Having such a boner for this tech it should be you who is enlightening us, not asking othersOkokok I got a little mixed up!!
uLED is yeaaaaars away from mainstream though right?
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NVIDIA ‘Ampere’ 8nm Graphics Cards
- Thread starter LoadsaMoney
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If that's true there will have to be a correction in Nvidia's insane prices. I for one won't be spending £700-£1k on a new cardJason Schreier said he was told 1) Next gen consoles are above a RTX2080 and 2) PS5 will have PS5 only games on launch that won't run on PS4.
if I can get a whole console for half that price. Better than 2080 performance and console optimisations will mean a VERY capable
system at a reasonable price. 2080 will have to come down to £300 or thereabouts I'd guess. Hopefully finally with the consoles AMD will be able to stick it to the greedy pieces of excrement that are Nvidia! Fingers crossed!
To a lot of people, that kind of performance just seems unbelievable for a console. I think it's because people forgot how massive the GPU price hikes were initially, and now after so long they have become the new baseline for perception. Rather than a 2080 being idiotically overpriced. And of course, people don't understand that Sony & MS don't pay card prices, they pay wafer prices, so the "2080 is $800, a $500 console can never have a GPU that powerful" argument is completely misguided.
My only sadness is that 2020 is gonna be a boring year for hardware overall. Most things will only come out during Holiday season or 1H 2021. Well, that and the fact that GPUs will not change pricing too much. If the monitor market taught me anything it was that people on PC are very stupid with money. If the market can bear it, then it will. $1500 3080 ti, why not? I'd never bet against Nvidia's marketing.
My only sadness is that 2020 is gonna be a boring year for hardware overall. Most things will only come out during Holiday season or 1H 2021. Well, that and the fact that GPUs will not change pricing too much. If the monitor market taught me anything it was that people on PC are very stupid with money. If the market can bear it, then it will. $1500 3080 ti, why not? I'd never bet against Nvidia's marketing.
Well, Dr. Su in her introduction speech at CES several days ago said that 2020 is expected to be an even stronger (better) year for AMD, full with new, interesting products, than 2019.
Navi 20, Zen 3, Sony PS5, MS XBX.
Iit isn't such a surprise that the consoles GPU is as powerful or more powerful than RTX 2080.
A direct die shrink of RTX 2080 chip would make it roughly 250-300 mm^2. And this is on N7 (N7+) with a planned N5 transition soon afterwards.
The question is if this type of graphics performance in the console is from a separate GPU chiplet, not from an APU? ?
I recently watched a interesting video that went over how uLED (MicroLED) panels are grown in the factory on wafers.
The process is a lot more complicated than OLED and involves a fair bit of error correction to make all 8 million LED's work.
The best uLED manufacturing fab's as of today still have enough margin of error that for each 4k uLED panel they grow, they end up with 40,000 dead LED's. You can't ship a TV with 40 thousand dead LED lights, each one has to be manually replaced and it adds several hours to the production cost. Currently it takes 6 hours on the production line to make a single uLED panel.
Due to all the technical factors, current wafer cost for a small uLED panel is $5000 usd, the same wafer cost for an OLED is under $500usd (and OLED production is already considered expensive, uLED production is mindblowing)
The process is a lot more complicated than OLED and involves a fair bit of error correction to make all 8 million LED's work.
The best uLED manufacturing fab's as of today still have enough margin of error that for each 4k uLED panel they grow, they end up with 40,000 dead LED's. You can't ship a TV with 40 thousand dead LED lights, each one has to be manually replaced and it adds several hours to the production cost. Currently it takes 6 hours on the production line to make a single uLED panel.
Due to all the technical factors, current wafer cost for a small uLED panel is $5000 usd, the same wafer cost for an OLED is under $500usd (and OLED production is already considered expensive, uLED production is mindblowing)
Who (who knows anything about PC hardware, costs and heat output) really believes this?
The same crap is peddled with each console release. And even in the extremely unlikely scenario it was as powerful as a £600 RTX2080, well, an RTX 2080 can't do 4k smoothly in modern games (especially ray-traced) without turning down the details a lot.
Also, do you really believe that AMD, who currently lag behind in GPU tech, have made a discrete GPU more powerful than an Nvidia 2080 that can be put in a small console box and produced for £200-£300 or so without anyone hearing about it?
It makes little logical sense and when the specs are released we will see the real equivalence. Any further significant speed increases to augment the GPU to make it perform better will likely come from other factors like improved forms of CPU, RAM and cache/memory access etc which make it easier for developers to dedicate resources to graphics performance.
Okokok I got a little mixed up!!
uLED is yeaaaaars away from mainstream though right?
Define "years". It's a brand new cutting-edge tech that is hard to produce and costs a lot of money, so in a few years will be mainstream as they pile their resource and expertise into it.
For Samsung this is their defacto OLED TV destroyer, so they will do everything within their power to make it work.
Same story with any new manufacturing process of this nature... it's a bitch to start then they improve it.
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Don`t just wait it out. March time for news on new cards.
Soldato
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Hang on a minute. Your telling me AMD have a GPU more powerful than a 2080 and efficient enough to fit in a console and yet they have nothing to show for it in the discrete GPU market? 
Something isnt adding up here.
Something isnt adding up here.
Associate
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Who (who knows anything about PC hardware, costs and heat output) really believes this?
The same crap is peddled with each console release. And even in the extremely unlikely scenario it was as powerful as a £600 RTX2080, well, an RTX 2080 can't do 4k smoothly in modern games (especially ray-traced) without turning down the details a lot.
Also, do you really believe that AMD, who currently lag behind in GPU tech, have made a discrete GPU more powerful than an Nvidia 2080 that can be put in a small console box and produced for £200-£300 or so without anyone hearing about it?
It makes little logical sense and when the specs are released we will see the real equivalence. Any further significant speed increases to augment the GPU to make it perform better will likely come from other factors like improved forms of CPU, RAM and cache/memory access etc which make it easier for developers to dedicate resources to graphics performance.
It does sound like a fairy tale and until I see the actual results I will take the info with pinch of salt.
I think I remember Sony when they announced the PS3 were saying how the PS3 would be doing 1080p not sure if it was 30 or 60fps. Turned out 1080p just a few indy games and that was it. The gpu couldn't handle that. At best we got 720p 30fps.
Same story with original ps4 but at least they were a bit more modest with saying 1080p this time and not 4k. It finally managed to do 30fps at 1080p, and some games more. The ps4 pro is a great 1080p machine though but again they said its a 4k device, yes it can output at 4k but it cannot do 4k unless its some form of indy game.
I really want - and they kinda have to do it if they tout 4k and 8k support - to surpass 2080 levels of power because these devices need to last 5-6 years, and that would put some perspective on prices on the gpu desktop market.
As others mentioned though if they have such an ace up their sleeve why not release something similar as gpu card and wait it out. Surely it is not a confidentiallity thing were they have to wait till the consoles get released. One good reason for not doing anything proper yet for the gpu market is that they don't sell as well because nvidia always has a product to counter amd, while they have both console contracts which makes them some good sales from there anyway.
We shall see. The GPU market needs to drop in price it is getting ridiculous now. If you want to do 4k60fps ultra gaming you need to fork out 2080ti prices. What if you want 4k 144 then what? SLI and xfire not supported and thank god for that because people would have to sell their kidneys.
But you make it sound like the next gen consoles are out, but they won’t be for another 11 months man. That is a long time in the tech world. Who is to say they won’t have the said card out for the PC by then? 2080 performance in 2020 is not exactly something special is it? Consider it will be on a much better fabrication process that is meant to be much more efficient, so not exactly impossible.Hang on a minute. Your telling me AMD have a GPU more powerful than a 2080 and efficient enough to fit in a console and yet they have nothing to show for it in the discrete GPU market?
Something isnt adding up here.
Its quite possible if its RDNA2 based which is complete new architecture apparently. If new Navi is 20+% faster than 2080TI, the its possible they have made a chip which could output near 2080 levels of performance in quite a compact form factor but i would agree beating 2080 performance sounds like nonsense. I would say we are lucky to get a machine near 2070 level of performance.
Caporegime
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The console hardware will have been finished a while back and developers already have development machines, so the hardware exists and has for quite a while, It will be 2060s levels of performance i guess.
You sure that is not a small amount of early silicon of roughly what they expect rather than the full finished product? Consider it is easier to get either engineering or early samples but you need to wait for the fabrication process to get to a place where you get good enough yields before you can manufacture in high quantities.
Like I am sure Nvidia have the the 3080Ti right now and are working on the drivers, but until the fab process is ready to pump them out in large numbers then we will keep waiting. If they make it now on poorer yields, it will mean either less profit for them or it costing us more.
Just a guess anyways. I could be wrong.
Yes, so nothing special when you consider the much better fabrication processes available in 2020.
Hang on a minute. Your telling me AMD have a GPU more powerful than a 2080 and efficient enough to fit in a console and yet they have nothing to show for it in the discrete GPU market?
Something isnt adding up here.
The consoles aren't out until the end of this year. And AMD will be releasing a new line of GPUs before that and so will Nvidia.
2080 level of performance has been here since the 1080Ti was released.
The 2080 and 2070 Super are about equal in performance and the 5700XT is very close to the 2070 Super.
Microsoft and Sony won't be paying retail prices.
So, yeah I can easily see the console GPU been more powerful than a 2080, they are almost there now with the 5700XT. In fact I would be very disappointed if it isn't more powerful than the 2080. Especially as there is the promise of Ray Tracing as well.
Engineering samples. Not the finished product.
..the only thing that will change at this stage in the game, are clock speeds on the CPU & GPU. Too late to change anything at the hardware level.
..and clock speeds are only likely to vary by a 100-200Mhz (up or down).
Soldato
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Remember, it's all conjecture. No reason to pass it off as fact that we will get news in March.