New Wave of DSLR Cameras

King_Boru · 15 Sep 2006 at 15:09

Psilonaught said:
i'm not remotely excited about these - a body is only 30% of the story, who wants to use pentax lenses when you can use Nikon or Canon.

No thanks

Excluding Fuji I presume as they use Nikon lenses.

WillyNelson · 15 Sep 2006 at 15:41

rpstewart said:
The other reason is down to how the manufacturers want the system as a whole to work. The Canon EOS mount is designed for fully electronic lenses with internal focussing motors and no aperture ring. Nikon mounts initially had a mechnical AF drive from the body to give simpler lens mechanics and the ability to have a higher torque motor than could be accomodated in the lens at the time - I think this is no longer used in modern Nikons though. Older Nikon lenses also had an aperture ring so the mount supports both manual and body setting of apertures.

Never thought of that. I used to love the lenses I had with my old AE-1, I think they were EFs, and the EOS ones I got afterwards never 'felt' quite right. That and the manual focus was a horrible little twiddly bit at the very end of the lens.

*sigh* Ah my AE-1, why did I ever get rid of you...

Johnny|lucidcomposure · 15 Sep 2006 at 18:21

Id buy that Leica if I could!! Gorgeous camera

dod · 15 Sep 2006 at 18:41

Nelson said:
I think they were EFs

FD's

I'd think the quality of the olympus lenses would surprise quite a few. I remember having a selection of Zuiko's and they were VERY sharp indeed. If the new ones are anything like them they should be very good.

Sleepyd · 15 Sep 2006 at 19:20

Psilonaught said:
i'm not remotely excited about these - a body is only 30% of the story, who wants to use pentax lenses when you can use Nikon or Canon.

No thanks

At the moment I'd agree.

However, Pentax has a good history of producing quality optics. If you buy some of the old primes they're actually built on a par with the canon L lenses and produce simiar sharpness. Anyone with a history of manufacturing quality photographic equipment can produce a good lens line-up to compete, it's just a question of how much they're willing to invest at the end of the day.

If Pentax are really serious about this we could see some good competition

bigredshark · 16 Sep 2006 at 12:25

Nelson said:
On that note (and slightly OT)...

I understand that the Canon L glass is super quality, a whole bunch on here seem pretty chuffed with them anyway, what's the equivalent with Nikon lenses?

And the big question, who does make the best lenses? (I'm talking mainstream prosumer money here not megabucks specialist companies) Are Canon's Ls better than the Nikon or whoever equivalent?

There isn't a label as such for Nikon's equivilent, however Nikon professional lenses have a gold ring at the front (on the 70-200 f2.8 VR and the 17-55 f2.8 DX for example). As has been said there's not so much hype about them though, I've never seen a better lens than my 70-200 though, it's a brilliant bit of kit.

Lenses are the where the important decisions are, both canon and nikon make good enough cameras, though most people prefer one or the other. The smaller brands (pentax etc) have some nice bodies coming but the lack of lenses bothers me..

Psilonaught · 16 Sep 2006 at 14:38

I just just my 350D on fleebay and am getting the 400D next week. The sensor cleaning and improved ISO noise alone sold it for me.

Am going to keep this until the 5D replacement is released whenever that is (next year?)

DRZ · 16 Sep 2006 at 15:33

Psilonaught said:
I just just my 350D on fleebay and am getting the 400D next week. The sensor cleaning and improved ISO noise alone sold it for me.

Am going to keep this until the 5D replacement is released whenever that is (next year?)

Improved?

Almost every sample image I have seen show its worse :/ That and the metering isnt consistent with the 350D either.

It also seems like the sensor has a really poor dynamic range at each ISO level (compared to the 350D).

I wouldnt buy one because its too small, but having seen some comparisons, something just didnt seem to be right with the output from the 400D...

Psilonaught · 16 Sep 2006 at 16:19

not sure what you mean, from this review the iso noise is better, especially at 100. I was always annoyed to see noise in certain images on my 350 at 100 ISO, which is also shown up in the iso test on the linked review, therefore it seems credible

Show me the links to the neagtive reviews you have read please

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon400D/page4c.shtml

i've also found a summary page of various review conclusions and i don't see any mention of being worse than the 350D :confused:

http://www.dphotojournal.com/canon-eos-400d-digital-rebel-xti-reviews-sample-photos/

DRZ · 16 Sep 2006 at 16:33

Unfortunately, the really good comparison page has gone/moved (it mouseovered comaprison pics and you could really see the difference).

That particular test showed that the 400D was underexposing by ~2/3 of a stop at every ISO level. Mrk (who showed me the comparison) and cyKey drew the same conclusions as me based on the available evidence.

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/dslr/2006/08/28/4486.html is still there, which shows some of what I was talking about.

Psilonaught · 16 Sep 2006 at 17:03

with regards to the under exposuring, the conclusion from dpreview forums is that the the 400D doesn't actually under exposure at all, it's becuase the 350D over exposed

I completely agree with the conclusion they draw because i own a 350D and it's permanantly set to slightly under expose because it tends to overblow highlights.

The sharpness issue some mention is at high ISO's and seems to be due to more aggressive low reduction filtering on the 400. Since i hav never taken a single shot over 800 ISO i couldn't care less

DRZ · 16 Sep 2006 at 17:16

The 350D may well have over exposed, canon have always tended to overexpose IME, but the shots floating about that show really poor dynamic range (the ones in the link I posted above are one example) show there is something else going on.

Psilonaught · 16 Sep 2006 at 17:40

dunno mate. Gonna get it anyway as the samples i have seen are excellent and the AF is identical to that of the 30D. The anti-dust function looks wicked as well.

Gregeff · 26 Sep 2006 at 14:15

Just a quick up date, Sigma have now released thir SD14 and Fuji have released their S5Pro. Suprisingly the S5Pro features the same sensor as was in the S3!! However it is now in the D200 body

I was expecting something new sensor wise from them. Anyway here are the links:

Fuji S5Pro

Sigma SD14

Gregeff

rpstewart · 26 Sep 2006 at 14:25

I like the idea of the dust protector on the Sigma, keeping the dust far away from the sensor means that it's right out of the focal plane. The latest Canons (except the 400D) have a single piece AA filter & sensor which make them a lot more suceptible to dust than the earlier D30 & D60 which had an AA filter a bit away form the sensor.

Sparky191 · 26 Sep 2006 at 18:33

rpstewart said:
I think you'll see good sales of most of these if the prices are right but I think they'll be one off sales of a body and maybe a couple of lenses only. The thing that worries me is that you could get trapped with a sizeable investment in glass that can't be reused if the camera system fails to keep up - the prime example is Sigma, the SD10 has been discontinued with no sign of a replacement.

Theres some truth to that. I think theres a lot of people (like myself) keen amateurs we'll say. Who have a Point and Shoot digital, and want to upgrade to get better quality and more control. Perhaps like me they have an old SLR aswell, which they find they don't use as much as their digital point and shoot. Torn between a Super Zoom and a DSLR. Most will be happy with the kits lenses, or at most one or two good lenses.

I look at the SuperZooms and find them all compromised in some way that doesn't appeal to me. But the idea of a DSLR kit with a couple of ok lenses, dust protection, and anti shake seems to be a package that would do me for a long time. So on that basis, a limited range of lenses isn't the concern for me as it would be for someone more serious about it and who plan to slowly improve their kits over time.

So I guess that market would be looking at Finepix 9500, Canon 350/400D, D50 kit, DMC-FZ50, Sony A100 kit, Sony DSC-R1 etc.