x and VT-d are more feature rich than AMD-V and AMDs IOMMU support, if you are just running something like VirtualBox you shouldn't have issues, if you are running a Xen/HypV/ESX cluster then you do.

dulcificum said:
Is it simply the case of getting any old graphics card with 4 HDMI or whatever out and I'm good to go?
Click to expand...
usually, yes.
 
tamzzy said:
Intel's VT-x and VT-d are more feature rich than AMD-V and AMDs IOMMU support, if you are just running something like VirtualBox you shouldn't have issues, if you are running a Xen/HypV/ESX cluster then you do.


usually, yes.
Click to expand...

Great, cheers. Yeah VM stuff shouldn't be anything complex though I have found that Flash is particularly bad with Parallels for example.

Regarding the GPU you recommended it seems to have 2x HDMI and 2 x displayport. I guess I just grab whatever cables I need to make it work?

Thanks!
 
tamzzy said:
mobo already has 2x gigabit ethernet ports and also 1x 10gigabit ethernet port
Click to expand...

Thanks. But £430 seems mighty steep for a mobo. Wouldn't I be better off getting https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asus...9-socket-tr4-e-atx-motherboard-mb-6a8-as.html and just adding a 10GbE card when I need it? I'd rather be at £1500 than £2000 I think.

orbitalwalsh said:
Selecting first Gen thread ripper would save you extra £100 if needs be :)

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/amd-...hz-socket-tr4-processor-retail-cp-3a7-am.html

Slightly more but damn good case ! Also USB C front port

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/phanteks-eclipse-p600s-silent-midi-tower-case-black-ca-08v-pt.html
Click to expand...

Ezyryder said:
The Phanteks 600s is a great silent case, I can vouch for that!
Click to expand...

Like the sound of both these options. Is there that much difference in the CPUs?

And front USB-C would be very useful. Can you speak to the noise qualities of both these cases?

What about power issues running 4 monitors?

Also, I'm a bit worried about the noise performance of the cooler and the GPUs I'm looking at. Will they really be pretty much silent?

Current state of my plan:

My basket at overclockers/']https://www.overclockers.co.uk]Overclockers UK[/url]:
Total: £1,494.00 (includes shipping: £14.10)
​
 
dulcificum said:
Is there that much difference in the CPUs?
Click to expand...
difference between 1st gen 1950x and 2nd gen 2950x is 10% single-core performance, and 3-5% multicore performance in favour of the 2nd gen part.
up to you if you feel this is worth the £100. i do, but it's not my money to spend :p

dulcificum said:
Thanks. But £430 seems mighty steep for a mobo. Wouldn't I be better off getting https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asus...9-socket-tr4-e-atx-motherboard-mb-6a8-as.html and just adding a 10GbE card when I need it?
Click to expand...
there are also other differences - most important being the VRM circuitry. that asus you linked is an 8 phase vrm, vs the 5+5 phases of the gb x399 aorus extreme. if running at full loads, you'd want as many phases as possible to keep the VRM temps down.
also, 10gb card costs ~£100.
so £290+£100 for the asus + 10gb card vs £430 for x399 aorus extreme which has: 1) better vrms as explained above, 2) better network connectivity (2x gb ports, wifi, 1x 10gb port)...
also, asus warranty is trash (unless you buy from ocuk, and even then, it's debatable), whereas gigabyte has uk rma base and very engaged community staff that will help out with issues.
gigabyte: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/search/member?user_id=78904
asus: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/warning-for-all-motherboard-owners.18840442/
is all the above worth the extra £40? i know which one i'd pick. and again, not my money to spend, so up to you.

dulcificum said:
Can you speak to the noise qualities of both these cases?
Click to expand...
define r6 wins, with respect to noise and cooling.
use google translate: https://nl.hardware.info/reviews/9027/phanteks-eclipse-p600s-behuizing-review-het-nieuwe-flexibel
if you take the front panel off the p600s, then cooling is better, but it'll be even more noisy. again, see above review.

dulcificum said:
1 x be quiet! Pure Power 11 700W 80 Plus Gold Modular Power Supply= £96.95
Click to expand...
not required. the full build won't even use 400w at full tilt.
also bequiet psu has worse internals than the antec i specced above. also has less warranty than the antec, and also more expensive. i don't know why you'd want it instead of the antec. in essence, again, not my money to spend, so up to you.
 
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tamzzy said:
so £290+£100 for the asus + 10gb card vs £430 for x399 aorus extreme which has: 1) better vrms as explained above, 2) better network connectivity (2x gb ports, wifi, 1x 10gb port)...
also, asus warranty is trash (unless you buy from ocuk, and even then, it's debatable), whereas gigabyte has uk rma base and very engaged community staff that will help out with issues.
gigabyte: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/search/member?user_id=78904
asus: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/warning-for-all-motherboard-owners.18840442/
is all the above worth the extra £40? i know which one i'd pick. and again, not my money to spend, so up to you.
Click to expand...

The thing is 10GbE is a way down the line. Probably not for more than a year or two so that £100 isn't in the picture yet (and I still hope interfaces will come down).

Are there really so few mobo options or do I need to look on other sites too?

I get your reasoning and if I can afford it will definitely follow you on the CPU even though both are TR4.


tamzzy said:
define r6 wins, with respect to noise and cooling.
use google translate: https://nl.hardware.info/reviews/9027/phanteks-eclipse-p600s-behuizing-review-het-nieuwe-flexibel
if you take the front panel off the p600s, then cooling is better, but it'll be even more noisy. again, see above review.

not required. the full build won't even use 400w at full tilt.
also bequiet psu has worse internals than the antec i specced above. also has less warranty than the antec, and also more expensive. i don't know why you'd want it instead of the antec. in essence, again, not my money to spend, so up to you.
Click to expand...

Appreciated on both counts.
 
dulcificum said:
Are there really so few mobo options or do I need to look on other sites too?
Click to expand...
there's only 2 boards to consider when going for threadripper - msi and gigabyte.

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £1,431.59 (includes shipping: £11.70)
​

gigabyte is the cheapest of the high end x399 board. asus zenith extreme is waaaaaay overpriced, so not even worth considering. best x399 board is the msi meg creation, but more expensive than the gigabyte, and doesn't have 10gb ethernet.

 
dulcificum said:
£1500 than £2000 I think.
Click to expand...
dulcificum said:
My basket at overclockers/']https://www.overclockers.co.uk]Overclockers UK[/url]:
Total: £1,494.00 (includes shipping: £14.10)
Click to expand...

also just FYI, it's £1500 because you haven't added the ram yet ;)

tamzzy said:
2 x Team Group Vulcan T-Force 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 PC4-24000C16 3000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Grey (TLGD432G3= 2 x £199.99
Click to expand...
brings it up to £1894 :P
 
For Threadripper systems you need at least 4 sticks of ram for best performance as the CPUs have quad channel memory controllers.

And there's nothing wrong with the Asus X399 Prime if you want to get a cheaper board (but would recommend staying at 16 cores or fewer) - have run one with a decent overclock and 64 GB of Ram since launch and it's not missed a beat yet.

If running a lot of VMs then an NVME drive can make sense, as the extra queue depth the drives offer over the SATA alternatives can really bump up disk performance for VMs (not really worth it if your just gaming though)
 
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i'd go with a cross of what tamzzy and yourself have listed , Aorus board, 1st gen Thread ripper, Rock Rock Pro 4, RX 570 and P600s silent, specially when its on deal!

slightly quieter then above focus

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/cors...lar-power-supply-cp-9020179-uk-ca-23w-cs.html

UK RMA on the unit- unit is replaced with a new one. Seasonic also do this but unit is shipped to and from Germany unlike Corsair being done UK . Seasonic does have advantage of transferable warranty if you sell it on, but keep the receipt !
 
Okay current version (although this is really maxing out my budget):

My basket at overclockers/']https://www.overclockers.co.uk]Overclockers UK[/url]:
Total: £1,985.59 (includes shipping: £11.70)​
​

I'm not sure if there are cheaper RAM options available elsewhere. And still not convinced about volume of the Sapphire RX 570 Pulse.

Will use normal SSD for now, I don't think I'd benefit from NVMe and I don't use ESXI.

I think the main issue is case now. I'm also looking at Antec P100/GameMax Silent/NZXT H500i/Acousti AcoustiCase C6607B/be quiet Silent Base 601 and also the Nanoxia Deep Silence range.

And not sure whether it's worth replacing stock fans on any of these options?
 
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/giga...ddr5-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-195-gi.html

6+1 vs 4+1 of the Sapphire and better RMA

Though sapphire 8gb is same price

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/sapp...ddr5-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-38g-sp.html

P600s would be in line with Silent base 601 and Corsair 275 Quite version . Personally would chose 801 over 601 as its 3x 140mm vs 2 x 120mm fans . only P600s has USB C port

DO NOT GET 2400HZ ram with AMD our performance will tank!

two of these

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...al-channel-kit-grey-tlgd416g30-my-087-tg.html

again dropping to first gens saves £100

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/amd-...hz-socket-tr4-processor-retail-cp-3a7-am.html
 
Thanks very much for everyone's help - super useful for someone a bit rusty :) I will go with the P600S after reading the reviews. And the Radeon RX570 8GB is great value and seems to run quiet enough.

Shopping around before pulling the trigger I've come up with three options. First, I realised I'm being a bit greedy going for the 2950X when probably a 2700X will do for 90% of my work.

So I could go for a cheapo option leaving me with cash for better monitors:

Cheapo 2700X
Ryzen 2700X + stock cooler
Gigabyte Aorus GA-AX370
4x16GB Team Group Vulcan T-Force 3000MHz
Sapphire Radeon RX 570 Pulse 4GB
Corsair RMx 750w 80 Plus Gold
Phanteks Eclipse P600S Silent
Total: £1135

Or I could go for the full shebang which suddenly looks affordable if you look for cheaper options. While it's overkill, it should definitely last me a while.

2950X Beast
Threadripper 2950X
be quiet! Dark Rock Pro TR4 CPU Cooler - 135mm
Gigabyte X399 Aorus Xtreme
4x16GB Team Group Vulcan T-Force 3000MHz
Sapphire Radeon RX 570 Pulse 8192MB
Corsair RMx 750w 80 Plus Gold
Phanteks Eclipse P600S Silent
Total: £1925

But I think I'm leaning towards a compromise.

Value Compromise?
Threadripper 1950X
be quiet! Dark Rock Pro TR4 CPU Cooler - 135mm
Gigabyte X399 Aorus Xtreme
4x16GB Team Group Vulcan T-Force 3000MHz
Sapphire Radeon RX 570 Pulse 8192MB
Corsair RMx 750w 80 Plus Gold
Phanteks Eclipse P600S Silent
Total: £1700

That saving of £225 is probably worth it for me. Isn't it? Although it's only a 13% saving....

One even more compromise-y option would be to pick up a dirt cheap TR 1920X for bringing the price right down to £1475 which is a right bargain!
 
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