Newcastle takeover???

Soldato
Joined
4 Jan 2011
Posts
24,435
Its a bit of a weird situation for the sane Newcastle fan, its super unlikely you walk away from supporting the club.
In the heat of the moment in games/trophies being won it will feel just as good as under anyone I imagine but overall it will be tainted in the near future (until enough time has past for it to be forgotten/'sports washing' is complete).

Those defending it are likely doing so to either cope with the inevitable of the above or just thick. I think its very hard to just be happy Ashley is gone and now the richest club whilst ignoring the rest.
 
Don
Joined
29 Jul 2006
Posts
6,339
Location
Newcastle, UK
Its a bit of a weird situation for the sane Newcastle fan, its super unlikely you walk away from supporting the club.
In the heat of the moment in games/trophies being won it will feel just as good as under anyone I imagine but overall it will be tainted in the near future (until enough time has past for it to be forgotten/'sports washing' is complete).

Those defending it are likely doing so to either cope with the inevitable of the above or just thick. I think its very hard to just be happy Ashley is gone and now the richest club whilst ignoring the rest.

I think a lot of supporters who are defensive are probably so because they're bearing the brunt of peoples disdain at the PL and the sale and are defending themselves for simply supporting a team in a negative light.

As a conflicted fan myself, I'm looking forward to what the money will bring to the city but there is that niggle at the back of my mind.

I do feel most fans for other clubs would be in the same boat and if they looked deep down, would probably react in similar ways (not so much the tea towel stuff, but there would be some) if they were bought by PIF.
 
Soldato
Joined
25 Jan 2013
Posts
4,145
It's Church for most supporters, especially up North and I get defending your clubs best interests, but the two aren't the same. @montymint is probably correct in that a lot of us would react in a similar fashion, but I'd like to think the majority wouldn't ever defend the practices themselves.



Great article that with some excellent counters.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
4 Jan 2011
Posts
24,435
I think a lot of supporters who are defensive are probably so because they're bearing the brunt of peoples disdain at the PL and the sale and are defending themselves for simply supporting a team in a negative light.

As a conflicted fan myself, I'm looking forward to what the money will bring to the city but there is that niggle at the back of my mind.

I do feel most fans for other clubs would be in the same boat and if they looked deep down, would probably react in similar ways (not so much the tea towel stuff, but there would be some) if they were bought by PIF.

I don't think the top ones true, there are even a few on here defending it despite no one speaking down to them/negatively prior to their defensive posturing around the issue.

Second one is a good point, commonly hear Manchester has benefitted greatly from the investment and I'm sure like much of the North of England some investment will go a long way. Unfortunately like you say it'll be forever tainted/in the back of the mind but moment to moment its net again.

100%, very few fan bases would reject, doubt Liverpool fans would have coming from h&g.
 
Associate
Joined
20 Aug 2021
Posts
1,377
Location
Krypton
100%, very few fan bases would reject, doubt Liverpool fans would have coming from h&g.

I remember when Peter Lim and his consortium (rumoured to be the Chinese government) were sniffing around the same time fsg were buying us, the vast majority of us didn't want them anywhere near the club.
 
Don
Joined
9 Jun 2004
Posts
42,455
I think a lot of supporters who are defensive are probably so because they're bearing the brunt of peoples disdain at the PL and the sale and are defending themselves for simply supporting a team in a negative light.

As a conflicted fan myself, I'm looking forward to what the money will bring to the city but there is that niggle at the back of my mind.

I do feel most fans for other clubs would be in the same boat and if they looked deep down, would probably react in similar ways (not so much the tea towel stuff, but there would be some) if they were bought by PIF.
I agree with the comment about it being the same had it been most other clubs but not the first line here. I've not seen one Newcastle supporter attacked or criticised for supporting their side. The only time I've seen people take exception to what Newcastle supporters have said or done has been when they've tried to defend the indefensible.

If you're choosing to accept or overlook the issues around Saudi ownership because you want a better Newcastle then no problem. As you say, most other football supporters would do the same and until you're put in that situation it's difficult to say what any individual would do or feel but just don't blindly defend the Saudi's. There is no defence for luring a journalist into the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to torture him, murder him and cut him into small pieces, nor is there for the torture, imprisonment and killings of womens rights activists and or anybody that opposes MBS. As soon as you do you become a bit of a **** and you're allowing your football club to be used as nothing more than a political tool.
I remember when Peter Lim and his consortium (Chinese government) were sniffing around the same time fsg were buying us, the vast majority of us didn't want them anywhere near the club.
Peter Lim is from Singapore and from what I remember, there was very little objection to him - all we heard was that he and FSG had bid but the board accepted FSG's.

There has been on and off reports of Chinese state backed investments into Liverpool for well over 10 years though but nothing has ever really got off the ground. I was actually thinking about it the other day and how I would feel if it happened today because at the time it never even crossed my mind. Sports washing wasn't a thing back then. Similarly when Dubai were trying to buy us in 2007 and again in 2008/2009 - human rights issues never really got brought up, I assume because nobody ever thought that a state was buying a football club for those purposes.

There was the failed Shinawatra investment into Liverpool in 2004(?). That deal did fall through due to big objections both in Liverpool but also in Thailand. Liverpool and Everton, due to the politics of the City are maybe two exceptions and that proved to be the case back then but I'm less sure whether the same would have happened in the twitter fan era. Many of these fans would torture their own parents for a few extra million in the transfer kitty.
 
Don
Joined
29 Jul 2006
Posts
6,339
Location
Newcastle, UK
I don't think the top ones true, there are even a few on here defending it despite no one speaking down to them/negatively prior to their defensive posturing around the issue.

I agree with the comment about it being the same had it been most other clubs but not the first line here. I've not seen one Newcastle supporter attacked or criticised for supporting their side. The only time I've seen people take exception to what Newcastle supporters have said or done has been when they've tried to defend the indefensible.

I guess my first point was a lot of twitter that I've personally seen where you get opposing fans (some) trying the wind up routes - but that's part of the parcel of SM I guess. I'm not saying it applies here because you're both right in that people aren't being raked over the coals for support a club with ties to the Saudi government.

To be 100% clear, I don't approve of the Saudi government's track record on human rights but do accept that it's the lot my club are now in with and I'm going to concentrate on the football side of things for the most part, since there's very little I can do about the ownership. I certainly won't be wearing tea towels, waiving flags etc etc.

There are things that have happened since the take over that I don't like the taste of, such as the convenient blocks on sponsorship when other clubs are using their ties for deals that can't be broken. I understand and accept the need to make sure things are done right fiscally. However I loathe the hypocrisy of rich clubs who've been enjoying the commercial gap widening from themselves are the rest of the world for years all of a sudden taking issue with an outsider trying to join in. But in my mind, that's a separate issue / topic from the HR issue surrounding PIF and NUFC and fans can and should defend their club on that ground.
 
Associate
Joined
20 Aug 2021
Posts
1,377
Location
Krypton
Peter Lim is from Singapore and from what I remember, there was very little objection to him - all we heard was that he and FSG had bid but the board accepted FSG's.

There has been on and off reports of Chinese state backed investments into Liverpool for well over 10 years though but nothing has ever really got off the ground. I was actually thinking about it the other day and how I would feel if it happened today because at the time it never even crossed my mind. Sports washing wasn't a thing back then. Similarly when Dubai were trying to buy us in 2007 and again in 2008/2009 - human rights issues never really got brought up, I assume because nobody ever thought that a state was buying a football club for those purposes.

There was the failed Shinawatra investment into Liverpool in 2004(?). That deal did fall through due to big objections both in Liverpool but also in Thailand. Liverpool and Everton, due to the politics of the City are maybe two exceptions and that proved to be the case back then but I'm less sure whether the same would have happened in the twitter fan era. Many of these fans would torture their own parents for a few extra million in the transfer kitty.
Yeah my bad, I meant the guy that made his fortune from gambling, Kenny hwang was it?
 
Don
Joined
9 Jun 2004
Posts
42,455
Yeah my bad, I meant the guy that made his fortune from gambling, Kenny hwang was it?
At the same time as the FSG takeover & Lim bid this Kenny Huang guy was supposed to have made an offer, claiming backing from a Chinese state backed investment vehicle but it turned out that he was full of ****. There have been more reliable reports since then regarding Chinese investment, coincidentally involving Amanda Staveley. She was trying to broker a deal for Everbright (very similar to China that PIF is to Saudi) but FSG were only willing to discuss a minority investment rather than a full takeover. It was actually reported in the Athletic recently that when the proposal was made, Henry and FSG refused to deal with Staveley and would only talk directly to Everbright.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
5,536
Location
Newcastle
It's a tough one but I don't see the majority of Newcastle supporters actively defending the Saudi state. I'm a season ticket holder, and I'll be honest a Saudi flag being waved in front of the Sir Bobby statue at the ground before the Tottenham game sat really uncomfortably with me. I'd kind of tuned it out up until then, including the tea towels. But the flag of the state, responsible for all of the reprehensible actions covered in the media (Yemen, murder of journalists, capital punishment, treatment of women etc. etc.) was the symbol that really provoked a negative emotional response and rammed home the implications.

I can just about mentally compartmentalise the PIF owning Newcastle, if it means the North East generally, and Newcastle specifically benefits from foreign investment, similar to how the area surrounding City has. But it's really complicated. I can't walk away from my season ticket as I bought 3 this year, for myself, my brother and my mother. My mother gave up her season ticket in '83 when she had me and I always promised her I'd buy her one when she retired, which was this summer. That's how sports washing works I guess, supporters of the club are emotionally invested and it's not as easy to walk away\boycott.
 
Top