No wonder CompSci grads are unemployed ?

[lixxus]

Well according to theregister.co.uk and a guy that goes by the name of Dominic Connor.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11/01/comp_sci_graduates_need_more_skills/


some interesting quotes:

Everyone in India, from waiters to religious gurus, knows Java, and so do all recent western CompSci grads.

Java fanboys tell me that it is "easier" than C++, and seem miffed when I agree in a sneering way. A CompSci grad is supposed to be able to do difficult things that arts grads simply can’t understand.

I like the bit highlighted in bold this guy will offended anyone, even faculty of Art grads.


I love how the article oozes a condescending vibe.

 

[lixxus]

Does this moron realise that people qualify as accountants with non related degree disciplines.

In his eyes arts grads are special needs.

 

[Vonhelmet]

Does this moron realise that people qualify as accountants with non related degree disciplines.

In his eyes arts grads are special needs.

Not really. A computer scientist should be able to do computer science-y things that graduates in other disciplines don't understand, in the same way that a maths or physics grad could talk day and night about something that the comp sci student wouldn't understand.

Anyway. Java is widely taught, but isn't used nearly as much as C++ or C in the "real world". That's the point of the article.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Does this moron realise that people qualify as accountants with non related degree disciplines.

In his eyes arts grads are special needs.

Don't know what you're talking about, the guys spot on, people doing COMPUTER SCIENCE shouldn't be learning a relatively basic language that art majors are learning.

If you want to learn to build websites and do some design/media stuff, go do that, learn java. If you want to go work for microsoft/one of the other big software companies doing complex stuff you USED to be able to go and do Computer science and learn the science part to a massively higher degree than a bog standard course which isn't based around programming. Unfortunately so many idiots end up in comp sci courses they are being dumbed down, everyone who wants to build a website now goes and does comp sci. Ok not everyone, but enough that Comp Sci isn't a patch on what it used to be.

I dropped out of my course because I passed the foundation year(didn't do a-levels for various health reasons) as a mature student without going to lectures or doing any work from November onwards, we did a Java programming module amongst a few other things, it was pathetic, we then did the exactly same level of programming but actually, shockingly with some c+ thrown in, however a the basic level of programming we were doing, it was basically the same stuff with very similar coding as the foundation year. I again went to almost no classes and passed the year, I also passed a couple modules in year two, while taking online multiple choice answer questions from my room, took a couple coming back drunk after a night out realising it had to be done by 9am or something.

Frankly you shouldn't be able to do that, I hated every second of it, was the most pathetically easy and therefore unmotivating thing I've done in my life, the fact that half the class struggled so badly was a sign of the truly awful teaching(mostly lectures repeated year on year and put online with no reason to go into class at all.

 

[dowie]

Does this moron realise that people qualify as accountants with non related degree disciplines.

In his eyes arts grads are special needs.

What has any of this got to do with accountancy?

Also the guy who wrote that article is perhaps blunt and rude but isn't exactly lacking in intelligence.

 

[GeX]

I was taught Java in a fundamentals modules, it was a nice 'easy' intro into OO. We then progressed and learnt c/c++. If you stop at Java, then yeah - you'll struggle to get a job. (i'm currently a c# developer)

 

[GeX]

Don't know what you're talking about, the guys spot on, people doing COMPUTER SCIENCE shouldn't be learning a relatively basic language that art majors are learning.

If you want to learn to build websites and do some design/media stuff, go do that, learn java. If you want to go work for microsoft/one of the other big software companies doing complex stuff you USED to be able to go and do Computer science and learn the science part to a massively higher degree than a bog standard course which isn't based around programming. Unfortunately so many idiots end up in comp sci courses they are being dumbed down, everyone who wants to build a website now goes and does comp sci. Ok not everyone, but enough that Comp Sci isn't a patch on what it used to be.

I dropped out of my course because I passed the foundation year(didn't do a-levels for various health reasons) as a mature student without going to lectures or doing any work from November onwards, we did a Java programming module amongst a few other things, it was pathetic, we then did the exactly same level of programming but actually, shockingly with some c+ thrown in, however a the basic level of programming we were doing, it was basically the same stuff with very similar coding as the foundation year. I again went to almost no classes and passed the year, I also passed a couple modules in year two, while taking online multiple choice answer questions from my room, took a couple coming back drunk after a night out realising it had to be done by 9am or something.

Frankly you shouldn't be able to do that, I hated every second of it, was the most pathetically easy and therefore unmotivating thing I've done in my life, the fact that half the class struggled so badly was a sign of the truly awful teaching(mostly lectures repeated year on year and put online with no reason to go into class at all.

sounds like you should've researched the course / uni a bit more ?

 

[RDM]

As a first year language Java is a pretty good choice. Especially for those with no coding experience (or no OOP experience).

 

[Fr0dders]

some of his points seem valid

if he's come across Computer Science graduates that only know java and cant even put an error free CV together he's got a right to wonder how they're going to get a job.

He's got a point - java isnt exactly something difficult that can be used to distinguish them from others. As he says - everybody can do java.

 

[stockhausen]

sounds like you should've researched the course / uni a bit more ?

Had he done that, perhaps he wouldn't be CompSci - Failed

 

[Lightnix]

This paragraph makes me happy:

As far as I can tell, only Queen Mary College has undergrads bright enough not to be scared of C++, and even then less than half take the option. Kings College students/victims told me that they do operating system internals in Java, and no they weren’t joking. That pitiful process is actually better than the average CS undergrad, who seems to regard the insides of operating systems with the same superstitious fear experienced by greens over nuclear energy.

Since I've applied to QMUL. It's actually my 'backup plan' university (other than clearing of course, but let's hope it doesn't come to that!).

Also, that paragraph's attack on King's still nothing compared to some lower level universities (such as City, who I visited a while back) who openly skirt around the teaching of the important mathematical and theoretical aspects of computer science (i.e. the bits that make it computer science rather than IT with some programming thrown in) in favour of what in their view is "what you need in the workplace" (what I imagine will probably be worthless in the workplace in a few years, thanks to lacking a fundamental understanding in whatever area they're choosing to skirt around stuff in).

Also, DM, where did you study so I can avoid it?

 

[Pho]

We got thrown straight into C++ in our first year. I think we only did one Java module throughout the whole of Uni but lots involving C++ which I'm very thankful of.

- Pho, Employed Comp. Sci. graduate .

 

[deusexlumina]

Some of what he says seems correct. Then again compsci is just one of hundreds of degrees that has been dumbed down to accommodate the flurry of people going to uni for the sake of it/because it "sounds cool".

I know someone who got onto a geography course at uni after getting a D in geography at a level. Pathetic.

 

[Stretch]

some of his points seem valid

if he's come across Computer Science graduates that only know java and cant even put an error free CV together he's got a right to wonder how they're going to get a job.

He's got a point - java isnt exactly something difficult that can be used to distinguish them from others. As he says - everybody can do java.

There's nothing particularly difficult about any language, and if there is it's poorly designed.

Writing good software isn't about syntax, it about understanding requirements and writing something useful to fit those requirements in a way that's efficient, easy to maintain, extend and scale.

People that say everyone knows Java or [insert language] are missing the point entirely.

 

[MikeHunt79]

We got thrown straight into C++ in our first year. I think we only did one Java module throughout the whole of Uni but lots involving C++ which I'm very thankful of.

- Pho, Employed Comp. Sci. graduate .

I can see where you are coming from but don't write off Java completely, I'm sure it would be easier to learn C++ once you have a reasonable grasp of Java compared to trying to learn C++ with no previous programming experience...

That said, stuff like pointers is not really featured in Java so it won't be a cakewalk...

 

[ordinaryjoe]

Because of similar experiences I was surprised to read that only 17 per cent of CompSci grads from last year haven’t got a job yet.

83% of graduates getting a job within a few months... That's not that bad is it?

 

[Lightnix]

There's nothing particularly difficult about any language, and if there is it's poorly designed.

Writing good software isn't about syntax, it about understanding requirements and writing something useful to fit those requirements in a way that's efficient, easy to maintain, extend and scale.

People that say everyone knows Java or [insert language] are missing the point entirely.

To an extent I agree, but I feel a good computer science course should teach numerous programming languages not because those languages used, but because of the paradigms that they take advantage of are useful to know and might be used in the future. Somebody who has only ever used OOP languages and can design programs amazingly because of the features such languages offer is probably going to be a **** Haskell programmer even if they know the syntax inside out, for example. Then suddenly all the good jobs start requiring everybody knows F#, and learning to use Haskell at university turns out to be useful all of a sudden because of the similarities those languages share.

 

[Pho]

I can see where you are coming from but don't write off Java completely, I'm sure it would be easier to learn C++ once you have a reasonable grasp of Java compared to trying to learn C++ with no previous programming experience...

That said, stuff like pointers is not really featured in Java so it won't be a cakewalk...

I agree. I guess the problem is people who think Java is the only language worth using when clearly different languages suit different needs and deadlines.

I have no problems with Java I'm just glad we had to use several different languages rather than some courses which make you stick to one language throughout.

I mostly write C# now which is practically Java syntax anyway . I still find C++ scary, I should really brush up on it one day.

 

[tntcoder]

I completly agree with the article.

Syllabuses at many universities are becoming increasingly poor and high level. Things like algorithm efficiency and design are really core CS topics and need to be covered in-depth. I also seriously thing programming in assembly should be taught way before high level stuff like Java to give a deeper understanding of how everything works. This would be more hardcore, but it would filter out a lot of people along for an easy ride.

Basically Computer Science is merging with Software Engineering

 

[dowie]

There's nothing particularly difficult about any language, and if there is it's poorly designed.

Writing good software isn't about syntax, it about understanding requirements and writing something useful to fit those requirements in a way that's efficient, easy to maintain, extend and scale.

People that say everyone knows Java or [insert language] are missing the point entirely.

Someone with a good grasp of C++ can pick up Java fairly easily.

The same can't necessarily be said when it comes to someone with a good grasp of Java picking up C++.

Incidentally the person who wrote that article probably knows more about C++ than anyone on these forums. I very much doubt that he is the one missing the point.

Java is fairly easy to learn and is ubiquitous whereas the best paid field for programmers to work in requires C++. Some of the best paid jobs within that field can be sourced via the author of that article.