Number of Previous Owners

[Glaucus]

So how many £10k cars have you looked at with a view to buying and how many of them with 5 owners over 4 years were immaculate then?

Nice snob comment there fox. None. well not in an age bracket you would find acceptable. But It is checks that are important, not owners. How many immaculate cars have you missed out on as you didn't even do some digging around. Oh you don;t now as you rule them out straight away.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Nice snob comment there fox. None. well not in an age bracket you would find acceptable. But It is checks that are important, not owners.

I just KNEW you'd take that line if I continued to try and explain what I meant. You cannot apply the purchasing criteria you'd use on a 500 quid car to one costing many times more, it just doesn't work. It's just totally different - the condition is totally different, the risk is totally different, etc etc. By the time a car reaches a value of 600 quid it doesn't matter if its had 1 owner or 10, it's likely going to look like a 600 quid car.

This is why you are finding that number of owners makes no difference. Because it doesn't.

Elsewhere in the market it isn't the case - I'm really not sure how else to phrase it?

1 car kept by the same guy for 5 years can age very differently to one which gets passed around to someone else every 6 months and ends up with 10 owners over the same period of time. It's not perfect - you could find the 1 owner car was owned by 1 idiot - but nothing ever is perfect, is it?

How many immaculate cars have you missed out on as you didn't even do some digging around. Oh you don;t now as you rule them out straight away.

I am happy to concede I will have missed the odd minter but its nothing compared to the many bad ones I've avoided.

I want to buy the car that's so damn good the owner couldnt bear to part with it until he had to.

 

[BigglesPiP]

Don't write the car off your search for this, go and look at it. Carefully, as you should with any 2nd hand car. I think I'm the 9th owner of my nearly 10 year old car (I did know a large portion of its history though).

What if 1/5 car owners don't attend to servicing? A 10 year old 2 owner car may have spent 5 years without anyone lifting the bonnet, whereas a 7 owner car could have only spent less than 1 year with such an idiot. And the physical act of selling a car doesn't add any wear/damage, in fact the 1st thing I did when I bought my Alfa was service it.

The only owners you need to beware of are:
- Professional Mechanics, do not buy an oldish car from a mechanic, it's either rotting somewhere hidden or there is a bodge somewhere he doesn't want to risk. Mechanics keep 5 to 15ish year old cars until they have a reason to get rid.
- DIY mechanics, the sort who are a bit dim, it's probably full of mistakes.
- Someone selling a car because they need the money, servicing is likely to have been skimped on.
- Anyone with a dog, you won't smell it till it rains, then boy will you smell it.

 

[daveydave]

Go have a look but it could well be a few people have bought it and A) their circumstances have changed or B) they couldn't afford to run it.

Its a bit iffy, but go check it out, usual stuff match panels, welds etc etc.

 

[[TW]Fox]

they couldn't afford to run it.

My point exactly. And you'd want to own a car where at least one of the owners couldnt afford to run it?

 

[Glaucus]

I just KNEW you'd take that line if I continued to try and explain what I meant. You cannot apply the purchasing criteria you'd use on a 500 quid car to one costing many times more, it just doesn't work. It's just totally different - the condition is totally different, the risk is totally different, etc etc. By the time a car reaches a value of 600 quid it doesn't matter if its had 1 owner or 10, it's likely going to look like a 600 quid car.
.

I know exactly how I would buy expensive cars and £600 why £600.

This is why you are finding that number of owners makes no difference. Because it doesn't.

It makes no difference because it doesn't (apart from resale value), if a car is in mint condition it is in mint condition.

Elsewhere in the market it isn't the case - I'm really not sure how else to phrase it?
.

You can't because it's an invalid argument, you just said you probably missed some bargain mint ones. That's it thats the entire point. One owner could have wrecked the car, or you could have had 6 car enthusiasts who looked after it and took it to main dealers every other month to have even eh smallest thing sorted out.

if you want to use it as a guide so you do less ravelling looking then fine, but in reality number of drivers has little effect on what the cars condition is.

My point exactly. And you'd want to own a car where at least one of the owners couldn't afford to run it?

or they might be rich, get bored and change every 6months. You don;t know with out doing some digging. The difference Is I would spend some time doing such leg work, you wouldn't as it's a waste of time. yet you could be missing bargains.

 

[PMKeates]

It's all pretty obvious, really.

1. Number of owners is not directly proportional to car condition. A car with 10 owners can be in better condition than one with 1 owner, if that owner happened to be Waynetta Slob.
2. Number of owners has an influence on car condition. A 10 year old car with it's first owner is far more likely to be in better condition than a 10 year old car on it's 10th owner.

The owner who bought it for £20,000 10 years ago is having it serviced at the main dealer despite it now being worth £300. The 10th owner who bought it for £300 isn't having it serviced at all.

There is no debate necessary. It is reality.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I know exactly how I would buy expensive cars and £600 why £600.

Yea everyone says that. Then you realise that when you actually get to the point where you are buying a car that costs more than a months wages things start to matter that you'd overlook, priorities change and the way you buy it changes. The way I bought my Xantia was very different to the way I've bought more expensive cars.

It makes no difference because it doesn't

Fantastic reasoning there, no doubt supported by your wealth of experience.

if a car is in mint condition it is in mint condition.

So you find 10 cars to view. 10 completely different areas of the country. 3 are 1 owner cars, 3 have 3 owners and 4 have 10 owners. You'll drive and see everyone one?

You can't because it's an invalid argument, you just said you probably missed some bargain mint ones. That's it thats the entire point. One owner could have wrecked the car, or you could have had 6 car enthusiasts who looked after it and took it to main dealers every other month to have even eh smallest thing sorted out.

It's all about probability. Every time I went to see a many owner car, it was nowhere near as nice as the tidy 1 owner ones.

but in reality number of drivers has little effect on what the cars condition is.

On what basis do you make this statement?

or they might be rich, get bored and change every 6months. You don;t know with out doing some digging. The difference Is I would spend some time doing such leg work, you wouldn't as it's a waste of time. yet you could be missing bargains.

I'd rather miss bargains than inherit problems.

 

[Peerzy]

More owners over short period of time usually means a car in worse condition.

Fox might be too anal on the whole thing. I wouldn't turn down a car with 2 previous owners over 5 years but he is right in saying it really does help cut down the crap cars.

 

[Glaucus]

Yea everyone says that. Then you realise that when you actually get to the point where you are buying a car that costs more than a months wages things start to matter that you'd overlook, priorities change and the way you buy it changes. The way I bought my Xantia was very different to the way I've bought more expensive cars.

Except I have looked at resonably priced cars before ~10k

I'd rather miss bargains than inherit problems.

That's you personally.

And no you don't have to go look at all them, it usually starts with a phone call and a lot of questions.

 

[BigglesPiP]

I'd rather miss bargains than inherit problems.

I relish bargains, my 1st car cost £0. The 2nd was £100, together with the 3rd, which was £80. So who cares that the head gasket failed on both of these next 2, even if we paid the main dealer price of £300 to mend this we're still £600 up (low mileage hatchbacks), but the HGF repair cost us £50 a time (£30ish for the gasket kit, £20 for the head skimming), so we're £850 up.

The Alfa was not a bargain, this is because when I bought it, I needed a car (and a flat the other side of the country) inside of 2 weeks, so I paid market value to get one.

You only really get a bargain when you either work in the industry, or keep an eye open permanently, they find you.

 

[Rich_L]

What if it gets spruced up and checked out before each sale, in which case ten owners in ten years is a refresh and full check-up every year

 

[miniyazz]

I know exactly how I would buy expensive cars and £600 why £600.

It makes no difference because it doesn't (apart from resale value), if a car is in mint condition it is in mint condition.

You can't because it's an invalid argument, you just said you probably missed some bargain mint ones. That's it thats the entire point. One owner could have wrecked the car, or you could have had 6 car enthusiasts who looked after it and took it to main dealers every other month to have even eh smallest thing sorted out.

if you want to use it as a guide so you do less ravelling looking then fine, but in reality number of drivers has little effect on what the cars condition is.

or they might be rich, get bored and change every 6months. You don;t know with out doing some digging. The difference Is I would spend some time doing such leg work, you wouldn't as it's a waste of time. yet you could be missing bargains.

It's a screening test, like women over 35 are offered screening by CVS/amniocentesis for Down's syndrome babies. You don't routinely offer that to women under 35 because the risks outweigh the benefits. In Fox's case, the risk of it being a dud car (and therefore having paid >£50 travel + time for nothing) outweighs the benefits of possibly finding a minter, because the chances of it being a minter are significantly lower with lots of previous owners. Just as the chances of a woman in her 20s having a Down's syndrome baby is signficantly lower than that of a woman in her 40s - it's still possible, just less likely.

I relish bargains, my 1st car cost £0. The 2nd was £100, together with the 3rd, which was £80. So who cares that the head gasket failed on both of these next 2, even if we paid the main dealer price of £300 to mend this we're still £600 up (low mileage hatchbacks), but the HGF repair cost us £50 a time (£30ish for the gasket kit, £20 for the head skimming), so we're £850 up.

That sort of screwed up logic is the reasoning by which women buy £400 pairs of shoes that're reduced by 60% and then say they've saved £240.

 

[Fr0dders]

It's all pretty obvious, really.

1. Number of owners is not directly proportional to car condition. A car with 10 owners can be in better condition than one with 1 owner, if that owner happened to be Waynetta Slob.
2. Number of owners has an influence on car condition. A 10 year old car with it's first owner is far more likely to be in better condition than a 10 year old car on it's 10th owner.

The owner who bought it for £20,000 10 years ago is having it serviced at the main dealer despite it now being worth £300. The 10th owner who bought it for £300 isn't having it serviced at all.

There is no debate necessary. It is reality.

hit nail and head.

 

[daveydave]

My point exactly. And you'd want to own a car where at least one of the owners couldnt afford to run it?

In what sense? I meant they may have go for something that was a bit juicier than they originally thought. I didn't mean in relations to breakdowns.

Is that what you meant?

 

[Joshy]

The only owners you need to beware of are:
- Professional Mechanics, do not buy an oldish car from a mechanic, it's either rotting somewhere hidden or there is a bodge somewhere he doesn't want to risk. Mechanics keep 5 to 15ish year old cars until they have a reason to get rid.

Sorry, but I've never, ever, EVER heard that one before... Ever. Most mechanics (sorry, technicians) I work with either completely hate cars, will buy something modern and dull, then run it into the ground until it is time to scrap it . Or you have the ones that still like cars, will buy something interesting, keep it immaculately maintained and sell it on in a few months/couple of years and repeat the cycle.

The last thing 99% of mechanics don't want to spend their spare time doing is diagnosing and fixing faults for free. With access to workshop facilities, discounted parts and an extensive knowledge of repairing/maintaining cars, there isn't an excuse for a professional not to look after their own vehicle!

As far as I know, my Job hasn't done anything but help a sale (but then again, all of the cars I've sold have been for spares and repairs! )

 

[BigglesPiP]

Sorry, but I've never, ever, EVER heard that one before... Ever. Most mechanics (sorry, technicians) I work with either completely hate cars, will buy something modern and dull, then run it into the ground until it is time to scrap it . Or you have the ones that still like cars, will buy something interesting, keep it immaculately maintained and sell it on in a few months/couple of years and repeat the cycle.

The last thing 99% of mechanics don't want to spend their spare time doing is diagnosing and fixing faults for free. With access to workshop facilities, discounted parts and an extensive knowledge of repairing/maintaining cars, there isn't an excuse for a professional not to look after their own vehicle!

As far as I know, my Job hasn't done anything but help a sale (but then again, all of the cars I've sold have been for spares and repairs! )

2 mechanics at home, nether lift the bonnet on their own car until something is wrong (actually the car crashing brother will lift the bonnet to clean things with a toothbrush and paint the lettering). The last thing a mechanic wants to do when he gets home is more mechanicing on his own car. And they will sell a car when those inner wings start to go crusty. Also they do their own MOT, if you see what I mean.

That sort of screwed up logic is the reasoning by which women buy £400 pairs of shoes that're reduced by 60% and then say they've saved £240.

Not really, unless the woman then sells the shoes at retail price, keeps a pair for herself, and says she's earned £220.

 

[Jez]

It's all pretty obvious, really.

1. Number of owners is not directly proportional to car condition. A car with 10 owners can be in better condition than one with 1 owner, if that owner happened to be Waynetta Slob.
2. Number of owners has an influence on car condition. A 10 year old car with it's first owner is far more likely to be in better condition than a 10 year old car on it's 10th owner.

The owner who bought it for £20,000 10 years ago is having it serviced at the main dealer despite it now being worth £300. The 10th owner who bought it for £300 isn't having it serviced at all.

There is no debate necessary. It is reality.

Nail+Head.

What a silly argument this is, Fox is totally correct.

I know this to be the case as fact when it comes to high end Merc's (Ive been looking at CL500/600's recently with the view to retiring the S-class, priced at around £10k-20k). One owner cars, still kept in the same garage from new, at the house of the owner who paid in some cases upwards of 6 figures for it, still treat them like 6 figure cars, their condition is immaculate, their 4 figure per service FMSH is immaculate down to bulb changes being documented by the same main dealer as from new.

Multiple owner examples start getting indi's into the history, little bits of work have been DIY sorted and as such the cars have less new parts. I have even turned up to one locally where the owner was parking on the bloody street, with it getting wet at night and picking up associated dirt and body imperfections.

No comparison.

 

[DJDaz]

i've recently bought a 10 year old car with 6 previous owners so not all that different from the OP and it's still runs and idles nicely, even with 97k on the clock so i can't see why how many owners it's had can make it a bad car

 

[Fr0dders]

you'll get stick for that post jez

Heaven forbid. "HE LET IT GET WET ???"


"NEXT YOU'LL BE TELLING ME THE HOSUE WAS RENTED !!!"