NHS opt out of your personal data being sold to commercial institution

dbmzk1 · 13 May 2014 at 20:34

Don't have a problem with things like this at all. I don't get why people are so paranoid these days.

abbotsmike · 13 May 2014 at 20:39

Not paranoia, more cautiousness. It's because more and more personal data is being shared with more and more people. It's not necessarily wrong, but it does need to be handled in the right way.

Sliver · 13 May 2014 at 20:39

dbmzk1 said:
Don't have a problem with things like this at all. I don't get why people are so paranoid these days.

I think a lot of it is ignorance. Everyone has an opinion but most don't have the facts.

Tefal · 13 May 2014 at 20:52

estebanrey said:
Precisely, but from some of the replies above it seems some people put the improbable risk of a few targeted ads spoiling their face book page above medical research that can help all mankind.

or massively increased mortgage, finance, life insurance or health insurance costs?

NHS sharing information is still one of the reasons many gay or bi people have to tell the GUM clinic not to share any information with their GP as when that information is passed on to banks or financial institutions it puts your costs up significantly as even if you're a nice monogamous married gay couple you're dreamed high risk.

Robosapien · 13 May 2014 at 20:56

Zethor said:
Illuminati.

LOL.

I know of an example involving Rightmove providing their database of property particulars to the VOA (government agency responsible for council tax).

They ran a pretty big risk imo, Joe public doesn't seem to care though.

abbotsmike · 13 May 2014 at 20:57

Sliver said:
I think a lot of it is ignorance. Everyone has an opinion but most don't have the facts.

At least one of the facts is that there have been a whole load of high profile data leaks from organisations that should have known better. Credit card numbers or medical information, it's still got a value to someone and it's still just entries on a database. The potential for that sort of leak is where my problem lies.

Xordium · 13 May 2014 at 20:58

Furthering Tefals point you have to add into the mix familial disease, consanguinity and a variety of lifestyle factors and you can see why people are cautious. Especially when the benefit is unproven, the NHS has history of failure when it comes to such projects, there is little money in the pot anyway. Hardly best bang for the buck is it. However, it will save a lot of time at the multibillion corporations that government members have their fingers in and who advise them.

I can see it now a thread on here with someone being refused a mortgage based upon this sort of information.

Robosapien · 13 May 2014 at 21:01

dbmzk1 said:
Don't have a problem with things like this at all. I don't get why people are so paranoid these days.

Because in the end it almost always inevitably gets used to screw you over one way or another. Pretty obvious really. Or do you trust everyone? We live in a world of unscrupulous deceit, manipulation and treachery when it comes to making money - your wellbeing is neglible beyond keeping you productive.

Sliver · 13 May 2014 at 21:02

abbotsmike said:
At least one of the facts is that there have been a whole load of high profile data leaks from organisations that should have known better. Credit card numbers or medical information, it's still got a value to someone and it's still just entries on a database. The potential for that sort of leak is where my problem lies.

Don't worry about it. It's like worrying about an asteroid strike. You'll just get wound up over nothing.

Bash · 13 May 2014 at 21:02

Tefal said:
or massively increased mortgage, finance, life insurance or health insurance costs?

NHS sharing information is still one of the reasons many gay or bi people have to tell the GUM clinic not to share any information with their GP as when that information is passed on to banks or financial institutions it puts your costs up significantly as even if you're a nice monogamous married gay couple you're dreamed high risk.

Good post. Reading through the thread I would like to add that the data is not anonymous. Data can never be anonymised if it can be engineered back to form an identity. Your NHS number is an identifier that is included within this data and therefore will never be totally anonymous.

To some, this data being made public could be have a huge impact on their lives.

How easily we seem to be giving up our information, identities and ultimately our trust to these organisations. Trust! lol..... with data thats a joke these days.

estebanrey · 13 May 2014 at 21:11

abbotsmike said:
If an insurance company can see a trend in certain demographics/areas, you can guarantee they'll start to charge extra to provide cover for those conditions!

You don't think your postcode already affects your health insurance quote then? If they do it with cars, I'm sure they do it with health as well.

Robosapien · 13 May 2014 at 21:11

The NHS is hilarious - name, DOB and address - and you've passed the security test.

SexyGreyFox · 13 May 2014 at 21:50

Bash said:
Your NHS number is an identifier that is included within this data and therefore will never be totally anonymous.

Today I made a spreadsheet of 33 patients with all types of data just from NHS Numbers BUT I DO HAVE PERMISSIONS TO DO IT.
You can only get the information if you have the relevant software and the permissions on the right server.
It's laughable to think an insurance company could do this.

Bash · 13 May 2014 at 22:06

Dimple said:
Today I made a spreadsheet of 33 patients with all types of data just from NHS Numbers BUT I DO HAVE PERMISSIONS TO DO IT.
You can only get the information if you have the relevant software and the permissions on the right server.
It's laughable to think an insurance company could do this.

I agree. Can't see an insurance company doing it either. They would just buy the information from someone that did do it.

sports_brah · 13 May 2014 at 22:13

It's ridiculous. This falls firmly into the realms of big data, and the idea that it will not be leaked, breached or manipulated into a useable format is insanity. It's too valuable to the right people.

SexyGreyFox · 13 May 2014 at 22:31

Bash said:
I agree. Can't see an insurance company doing it either. They would just buy the information from someone that did do it.

However who would do it?
The information isn't in one place with an easy printout and just getting some main details of one patient takes a while.
Example:
The boss may ask me for details on a patient such as Name, Address, DOB, DOD, Co-Morbidities, Inpatient, Outpatient and A&E Attendances and just getting that information and presenting it to him could take between 5 to 10 minutes because it is either cut & pasting or screen grabs.
Software used would be Dashboard/CIS or IPM or even Dr Watson.
To then get online Medical Records can take an age using software such as iCris, Medisec, IPM, ICM and EDMS. Last week I left my PC on from 5pm to 8:30am and it had just compiled some of the records for one patient because there was that many.

Bash · 13 May 2014 at 22:46

Dimple said:
However who would do it?

I don't want to sound like a troll but you surely jest? Where have you been the last few years? :rolleyes:

O happy days! Who needs hackers when the people you trust can't be trusted. Genius.....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/0...e_after_hospital_data_reach_marketers_google/

sports_brah · 13 May 2014 at 22:50

Dimple said:
However who would do it?
The information isn't in one place with an easy printout and just getting some main details of one patient takes a while.
Example:
The boss may ask me for details on a patient such as Name, Address, DOB, DOD, Co-Morbidities, Inpatient, Outpatient and A&E Attendances and just getting that information and presenting it to him could take between 5 to 10 minutes because it is either cut & pasting or screen grabs.
Software used would be Dashboard/CIS or IPM or even Dr Watson.
To then get online Medical Records can take an age using software such as iCris, Medisec, IPM, ICM and EDMS. Last week I left my PC on from 5pm to 8:30am and it had just compiled some of the records for one patient because there was that many.

That's an archaic view. The advances in technology, specifically in analytical processing and data storage means that such data warehousing makes it far more accessible and easily manipulated.

Just because your ****** nhs computer sytems are rubbish, doesn't mean an enterprise level structure couldn't make very good use of it with some nifty algorithms, hardware and incentive.

And with the richness of such data, there is a very clear incentive.

SexyGreyFox · 13 May 2014 at 22:51

Bash said:
I don't want to sound like a troll but you surely jest? Where have you been the last few years?

You obviously didn't read what you linked to under the UPDATE heading:

PA Consulting has contacted The Reg and told us the data it holds "does not contain patient name, address, NHS number or Date of Birth"

I don't do childish rolleyes

SexyGreyFox · 13 May 2014 at 23:01

sports_brah said:
That's an archaic view. The advances in technology, specifically in analytical processing and data storage means that such data warehousing makes it far more accessible and easily manipulated.

Just because your ****** nhs computer sytems are rubbish, doesn't mean an enterprise level structure couldn't make very good use of it with some nifty algorithms, hardware and incentive.

And with the richness of such data, there is a very clear incentive.

Apparently (so I'm told) our Trust has excellent online software programs compared to many other Trusts. In another thread one of our members who is an A&E Clinician couldn't believe the data I can get my hands on compared to him in his Trust.
I have access to around 20 different medical programs that all show completely different information and they don't hand it over very easily. I honestly wouldn't be worried about the harvesting of patient data on a huge scale.

I'd love some enterprise level structure come in and put all these programs together in one easy package because it would make my life a lot easier.

NHS opt out of your personal data being sold to commercial institution

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