NVIDIA ‘Ampere’ 8nm Graphics Cards

[Calin Banc]

Hang on a minute. Your telling me AMD have a GPU more powerful than a 2080 and efficient enough to fit in a console and yet they have nothing to show for it in the discrete GPU market?

Something isnt adding up here.

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/xfx-radeon-rx-5700-xt-thicc-iii-ultra/8.html

The standard 5700xt is right about equal to 2080 in BF5 in 4k while is beating the 2080 in lower resolutions. Is not that hard to believe that in making a game around an exact piece of hardware it will allow the developer to make the most of that GPU as it knows exactly how to push the settings and make the right adjustments for the best performance. Also the power is not that high and if you consider that it will be an improved micro architecture, then I'd say anything is possible.

 

[aoaaron]

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/xfx-radeon-rx-5700-xt-thicc-iii-ultra/8.html

The standard 5700xt is right about equal to 2080 in BF5 in 4k while is beating the 2080 in lower resolutions. Is not that hard to believe that in making a game around an exact piece of hardware it will allow the developer to make the most of that GPU as it knows exactly how to push the settings and make the right adjustments for the best performance. Also the power is not that high and if you consider that it will be an improved micro architecture, then I'd say anything is possible.

I’d venture against it having the raw power but with the right optimisation will indeed get some great results.
Still not convinced it will be pumping out native 4k all the time though

 

[D.P.]

ps5 clock speeds have varied greatly on the various submitted engineering boxes.
We've seen 1000mhz and all the way up to 2000mhz on the ps5's gpu.

And a couple weeks ago we had a windows central leak said the next gen console gpu core has 8 more CUs than 5700xt. So that's 48 CUs at up to 2000mhz on engineering samples.

and a couple months back one of the engineering samples was spotted on the online database of the 3D Mark Fire strike benchmark, scoring the same as a RTX2080

If these are engineering sampels then their clock speed is irrelevent.

There might be some tweak in clock pseed of 100-200MHz to try and fine a sweet spot in power, voltage, frequency and yields but that is about it.

Clock speeds also likely wont be pushed high because tend to require more power. a 48CU GPU at 1700MHz might be about the max.


Console have a much tighter power limit than PCs and there really isn;t anything that would make a console use less power than a PC for the same performance and components.

 

[D.P.]

No news on Ampere? Thought there must have been a leak or something due to the flurry of recent posts.

Turns out you’re all talking about AMD’s GPU in the next gen of consoles instead!

From recent releases, Nvidia simply don;t leak any information. You wont hear much until about a month before released. The GDC announcement rumours makes a lot of sense

 

[TNA]

..the only thing that will change at this stage in the game, are clock speeds on the CPU & GPU. Too late to change anything at the hardware level.

..and clock speeds are only likely to vary by a 100-200Mhz (up or down).

Yeah I get that, but what some people do not seem to get is these engineering samples will be of a newer architecture, not to mention will be developed on a better process, N7+ I think it is called.

Newer architecture + newer fabrication process means 2080 performance is easily achievable.

 

[Cooper]

Newer architecture + newer fabrication process means 2080 performance is easily achievable.

I'd be disapointed if it was anything less than 2080 level performance.

Besides, 2080 level performance in a console is very different to 2080 performance in a PC. When you throw console sized development teams at a problem, many times the size of PC develpment teams, with vastly bigger budgets, optimising code 'to the metal', magical things happen out of all proportion to the power of the components they're working with.

 

[Grim5]

I'd be disapointed if it was anything less than 2080 level performance.

Besides, 2080 level performance in a console is very different to 2080 performance in a PC. When you throw console sized development teams at a problem, many times the size of PC develpment teams, with vastly bigger budgets, optimising code 'to the metal', magical things happen out of all proportion to the power of the components they're working with.

unfortunately this mythical console optimization doesn't hold up in the eta of x86 consoles - maybe it was a real thing with custom designs but now they are just PCs and run like a PC. Digital foundry and other have tested it multiple times and can re produce console performance with the exact equivalent hardware on a PC. It's not like a Xbox One X is somehow performing better than a RX580 cause it's not. However what we have seen at least from Sony is their exclusive games are sometimes able to lead innovation- like Uncharted 4 which to this day has the best facial animations ever - but it has little to do with performance and more to do with the developer spending countless hours in the mocap studio. Sony developers have big budgets it's not nothing to do with the console.

 

[BigBANGtheory]

From recent releases, Nvidia simply don;t leak any information. You wont hear much until about a month before released. The GDC announcement rumours makes a lot of sense

Which is a result of them playing the market pricing and demand to maximum levels, its all about protecting price and profit now from its leading position.

 

[bru]

So if you believe the hype, in one fell swoop AMD's new console APU will make their entire line of discrete GPU's obsolete, as it will be faster than anything else they have right now.

Ill believe it when I see it.

 

[AMDPower]

so what are your predictions for ampere release date?

from AMD Navi thread get the impression its going to be june/july or soon there after.

assuming nvidia don't want to give AMD a chance to say we toppled their 2080Ti and I am also very sure we won't see 2080Ti super now.

both companies will want to respond to each other. I think this year we might see good competition from AMD and hopeful less crazy prices.

Someone offered me a rtx titan at good price but I might wait now and not bother waste the money.

 

[KillBoY_UK]

First, the Xbox X is estimated to have nearly twice the volume of the Xbox one X. So that's a huge boost for any airflow problems.
Second, it's going to based on RDNA2 which is supposedly going to have a lot of efficiency improvements
Third, the SoC is going to be manufactured on the 7nm+ EUV process which again means more performance and power efficiency.

Very wishful thinking.

So you think after years of being behind in releases AMD are going to release 2 new architecture generations with in 18 months. Jump from the power efficiency of 16nm Pascal with there current 7nm Navi to RNDA 2 on 7nm (+ or not) or something with better efficiency than even say 12nm Turing ?

The only time in the past decade I can remember where we have had massive efficiency gains on the same process with no other special technologies was Kepler to Maxwell.

 

[D.P.]

Which is a result of them playing the market pricing and demand to maximum levels, its all about protecting price and profit now from its leading position.

ehh, no company ever leaks information on anupcoming product unless they have terrible sales

 

[D.P.]

unfortunately this mythical console optimization doesn't hold up in the eta of x86 consoles - maybe it was a real thing with custom designs but now they are just PCs and run like a PC. Digital foundry and other have tested it multiple times and can re produce console performance with the exact equivalent hardware on a PC. It's not like a Xbox One X is somehow performing better than a RX580 cause it's not. However what we have seen at least from Sony is their exclusive games are sometimes able to lead innovation- like Uncharted 4 which to this day has the best facial animations ever - but it has little to do with performance and more to do with the developer spending countless hours in the mocap studio. Sony developers have big budgets it's not nothing to do with the console.

Exactly. game devs can try and optimize around a single platform which can help a little but then it is not like the console GPUs don't exist in PCs. There are a few edge cases such as memory but console tend to have more limitations than benefits.

The other thing is game engine technology is so advanced now very few development teams have the knowledge or resources to do micro level optimizations around specific hardware

 

[hyperseven]

Saw this the other day and the specs were guessed from the leaked rear ports;

arent they those fake renders of the rear ports that AMD used in their keynote?

 

[JediFragger]

arent they those fake renders or the rear ports that AMD used in their keynote?

Probably, I'm just pointing towards the video.

 

[melmac]

Very wishful thinking.

So you think after years of being behind in releases AMD are going to release 2 new architecture generations with in 18 months. Jump from the power efficiency of 16nm Pascal with there current 7nm Navi to RNDA 2 on 7nm (+ or not) or something with better efficiency than even say 12nm Turing ?

The only time in the past decade I can remember where we have had massive efficiency gains on the same process with no other special technologies was Kepler to Maxwell.

Yes, that's what they are doing. The new Xbox is going to have Variable Rate shading and Ray Tracing, those are not features of RDNA but are features that AMD say are coming to RDNA2. We know this, it was part of the Xbox X announcement from Microsoft.

The new consoles are coming on a new process(7nm Euv+) because RDNA2 is optimised for that process.

And lastly you forget that this is a custom SoC designed for consoles, It's going to be more power efficient than a discrete card for a PC would be for the same performance.

 

[melmac]

So if you believe the hype, in one fell swoop AMD's new console APU will make their entire line of discrete GPU's obsolete, as it will be faster than anything else they have right now.

Ill believe it when I see it.

That's a strange statement Bru, Consoles aren't out for another 11 months. There are going to be new GPUs out by then. But, even if they were out tomorrow, your statement would still be odd.The Xbox one X was released and was a little more powerful than the Rx 580. Yet didn't make the 1060, 1050ti, Rx 580, etc obsolete. Both Nvidia and AMD are still releasing GPUs that are less powerful than the one in the Xbox One X.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Who (who knows anything about PC hardware, costs and heat output) really believes this?

Knows anything about hardware, costs and heat output? The current consoles use 200W+, a 2080gtx is a 12nm card that uses what ~215W... how much would that card use if it was moved to 7nm, 140-150W, with 50W left for a slightly underclocked Zen 2 8 core. It's a 545mm^2 die, on 7nm it would be 280mm^2 maybe. How does all this preclude a 7nm, maybe even 7nm + card with similar power/performance levels being used in a console? When you go from 545mm^2 down to half the die size you reduce die cost by significantly more than 2x due to yields and when you cut out a significant portion of the wafer profit as you sell to the console maker for less than you'd sell to an OEM, and when you cut out all the profits for the OEM, yeah, cost wouldn't be an issue either.

 

[bru]

That's a strange statement Bru, Consoles aren't out for another 11 months. There are going to be new GPUs out by then. But, even if they were out tomorrow, your statement would still be odd.The Xbox one X was released and was a little more powerful than the Rx 580. Yet didn't make the 1060, 1050ti, Rx 580, etc obsolete. Both Nvidia and AMD are still releasing GPUs that are less powerful than the one in the Xbox One X.

You are quite right and my comment was a little in jest, but realistically their will always be a need for discrete GPU's even of the lower end variety.

Personally I'd love the new Xbox to be as powerful as the rumours suggest, Ill probably buy one anyway.

RDNA has been a brilliant new architecture for AMD, it has allowed the 5700xt to get pretty close to the 2070 super, but it has taken it out of it's sweet spot efficiency wise, but it's performance is there. Now moving on to the next size GPU up and keeping the power consumption down, well if AMD can do it then hats off to them, but putting all that power into an APU along with an 8 core Ryzen CPU. hell maybe they can, as the new laptop parts have shown you can have a high performance 8 core APU in a 15w or 45w package, so maybe it is possible.

If they can do it, then good for them. It could certainly shake things up a bit, especially if the rumour of a windows mode is true.

 

[Grim5]

^^ Indeed. AMD has just launched 15w 16 thread zen 3 APUs. The same could power a console, even 45w potentially. And we know from benchmarks, the 45w part is faster than a i7 9700k in multi thread loads - so assuming games make use of those 16 threads - a 45w APU can be faster than a desktop 9700k at gaming, that's insanse!

Still leaving 200 to 250w for the GPU - plenty for a high end gpu. You take that 5700xt, produce it on 7nm+ using RDNA2 architecture, use the efficiency gains to add a few extra CU's and voila you have over RTX2080 performance.

Where it gets really interesting. Let's say we make it on 7nm+ with RDNA2, but don't add any extra CU's - so we have the 5700xt with whatever architecture IPC gains only. Gaining nice efficiency in the process - so now we have a 170w GPU. This architecture uses Adaptive Shading - if every game supports it, that instantly boosts the performance by 15% - now once again we can make these performance claims against PC's.